Yes! We ARE going to Europa!

[Findthepin1]

Planetary protection protocols and policies apply to all missions that we send out into the solar system.

IMO the protocols need only apply to target objects at which life can survive, even dormant. an unmanned spacecraft purposed to dive into jupiter, for instance, would not need to be sterilized as any bacteria would be burned, melted, evaporated, and possibly plasmatized, in that order, when the probe does its thing. something like a europa lander, though, would need to follow the planetary protection protocols very well.

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100th post yay (or 101st whatevs)

Edited May 29, 2015 by Findthepin1
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[Nikolai]

And then we nonchalantly landed a hub-cap on Titan.

Huygens was a Category II mission, and as such, the risk of contamination was deemed insignificant.

[Mitchz95]

Jupiter's radiation, like the Van Allen belts, is mostly charged particles, which wouldn't be able to penetrate a few centimeters, let alone the several kilometers of ice that Europa is encased in.

This is probably a stupid question, but ... would a layer of water ice lining the inside of a ship be enough to protect the astronauts from radiation during, say, a trip to Mars?

[Hcube]

This is probably a stupid question, but ... would a layer of water ice lining the inside of a ship be enough to protect the astronauts from radiation during, say, a trip to Mars?

Water is an excellent radiation insulator, a few cm of liquid water would keep the astronauts safe. However the amount of water needed would be very massive and would take a huge amount of space. Frozen water expands so it would take even more

[Aanker]

As far as radiation goes (for longer, possibly manned trips), the suggestion has been made to use an artificial magnetic field to shield the craft akin to the sci fi deflector shields of sorts. The question is if the device powering and generating this 'shield' would be any lighter or simpler in design than just 'dumb' radiation blocking plates.

[Bill Phil]

As far as radiation goes (for longer, possibly manned trips), the suggestion has been made to use an artificial magnetic field to shield the craft akin to the sci fi deflector shields of sorts. The question is if the device powering and generating this 'shield' would be any lighter or simpler in design than just 'dumb' radiation blocking plates.

That would only shield against charged particles.

Then again, that's the type of radiation that makes up the Van Allen belts, so it's likely to be around Jupiter.

Barring that, it's much too complicated, and very likely to be pretty massive.

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This is probably a stupid question, but ... would a layer of water ice lining the inside of a ship be enough to protect the astronauts from radiation during, say, a trip to Mars?

Depends on how much ice.

But it needs to be kept cold, and is less dense than liquid water... Liquid water is probably a better choice, but it's pretty heavy stuff.

[Mitchz95]

Water is an excellent radiation insulator, a few cm of liquid water would keep the astronauts safe. However the amount of water needed would be very massive and would take a huge amount of space. Frozen water expands so it would take even more

But they need water for drinking and stuff anyway. Why not put it to use?

[Stargate525]

But they need water for drinking and stuff anyway. Why not put it to use?

Because you can't drink radioactive water? And you'll lose a ton of it to sublimation?

[SargeRho]

It doesn't really get radioactive. And you you don't lose any water to sublimation, since it's in a watertight container.

[Findthepin1]

thread wake up call

also the weight of the amount of water you need to shield yourself from radiation is much more than you could lift cheaply from earth. the empty container for the water might have almost as much effect depending on how much you have. every 7 cm of water cuts radiation by 50%. idk how much radiation is in space though, lots of factors, etc.

[Stargate525]

thread wake up call

also the weight of the amount of water you need to shield yourself from radiation is much more than you could lift cheaply from earth. the empty container for the water might have almost as much effect depending on how much you have. every 7 cm of water cuts radiation by 50%. idk how much radiation is in space though, lots of factors, etc.

The beautiful thing about water is that it's quite common outside of Earth's SOI. Since we're talking about grabbing asteroids and towing them into Earth's SOI as a possibility, there's no reason we couldn't snag an icy asteroid and use that water.

[vger]

The ESA just invested 400M on Ganymede, Callisto, and Europa, for a mission they hope will arrive at Jupiter in 2030.

http://sci.esa.int/juice/56165-preparing-to-build-esas-jupiter-mission/

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/europe-just-invested-over-380-154736702.html

[Scotius]

Exciting! Go ESA This mission will be as huge for Jupiter system as Cassini mission is for Saturn.

[Woksaus]

The ESA just invested 400M on Ganymede, Callisto, and Europa, for a mission they hope will arrive at Jupiter in 2030.

http://sci.esa.int/juice/56165-preparing-to-build-esas-jupiter-mission/

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/europe-just-invested-over-380-154736702.html

Hahaha, loving the acronym "JUICE", who came up with that stuff? So ESA awarded a prize of 400M dollar to a joint venture with Airbus, but this number seems a lot smaller than the budget allocation from NASA for their Europa mission. I assume Airbus will pour in a lot of money (great advertisement if their mission succeeds), but what's their overall budget?

Also, I can imagine both NASA and ESA to both send a lander to Europa and have it all devolve into an extraterrestrial version of Robot Wars on the moon's surface.

[Exoscientist]

The New Horizons mission to Pluto further confirms the great interest the public has for planetary missions. The Mars Curiosity mission got over a billion hits to the NASA web page over a year. And New Horizons mission web page got 10 million hits on July 14th alone.

A lander mission to Europa to explore the subsurface ocean could result in the most revolutionary scientific discovery in human history: the discovery of life on another world. Such a discovery would dwarf even the Apollo missions in importance.

Then it is notable that following the commercial space approach such a mission could be privately financed at the few hundred million dollars range. This would be low enough considering the great interest such a mission would get that it could even be profitable from advertising.

Then I have changed my sig file to indicate such a revolutionary mission could be accomplished at such low cost and in a near time frame.

Bob Clark

[TrainEngie]

Getting hyped so much for the Europa mission! Hope they can give an estimated time of launch/arrival.

[Dkmdlb]

Getting hyped so much for the Europa mission! Hope they can give an estimated time of launch/arrival.

What mission in particular are you talking about, there?

[TrainEngie]

What mission in particular are you talking about, there?

Doesn't matter what mission, as long as it's headed for Europa. It will be a big science plus.

[Kryten]

Doesn't matter what mission, as long as it's headed for Europa. It will be a big science plus.

ESA JUICE mission (some Europa flybys before spending most mission in Ganymede orbit): launch in June 2022, arrive at Jupiter system in 2030

NASA Europa Mission (dedicated Europa mission with 45 flybys in nominal science mission): launch no earlier than 2023, likely 2025, arrival in 2 years with SLS launch or 6.5 with Atlas V (LV TBD).

[Camacha]

Hahaha, loving the acronym "JUICE", who came up with that stuff? So ESA awarded a prize of 400M dollar to a joint venture with Airbus, but this number seems a lot smaller than the budget allocation from NASA for their Europa mission.

While NASA budget tends to be bigger at times, it also seems to be a lot more fickle. One moment you are fully funded, the next moment (read: government/administration/president/...) you lose your funding and program. It seems ESA gets a smaller, but more stable flow of money.

[Kryten]

ESA nominal planetary mission budgets don't cover instruments (provided by universities or national space programs instead), but usually cover launch costs, while NASA nominal budgets include instrumentation cost but not launch cost, so they're difficult to compare. Particularly as this specific contract doesn't include launch cost either.

[Kibble]

ESA JUICE mission (some Europa flybys before spending most mission in Ganymede orbit)

Hey AFAIK that's the first time a spacecraft will orbit the satellite of another planet! Awesome~

[Thomassino]

We could possibly send a small nuclear reactor on Europa's surface to melt down into subsurface ocean and deploy something like a submarine to explore it. If some people weren't against nuclear stuff in space

[kiwi1960]

OK..... firstly.... where did you get this "WE" from? Are you going? no! Am I going, no!

Is the probe going.... why, yes, it is going!

Please, when it is really going to be you and me... give me a call, but please, don't get my hopes up like that again for nothing.

[Thomassino]

"WE" represents the humanity and our effort to go there via space probe.