DevNotes: "something rather brilliant from RoverDude"

[Tankman101]

I come with proof.

Heck, they are hotter than the craft itself, and it takes the same amount of time to heat up.

[Captain Sierra]

I come with proof.

Heck, they are hotter than the craft itself, and it takes the same amount of time to heat up.

They're active radiators, not passive. They're actively pulling heat from whatever they're attached to. In your case the fatal flaw is that you have multiple parts, some of which have pathetic conduction rates (such as the radial attach port) between your heat source and radiators.

[RyanRising]

Yep, radiators (ISS style active as well as passive panels) were your new goodie. Was glad to be able to get it green lighted for inclusion in the patch

Called it! At least I said that's what was most likely.

No vessel-to-vessel fuel pipes yet, though.

[Tankman101]

They're active radiators, not passive. They're actively pulling heat from whatever they're attached to. In your case the fatal flaw is that you have multiple parts, some of which have pathetic conduction rates (such as the radial attach port) between your heat source and radiators.

I'm aware they are active, my statement is that they arn't actually pulling any real heat.

Also if the parts leading up to the radiators have pathetic conduction rates, how are the radiators so hot? How are they hotter than the rest of the main ship and yet the root part is the same temp as before?

It should be noted that the radiators heated up insanely quickly also, gonna do a reinstall to check for bad things.

[Red Iron Crown]

They seem to draw their heat from the hottest part on the vessel rather than what they're attached to. That makes placement a lot more flexible.

[RoverDude]

The radiators actively pull energy from across the ship. They will heat up very quickly (this is by design). The amount of energy being transferred is independent of how 'glowy' something is. The amount of heat moved will always net zero (i.e. if I pull 100 internal flux from part A, I dump 100 into the radiators). And your docking ports (or any other interceding part) are irrelevant since they are assumed to have internal heat pipes to move the heat around from hot spots to the radiators.

Side note... they work fine.

My test craft (a simple ship with quad nervs) without radiators exploded spectacularly at about 12 minutes into it's burn. With radiators deployed, this was dramatically extended (I got tired of watching it at around 20 minutes). Now... everything was super glowy (the nukes won't start trying to dump heat till they are very hot, and the surrounding bits were warm) but the radiators were able to cope with the heat and dump it into space due to their high emmissive value and large surface area.

(edit: make that 30 minutes of watching.. and it looks like the radiators are keeping up with the nervs even at full throttle)

[Tankman101]

Mind tossing me the test craft you used? It sounds like my install is a bit screwy.

EDIT:

They seem to draw their heat from the hottest part on the vessel rather than what they're attached to. That makes placement a lot more flexible.

Aaand this explains it. That should probably be explained somewhere, it's a but unintuitive.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Tankman101

[RoverDude]

Mind tossing me the test craft you used? It sounds like my install is a bit screwy.

It has nothing to do with your install - I looked at your screenshot. That looked like they were working as intended.

If you want to replicate it.. take a 2.75m capsule, the pancake Roco tank (get rid of all of the fuel), the quad adapter, four nervs, and the super-large radiators (four of them) radially on that roco tank. Turn on infinite fuel, hyper edit into place, go nuts.

[Tankman101]

It has nothing to do with your install - I looked at your screenshot. That looked like they were working as intended.

If you want to replicate it.. take a 2.75m capsule, the pancake Roco tank (get rid of all of the fuel), the quad adapter, four nervs, and the super-large radiators (four of them) radially on that roco tank. Turn on infinite fuel, hyper edit into place, go nuts.

Yep, as soon as I read they take heat from everywhere that explained it.

They LOOK like they are broken because they are magical. That mechanic needs a PSA.

[RoverDude]

They are not magical

[Tankman101]

They pull heat from areas they can't reach, I'd say that's a bit magical

I guess we could call it thermal pumps, but KSP parts don't normally abstract themselves to be within other parts (Save for recently, with Jet Engines)

[RoverDude]

They pull heat from areas they can't reach, I'd say that's a bit magical

I guess we could call it thermal pumps, but KSP parts don't normally abstract themselves to be within other parts (Save for recently, with Jet Engines)

It's a liquid cooled thermal control system, and it's and abstraction not magic. Much like the ISS can pull heat from stuff not directly attached to the radiator arrays.

[hoojiwana]

They pull heat from areas they can't reach, I'd say that's a bit magical

I guess we could call it thermal pumps, but KSP parts don't normally abstract themselves to be within other parts (Save for recently, with Jet Engines)

I think it's safe to assume the active radiators come with pipes and pumps and fluid to move heat around your vessel. Much like how it's safe to assume engines come with pipes from your tanks, or command pods come with electrical wiring to control everything.

[Tankman101]

Yes I'm aware, as I said most KSP parts don't abstract themselves to be within other parts.

Also apparently theres enough space in I-Beams to house liquid cooling pipes.

[RoverDude]

Yes I'm aware, as I said most KSP parts don't abstract themselves to be within other parts.

Also apparently theres enough space in I-Beams to house liquid cooling pipes.

There is enough space within tiny satellites to house liquid cooling pipes.

(edit)

And apparently fuel lines and electrical wire, too, in the case of the aforementioned I-Beam

[bakanando]

Just think about it like you do with RCS, that also drains from everywhere.

[Captain Sierra]

It's a liquid cooled thermal control system, and it's and abstraction not magic. Much like the ISS can pull heat from stuff not directly attached to the radiator arrays.

I guess people are not used to this because the nearest equivalent is Heat Control, which does not make this abstraction. Heat must be explicitly moved around which sometimes has its advantages, particularly when doing something unusually stupid like playing cuddles with the sun.

[Tankman101]

There is enough space within tiny satellites to house liquid cooling pipes.

(edit)

And apparently fuel lines and electrical wire, too, in the case of the aforementioned I-Beam

Pipes with enough throughput to cool down a nuclear engine ?

As for fuel lines, I'm not sure why anyone would sandwich a small probe.

In any case I already pretty much admitted I was wrong, now we are just arguing on how much KSP decided to abstract things.

[Guest]

Pipes with enough throughput to cool down a nuclear engine ?

Nuclear engines don't need cooling.

[Tankman101]

Nuclear engines don't need cooling.

True but that wasn't really my point. If NERVAs IRL heated up that much, would a cubesat be big enough to house the cooling pipes.

[Guest]

True but that wasn't really my point. If NERVAs IRL heated up that much, would a cubesat be big enough to house the cooling pipes.

Why would you route the main coolant pipes through a cubesat? If it needed it you'd just create a tiny branch line specifically for the part.

[FleshJeb]

Also apparently theres enough space in I-Beams to house liquid cooling pipes.

[Tankman101]

Why would you route the main coolant pipes through a cubesat? If it needed it you'd just create a tiny branch line specifically for the part.

I'm referring to this.

[Red Iron Crown]

Yes I'm aware, as I said most KSP parts don't abstract themselves to be within other parts.

Electrical wiring, xenon plumbing, monoprop plumbing, and jet fuel plumbing are all handled this way. It's a useful mechanic put to work effectively here.

[Guest]

I'm referring to this.

http://i.imgur.com/YHd5uj3.png

If it bothers you don't build like that. I certainly wouldn't. There comes a certain point where abstraction is useful, most especially in a game like KSP.