[1.0.x] Heat Management Development - 1.0.4 Beta version available

[Randazzo]

As the title implies, this will be the development thread for Heat Management. Any versions located in this thread can be considered incomplete and likely to change, and I personally would advise against using them in any important save you might have.

The upcoming release (v0.24) now includes a multi-node heatsink which could use some rigorous testing. To get around the inability to properly stack things below a part with multiple mounts, the heatsink has it's own interstage fairing to which 2.5m parts (or whatever you care to stick on it) can attach. It functions like any engine fairing and will automatically show up when you connect something to the bottom node. The height is fixed and designed for the LV-N.

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This version also contains a fix for the funky radiator panel animation, and should correct the snapping during retracting.

Version 0.24 Alpha - DOWNLOAD - Not compatible with previous zip, will break saves.

To-Do:

1. Create 3.75 multi-node heatsink (4? 6? 8? Would like some input on this) - Done 5/29, 4 nodes was max
   
2. Optimize memory load (call up a single texture instead of having multiple copies) - Done 5/29
   

Known Issues: ?

Go forth and break things! (If I don't break them for you...)

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Edited June 27, 2015 by Randazzo

[Eleven]

Downloaded. I'll certainly check it out. Was right in the middle of a mission when I found your release thread, I'll just go straight to trying out these

[Randazzo]

3.75 multi-node part is in. Dropbox download updated, and it WILL break saves using the previous version. I made a naming error in the 2.5m config and corrected it.

I also remapped the connection nodes to not glow with heat.

[Eleven]

Love the decoupler shroud for the multi-node adapter. Stock needs this!

What's up with the texture being different on the radiators? Looks like it's supposed to be like this, but I'm not sure why:

[Randazzo]

Love the decoupler shroud for the multi-node adapter. Stock needs this!

What's up with the texture being different on the radiators? Looks like it's supposed to be like this, but I'm not sure why:

http://i.imgur.com/KfQp106.png

http://i.imgur.com/4gvdOCx.png

Hmm, I don't get that behavior and it's definitely not intended. My best guess is that a visual mod is having an effect on it somehow.

[Eleven]

You know what? I DDS'd those puppies. I bet dollars to donuts that's what did it...I'll check. I'm also going to do a long-burn and see how it handles it. I have a couple vessels I've built before Heat Management and I have a rough idea how long they can last without any help...I'll post more pics later.

(EDIT)

Re-installed without converting to DDS and it's normal...although I would suggest your final release be in DDS format, guys like me need to squeeze every bit of memory we can

Edited May 30, 2015 by Eleven

[Randazzo]

Converting the files to DDS via Paint.net as I usually do generated the same behavior. Converting them via DDS4KSP seems to be behaving properly.

Give these a try: https://www.dropbox.com/s/68vk377icww6eq2/raddds.zip?dl=0

[Eleven]

Converting the files to DDS via Paint.net as I usually do generated the same behavior. Converting them via DDS4KSP seems to be behaving properly.

Give these a try: https://www.dropbox.com/s/68vk377icww6eq2/raddds.zip?dl=0

I run Linux, it's not easy finding a converter to do it in batches. I've been using img2dds and it's cfg file for a while. It's still being somewhat updated so that's a good thing.

[Eleven]

Here are some shots of the multi-node heat sinks:

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They certainly work as intended. Those were just with stock nukes.

I couldn't come close to overheating these, I'll try to find a way though

[Randazzo]

Something I'm noticing is how poorly the heatsinks function without a reaction wheel between them and the fuel tanks. I've never actually used them without that buffer in place before. Some sort of insulation plate might be necessary.

[Eleven]

Something I'm noticing is how poorly the heatsinks function without a reaction wheel between them and the fuel tanks. I've never actually used them without that buffer in place before. Some sort of insulation plate might be necessary.

Yea if you notice on the craft with the 2.5m adapter, the command capsule remains cool. I used a cubic octagonal strut between the decoupler and heat shield. I started doing that only because the craft heating up would deplete the ablator in the heat shield

[Randazzo]

Insulator rings added, adapter shrouds tidied up. I think it's pretty much ready to go. Download link updated in OP.

[Randazzo]

I've been toying around with some different models for the heatsinks, looking for a way to visually differentiate them from the AHMS units without radically changing the design. I'd like to keep them structurally identical so the new models can be dropped in at some point without causing detonations all throughout the kerbol system as people load their save games. Since most heatsinks I've looked at have a fin design as opposed to coils, I've come up with this (This render is actually a poor representation):

It looks slightly more impressive in-game. I can't decide how I feel about the look, but using fins has allowed me to create a much cooler emissive animation. So, what I'm looking for at this point is feedback on the design itself. I know they function (though if you're feeling brave you can replace one of the heatsinks with the new model with a little .cfg edit and see if your ship blows up. Take pictures.), but I'm curious as to how the visual will be recieved.

Download: DROPBOX

This is also just a WIP model, I am aware the radiator mounting faces are flat and recessed at the moment. No warranties are given that this won't utterly destroy your ships and/or saves.

Good pep talk.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Randazzo

[Captain Sierra]

-cool snip-

Take a look at Roverdude's PDU (power distribution unit) models for kolonization. Your WIP reminds me of that and I imagine they're not that far off from what you're getting at.

[Shad0wCatcher]

The new model looks neat.

Function-wise: Not sure how much different the new model would act as opposed to the old based on the Stefan–Boltzmann law. Vertical spindle vs horizontal disc. Still a ton of radiators in a small amount of space. It would probably work better in atmosphere vs the horizontal stack due to better airflow dynamics. It might be better served enlarged for its stack-size (i.e. having the fins come out an extra size-step for its node size; 2.5 diameter for 1.25 node; 3.75 for 2.5; 5 for 3.75 etc).

[Randazzo]

Thanks for the replies! I've refined the model a bit, and also swapped in an alternative radiator emissive.

If anyone is interested, download is available on DROPBOX

[Megan]

I'm averse to part bloat, but I like what you've made so far and I really like the new model and emissive, so I voted for 2 and 3.

[smunisto]

Balance wise, I still haven't had the chance to test your mod and if we don't see some sort of head management in 1.0.3, I will surely keep using it.

I do have just one craft with a NERVA and 6 small radiator panels, but didn't have time to make comparison with and without the panels.

I do remember you had mentioned that some of the parts are/were overpowered at some point. Is this still a fact? I know defining "overpowered" is an extremely subjective term, but still? I am using DRE. Will have to test on some long interplanetary burn.

I do like the new model, but I think you have achieved all the hypothetical uses for your mod with the currently available parts. Adding more will only add clutter. Remodeling the stack radiators is a nice idea and I think part-wise it might be good to stop at that.

[Randazzo]

I do have just one craft with a NERVA and 6 small radiator panels, but didn't have time to make comparison with and without the panels.

Without a heatsink to soak the heat, the panels won't be able to keep the engine cool for long.

I do remember you had mentioned that some of the parts are/were overpowered at some point. Is this still a fact? I know defining "overpowered" is an extremely subjective term, but still? I am using DRE. Will have to test on some long interplanetary burn.

The benchmark I aimed for was the ability to complete a thirty-minute burn at full throttle. The chances you'll ever have to actually do that are pretty slim, I think, so that's why I said that. I have since toned down the AHMS units I was referring to. They should overheat now if you don't eventually run the pump, which sucks a lot of electricity. The only upside to this is that you technically shouldn't need the radiator panels, therefore saving a bit on weight.

[drdeath]

Please consider adding some simple MK2 parts and some atmosphere-capable radiators. OPT has some wonderful engines that unfortunately create tons of heat. I've tried to hack some parts myself but failed miserably.

[Randazzo]

With the impending release of 1.03 I'll have an excuse (and probably a need) to release another update. I figure this will be a good time to push the new models out.

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The Thermal Washers may or may not be stolen wagon wheels.

The heatsinks and thermal washers have identical dimensions to their original models and will (should) not blow up your ships when installing. The Interstage Decouplers are different, however. I imagine these are unlikely to be on any active ships beyond ascent, but if you do have them on an active ship, they may cause destruction. Radiator panels now have an active mode that is not quite as effective as an AHMS unit (or Nertea's panels, though they function on a slightly different mechanic), meant to provide a compromise solution to heat dissipation without requiring the massive electrical requirements of the AHMS. Using a Heatsink with Radiator panels is heavier but essentially free, whereas using an AHMS is lighter but you must power the unit. AHMS units have had their power draw tweaked as well.

You will need to delete any existing version of Heat Management to use the beta version: DOWNLOAD

Please consider adding some simple MK2 parts and some atmosphere-capable radiators. OPT has some wonderful engines that unfortunately create tons of heat. I've tried to hack some parts myself but failed miserably.

I haven't been able to quite figure out how to appropriately fit a heatsink into the Mk2 chassis, though I have a couple more ideas. My main concern is that it would be horrendously draggy, but we'll see.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Randazzo

[drdeath]

I haven't been able to quite figure out how to appropriately fit a heatsink into the Mk2 chassis, though I have a couple more ideas. My main concern is that it would be horrendously draggy, but we'll see.

Well the Mk2 parts have a circular core that could accomodate a slightly enlarged 1,25m heat sink. As for the radiators, here's some inspiration:

The first image shows some antennas from Backleg industries, the second some aerodynamic "chines" from Mk2 Stockalike Expansion.

[Randazzo]

Alright, give these a try. Be warned they are largely untested, I only tested their heat properties. I'm not sure how terribly draggy they will be, if at all.

Dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ghpc22wvxwbsbss/Mk2HeatManagement.zip?dl=0

Heatsink

I gave it the same module as an active radiator, you can set up action groups or just use the right-click menus to turn it on and off. There's no power draw or anything at the moment.

Insulator

To delay cooking your fuel/plane/kerbals.

[drdeath]

I'm happy to report that your concerns about excessive drag were as far as I can tell completely unfounded. The parts worked well except for the fact that the OPT Screamjet is able to overwhelm even the most potent heatsink eventually when it goes into hypersonic mode Ok, that isn't entirely fair to the heatsink because in absence of radiators every heatsink will pack it in sooner or later. By the way, that crazy monster is probably the best test tool for atmospheric heat dissipation you'll find. In full blow it creates almost as much heat as a nuc, but it has the thrust to run even a large spaceplane in atmosphere.

[Randazzo]

I'm happy to report that your concerns about excessive drag were as far as I can tell completely unfounded. The parts worked well except for the fact that the OPT Screamjet is able to overwhelm even the most potent heatsink eventually when it goes into hypersonic mode Ok, that isn't entirely fair to the heatsink because in absence of radiators every heatsink will pack it in sooner or later. By the way, that crazy monster is probably the best test tool for atmospheric heat dissipation you'll find. In full blow it creates almost as much heat as a nuc, but it has the thrust to run even a large spaceplane in atmosphere.

Did you activate the heat dissipation?

Also, does it feel overpowered or underpowered? I get the impression it mostly worked, but in what way does it need tweaking? How's the visual?