The K Prize - 100% reusable spaceplane to orbit and back

[boolybooly]

Thanks very much for the mission reports Foursh, If your fist mission was not convincing enough I think you did amazingly well to take the maximalist crown from Endless Waves' Prancing Pony, which was around the 300 mark, so congratulations on that. You said Space plane 3 could return from Minmus and I believe you, but the question I have to ask is whether Space plane 3 did actually return to Kerbin and land safely? If so you would deserve the ultimate K Prize exploration kudos of an Astrokerbal Distinction, not to be sneezed at I think you'd agree! In any case well done on completing the mission in such style and welcome to the K Prize party.

btw I am familiar with the plane eating habits of Kerbin terrain for sure and it looks like your screeny caught it just in time, before everything fell apart!

Archangel Lucifer, in answer to your question, no, I have kept it simple and the kudos goals are separate, I have enough trouble keeping up with those! Its just the kind of thing that deserves its own challenge thread really... why dont you make that?

Hooligan labs, I like your octopus a lot and thanks very much for a great video which gets to the point and shows off the capabilities of the very purposeful looking Cat Bus 4, but even as I am thanking you for that I am sorry to have to point out that both bottom engines were knocked off and exploded when you landed on Kerbin, luckily noone was injured however you must not have realised that brave attempt though it was it does break one of the cardinal rules of the K Prize that you have to land the craft intact to have a 100% reusable craft. Which leaves me with the troubling task of describing to the bouncers why someone of your undoubted standing in the community is on the gate crashers list! Sorry if you have a save you could reload and try the landing again. Your word will be good enough and then you would be entitled to the kudos your otherwise excellent piloting skills certainly deserve.

[The Destroyer]

Hmmm.... i may try this!

[Hooligan Labs]

Hooligan labs, I like your octopus a lot and thanks very much for a great video which gets to the point and shows off the capabilities of the very purposeful looking Cat Bus 4, but even as I am thanking you for that I am sorry to have to point out that both bottom engines were knocked off and exploded when you landed on Kerbin, luckily noone was injured however you must not have realised that brave attempt though it was it does break one of the cardinal rules of the K Prize that you have to land the craft intact to have a 100% reusable craft. Which leaves me with the troubling task of describing to the bouncers why someone of your undoubted standing in the community is on the gate crashers list! Sorry if you have a save you could reload and try the landing again. Your word will be good enough and then you would be entitled to the kudos your otherwise excellent piloting skills certainly deserve.

The collision detection of Tordial Aerospikes is silly! I re-read the rules and am sorry, would a quick loop of the planet and a landing be sufficient or should I redo the whole thing? Whatever gives 100% credit.

[Foursh]

You said Space plane 3 could return from Minmus and I believe you, but the question I have to ask is whether Space plane 3 did actually return to Kerbin and land safely?.

I'm afraid not. My reentry brought me down over the ocean and I didn't have enough fuel to reach land. I know it can be done though, so I might give it another shot.

[EndlessWaves]

Interesting engine choice on the Delta III with those four lonely jets, did you work it out beforehand or just tinker until you got something that worked?

[boolybooly]

The collision detection of Tordial Aerospikes is silly! I re-read the rules and am sorry, would a quick loop of the planet and a landing be sufficient or should I redo the whole thing? Whatever gives 100% credit.

Short answer = redo.

Long answer = Yes I agree there is a problem in v16 and its not just the aerospikes IMHO, landing anywhere on Kerbin outside the KSC is a nightmare and even on flat KSC terrain including the runway you can never quite be sure what will sink into the ground or when the collision surface for Kerbin which supports the wheels (sometimes) will be so far below the visible surface that it causes unavoidable collisions between the plane parts and the visible surface, which, despite the wheels ability to ignore it, causes other parts' destruction. Also I have noticed that craft tend to flex on touchdown.

So it is particularly tricky to land in v16, though the fuel bug which is also in v16 means it is easier to visit the moons. So a case of what we lose on the swings we gain on the roundabouts, what else can one do but try? (If one is in the mood...) It is possible to land most craft if one finds a nice spot and makes a very gentle final descent to touchdown, but on some craft the placement of the wheels and touchdown angle is also a factor in preventing accidental part removal!

IMHO the whole spaceplane thing is about having a reusable craft, so that is why landing intact is an important part of the challenge. What determines whether a potentially reusable craft and pilot deserve kudos is what the pilot can get the craft to do between making orbit and a successful return to Kerbin. Which means that while an orbit of Kerbin and safe landing will win the K Prize and place on the roll of honour, to win the highly sought after astrokerbal distinction requires a landing on either Mün or Minmus followed by an intact landing on Kerbin. I hope that seems fair. So if you lost the save then ... have another go! Its fun after all.

I'm afraid not. My reentry brought me down over the ocean and I didn't have enough fuel to reach land. I know it can be done though, so I might give it another shot.

Go for it!

Edited September 18, 2012 by boolybooly

[djnekkid]

and land on runway27 for some extra fun

[zekes]

Short answer = redo.

Long answer = Yes I agree there is a problem in v16 and its not just the aerospikes IMHO, landing anywhere on Kerbin outside the KSC is a nightmare and even on flat KSC terrain including the runway you can never quite be sure what will sink into the ground or when the collision surface for Kerbin which supports the wheels (sometimes) will be so far below the visible surface that it causes unavoidable collisions between the plane parts and the visible surface, which, despite the wheels ability to ignore it, causes other parts' destruction. Also I have noticed that craft tend to flex on touchdown.

So it is particularly tricky to land in v16, though the fuel bug which is also in v16 means it is easier to visit the moons. So a case of what we lose on the swings we gain on the roundabouts, what else can one do but try? (If one is in the mood...) It is possible to land most craft if one finds a nice spot and makes a very gentle final descent to touchdown, but on some craft the placement of the wheels and touchdown angle is also a factor in preventing accidental part removal!

IMHO the whole spaceplane thing is about having a reusable craft, so that is why landing intact is an important part of the challenge. What determines whether a potentially reusable craft and pilot deserve kudos is what the pilot can get the craft to do between making orbit and a successful return to Kerbin. Which means that while an orbit of Kerbin and safe landing will win the K Prize and place on the roll of honour, to win the highly sought after astrokerbal distinction requires a landing on either Mün or Minmus followed by an intact landing on Kerbin. I hope that seems fair. So if you lost the save then ... have another go! Its fun after all.

Go for it!

Ive been experimenting with this and found a way to protect the plane.... ill post when I get home.

[TheHengeProphet]

I've been trying my newest space plane, and it has been very difficult. Aside from that it flies like a pregnant pig, for some reason, the aeronautics package decides that the ship wants to fly backwards on re-entry and will give no mercy on its sudden kick into an uncontrollable spin. Re-entry without the SAS on is a nightmare, but possible, as I have landed twice, but not on KSP terrain, so my weels sank in and I lost a single control surface each time. Does anybody know a janky way to kill throttle on radial rockets? I would like to have my jet engine operatable on re-entry, while sharing a fuel pool.

I have attached an image and the craft file to show. Notes about flying it: Do not yaw in atmosphere; if trying to reach space, maintain a 45 degree angle until your apoapsis reaches 70,000 m; do not go below full thrust (that's cheating); you might want to use a joystick, because this thing is tempermental.

I will get this thing to land safely after an orbit!

[Suzaku]

So everyone ready for 0.17 achievements?

[TheHengeProphet]

This should be fun! Realising my ship is now obsolete, I'll try one last hoorah to make the voyage in 0.16 before moving over to 0.17!

[boolybooly]

I have managed to throw this little kite together and get it to orbit and land intact in v17. It is not as easy now the fuel bug is gone though getting this message onto the BB proved to be a bigger obstacle! All the downloading was taxing the servers. Seems fixed now though.

Edited September 21, 2012 by boolybooly

[Sean Mirrsen]

Okaaay... the NERVA engine should make deep-space flights easier in theory, but doing anything once there is going to be tricky...

edit: That's a very neat design, boolybooly. Simple, yet manages to look interesting.

[boolybooly]

Thanks Sean, flexes like a snake without fore and aft struts and kept on blowing the rear engine on take off and landing until they were added, creating the diamond shape which echos the wings, hence the name!

Must say the "center of" assists help a lot with design.

Agree NERVA presents many possibilities, plus it has a big radiohazard decal on the side, always looks good in screenies!

[bsalis]

So everyone ready for 0.17 achievements?

Yes please! But this thread or another? Also, with both 0.17 and the docking mod out now, there are so many possibilities. For example, my Grand Tour was quite an achievement, but cannot be classed the same as doing it without refueling.

It's almost like you need a seperate thread to work out exactly how to lay out SSTO achievements. At the least PM boolybooly.

[boolybooly]

It's almost like WE need a seperate thread to work out exactly how to lay out SSTO achievements. At the least PM boolybooly.

Fixed that for you, because you can join in too.

I have been trying to farm out the K Prize to someone else for about 10 pages now but noone seems to want to take the plunge.

We (or you) could set up completely separate challenge threads for v17 or we could try to share a spaceplane theme through separate but related threads or we could set up a thread which runs a kind of "school of spaceplane" set of challenges which start with the K Prize as the simplest get more advanced and each challenge admin taking a post at the beginning of the thread to admin the different missions.

[Gossy]

Hi guys! First Post, had to make something worthy, though it seems as though this thread is going to die?

Anyway, I present the Falcon - 3, because it took a few go's lol!

The Falcon 3 in the garage, it started life as the "Raptor" with a different command pod, but this one let you put the asas on the front, so it made the cut.

The Takeoff took a bit of concentration, with only just enough fuel for the trip there and back, but I made it in the end!

Only 83k's, but keeping it minimal, that's a good thing!

I only let it orbit twice, as it was getting late, and I'm still not exactly sure when the best time to de-orbit these things are, but I think I nailed it about the time I could see the lights in the distance!

Touchdown! nearly ran off the side of the runway under braking, and my landing gear went orange in the stage list, but Aldfry lived to see another day!

[TheHengeProphet]

I made it! My last hoorah of 0.16 was a success, discounting the re-load, due to the Kraken...

I present the flight of the pig!

http://imgur.com/a/UJ9NG#0

The O1-NKR (Orbital 1 - Newtonian Kerbal Rocket) really does fly like a pregnant pig at times. What looks like a recharge in fuel, along with a little fishiness with the flight log is attributable to re-load behaviour...

The craft file is presented in my previous post.

[bsalis]

I have been trying to farm out the K Prize to someone else for about 10 pages now but noone seems to want to take the plunge.

Sorry, that was not so clear to me. I will message Suzaku to start a 0.17 thread with my ideas on a more comprehensive commendation/achievements system. He seems a more keen and accomplished SSTO enthusiast.

[Gossy]

Hi Guys,

First post by me, thought it would be cool to make it a .17 Reusable space plane

I present the Falcon 3.

The Spacecraft in garage, ready to go!

After a nervous boost into space, I managed to level out in orbit with just enough fuel left to come back down again.

85k - ish orbit, not super circular, but not enough fuel to correct really.

I had a few orbits to take in the scenery, and to make sure I hit my retrograde mark, then burnt all the fuel remaining to line me up pretty much perfectly, seeing the side of the VAB twinkling in the dwindling light was awesome

Ahh, but perfect approaches may be let down by veering off track on the runway, still managed to stop just in time, so aldfry was happy

[Suzaku]

Sorry, that was not so clear to me. I will message Suzaku to start a 0.17 thread with my ideas on a more comprehensive commendation/achievements system. He seems a more keen and accomplished SSTO enthusiast.

The problem is, I'm am in between many games atm as well as managing a full guild in another game. I do not know if I'd be able to manage a thread that is as popular as the K-prize is.

I am willing to take control of it, but I would like some help with reviewing the posts.

Speaking of which, the K-15 and the exelion remake for .17 both made it into orbit. The exelion needs some modification to stabilize it due to the new fuel tank drain mechanic but should be making round trips to murs, minimus, and beyond soon.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Suzaku

[Archangel Lucifer]

Nice SSTO there boolybooly, it does look mighty fragile though. It's sad that everything from 0.16 became obsolete but it's the price of progress I guess. I've also come up with a couple of SSTO designs for 0.17 and while the debate rages as to whether or not a new thread should be started I might as well post it here.

In the hanger.

Takeoff.

Gaining some height.

Aerospike rocket engage!

Deactivating the jet engines.

In orbit.

Apopsis and Periapsis.

Deceleration burn.

Glide to KSC begins.

KSC sighted.

Landing approach begins.

Final adjustments.

Almost there.

Touchdown.

Mission results.

The pilot.

Coming up with an efficient design that can land on the Mun, Minmus and return in 0.17 is going to be a challenge.

[boolybooly]

Thanks Archangel, the struts help. Widomaker is an interesting design, I see you have optimised the forward control surfaces for weight and balanced lift characteristics and also used the avionics package for ASAS. Will have to try that. You have certainly won your wings in the v17 K Prize as well as an advanced pilot precision award.

Henge, your entry in 16 is updated to include the remarkable oinker! (O1-NKR) Which has a very innovative wing with a space stationy look to it. Only viable as an SSTO in 16 though I am guessing... unless you know different! Well done on what looks to have been a very tricky landing!!

Gossy thanks very much for your mission report for Falcon 3, a very worthwhile first post if I may say so. I see the dodgy BB caused you to double post, I can understand that having had a lot of trouble with it lately but again it seems better this morning, hope it stays that way. Falcon 3 has an impressive wing area neatly fitted around the essential engines. The fuel management is clearly efficient and allowed you to reach orbit with only 6x 400L tanks with plenty to spare. The return to Kerbin was very precise and the large wing allowed you to glide in to land unpowered on the KSC runway, quite a feat which fully deserves the honour of an advanced pilot precision award. Congratulations on completing the K Prize mission, welcome to the guest list (aka roll of honour).

Suzaku, I think its right to be cautious and if you have other commitments it is responsible not to take on more than you can comfortably handle. As I said, I am willing to carry on with the K Prize but am also willing to surrender it to a bigger project if that would be better for all concerned. I do think the people who want a challenge involving mods and cargo drops etc would enjoy having a dedicated challenge thread but obviously that depends on someone being willing to admin the thread. Though on the other hand one can organise challenges as self administering, if the rules detail requirements for proof, each report becomes self evident and noone need arbitrate but that means no roll of honour which is something I think people quite enjoy.

Edited September 22, 2012 by boolybooly

[Suzaku]

Suzaku, I think its right to be cautious and if you have other commitments it is responsible not to take on more than you can comfortably handle. As I said, I am willing to carry on with the K Prize but am also willing to surrender it to a bigger project if that would be better for all concerned. I do think the people who want a challenge involving mods and cargo drops etc would enjoy having a dedicated challenge thread but obviously that depends on someone being willing to admin the thread. Though on the other hand one can organise challenges as self administering, if the rules detail requirements for proof, each report becomes self evident and noone need arbitrate but that means no roll of honour which is something I think people quite enjoy.

I really like the way the K-prize is set up. If I were to assume control over it, I will keep the rules and the objectives the same (with the exception of adding the new planets and planetoids added for acomplishments of course).

Cargo Drops, Mods, except for Mechjeb will of course not be included, and an achievement for achieving orbit and landing without Mechjeb will be added as well. etc.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Suzaku

[TheHengeProphet]

Henge, your entry in 16 is updated to include the remarkable oinker! (O1-NKR) Which has a very innovative wing with a space stationy look to it. Only viable as an SSTO in 16 though I am guessing... unless you know different! Well done on what looks to have been a very tricky landing!!

Actually, I just tested to see if it can still get into space in 0.17 and it is more than capable, though I need to test if it is still capable of performing the K-Prize challenge! I was quite surprised. It is actually much more flyable now, which I assume is attributable to a change in fuel-drain, but landing is still a challenge (I have not succeeded on an empty tank), so I think I can do it without much, if any, modifications.