Does the EULA prohibit multiple installs on the same computer now?

[Captain Sierra]

Yeah, there's a couple sections of the EULA that could use work. We obviously are not against modding at all and we're cool with you guys having as many backups as you want, on as many OS's as you want, just don't give them to other people.

I stand very much corrected. I fully did not expect an official response, lead alone today.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Captain Sierra

[katateochi]

Yeah, there's a couple sections of the EULA that could use work. We obviously are not against modding at all and we're cool with you guys having as many backups as you want, on as many OS's as you want, just don't give them to other people.

If only the whole EULA could be written in such straightforward terms (and we didn't need lawyers)

[RocketPilot573]

Yeah, there's a couple sections of the EULA that could use work. We obviously are not against modding at all and we're cool with you guys having as many backups as you want, on as many OS's as you want, just don't give them to other people.

Annnnnnd everything is awesome again. Thanks!

[regex]

Annnnnnd everything is awesome again. Thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BpAwvkC6Rw

[Kerbart]

If only the whole EULA could be written in such straightforward terms (and we didn't need lawyers)

I forgot the name, but there was some flowchart software for MS DOS that did just that. It said things like "do this or this and we'll let our legal sharks loose on you." It also had "throw up menus" as Lotus-123 had a patent on "pull down menus" at that point.

UPDATE: not only did some googling uncover the name of the software (Easyflow), I also found a link to the first part of the manual, including the EULA

Here's the EULA. Those were simpler times back then...

Bloodthirsty License Agreement

This is where the bloodthirsty license agreement is supposed to go,

explaining that EasyFlow is a copyrighted package, sternly warning you not

to pirate copies of it and explaining, in detail, the gory consequences if

you do.

We know that you are an honest person, and are not going to go around

pirating copies of EasyFlow; this is just as well with us since we worked

hard to perfect it and selling copies of it is our only method of making

anything out of all the hard work. For your convenience EasyFlow Is

distributed on a non copy-protected diskette and you are free to do what

you want with it (make backups, move from machine to machine, etc.)

provided that it is never in use by more than one person at a time.

If, on the other hand, you are one of those few people who do go around

pirating copies of software, you probably aren't going to pay much

attention to a license agreement, bloodthirsty or not. Just keep your

doors locked and look out for the HavenTree attack shark.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Kerbart

[SelectHalfling0]

Illuminati controls everything through all those "accept user agreements", hoping nobody would read them. Regex: you better start watching your back.

[samstarman5]

If only the whole EULA could be written in such straightforward terms (and we didn't need lawyers)

Then we wouldn't need EULA's. Those are really written in regard to protecting the company from those who would like to reverse engineer the game code to use for their own purposes and profit. Ordinary users actually have zero concerns where EULA's are concerned.

While they are not legally enforceable, they do make it clear that if you do go out of your way(and we are talking really going the distance) to mess with the game and mess with Squad's hard work for your own profit and gain, then they can and will suspend your account so you can't get any more legitimate updates. (You don't have to worry about getting sued or thrown in some Mexican prison) That is really all it boils down to, and what Squad can really do.

Unless you actually do something illegal and they have solid evidence of it(Like using the gamecode to hack the US Congress). Then it gets more fun and they don't need an EULA to point at to kick your figurative butt.

[AbacusWizard]

I am reminded of a quote from a story that Utah Phillips used to tell:

"Oh, judge, you and your laws. The bad people don't follow 'em and the good people don't need 'em, so what good are they?"

[wossname]

The only safe thing to do is *imagine* playing KSP (without any mods) in the safety of your own head while whistling the Windows boot-up music over and over.

If at any time you think you can hear smooth jazz or lounge music, this is an indication that the NSA are implanting untested spy rocket designs into your thoughts for simulation flights in your squishy human brain.

This is also covered in the EULA, so that's alright.

There is no fairing.

[J.Random]

I hope this "Deported BV" thing is for IP protection against a hostile takeover possibility. Tax avoidance I sincerely despise.

[Engineer of Stuff]

....... yet another example of why I believe lawyers to be satan-spawn )

I am not a lawyer and I find that offencive.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, there's a couple sections of the EULA that could use work. We obviously are not against modding at all and we're cool with you guys having as many backups as you want, on as many OS's as you want, just don't give them to other people.

Did you have to talk to other Squad employees before posting that comment?

[J.Random]

I am not a lawyer and I find that offencive.

Offensive to satan spawns?

[Engineer of Stuff]

Offensive to satan spawns?

No, no. Just calling lawyers them.

[juanml82]

Then we wouldn't need EULA's. Those are really written in regard to protecting the company from those who would like to reverse engineer the game code to use for their own purposes and profit. Ordinary users actually have zero concerns where EULA's are concerned.

While they are not legally enforceable, they do make it clear that if you do go out of your way(and we are talking really going the distance) to mess with the game and mess with Squad's hard work for your own profit and gain, then they can and will suspend your account so you can't get any more legitimate updates. (You don't have to worry about getting sued or thrown in some Mexican prison) That is really all it boils down to, and what Squad can really do.

Unless you actually do something illegal and they have solid evidence of it(Like using the gamecode to hack the US Congress). Then it gets more fun and they don't need an EULA to point at to kick your figurative butt.

This. On top, the actual legality of an EULA varies from country to country, as EULAs are subject to local laws.

[BudgetHedgehog]

Yeah, there's a couple sections of the EULA that could use work. We obviously are not against modding at all and we're cool with you guys having as many backups as you want, on as many OS's as you want, just don't give them to other people.

Max, could you clarify the situation with DEPORTED B.V.? Does Squad, as a company and as of 2016-06-11, not hold the rights to KSP? There are connections with DEPORTED and Mexico City - is DEPORTED a subsidiary of/owned by/another name for Squad?

[Wolf Baginski]

There's another angle here. which may affect the interpretation of those terms. The EU has different laws surrounding computer data and software to those in the USA. While I'm not claiming to be an expert on the details, going through a company in the Netherlands, subject to that general legal framework on the protection of personal data, is actually rather reassuring to me.

So what it says about how the program may send certain data isn't so bad. It looks to cover such things as the Patcher program and a possible crash reporter. And, under the EU laws, they can't just sell the data to Kerbodyne so you get spammed with adverts for rocket launches. They're telling you what they're doing, and like any contract it doesn't detail the surrounding laws.

A side-note here: most EU countries don't work on Common Law principles such as found in the USA and UK. The Netherlands (and possibly Mexico) uses "Roman Law". Is that significant here? I have no idea.

[asmi]

I can't say for sure about other countries, but in Canada and US in order to claim a violation, a plaintiff has to prove there was damage (i.e. financial loss of some sort) done to him. Since people making gazillion of copies are doing so for their own personal use, I can't see a way to succeed in proving any damage is done (they've purchased KSP already, and it's not like they will buy more copies - if it's at all possible in Steam).

[pxi]

if it's at all possible in Steam).

You can buy multiple copies as gifts for other people. No matter how many copies you buy, you'll never have more than one copy in your personal library though.

Also thanks for the clarification Maxmaps

[Dilli]

It says "copy, install, access and use one copy" which, in basic English (not sure if that's your first language, so please excuse me), means that all of those verbs (copy, install, access, and use) apply to that noun (one copy).

And yes, a judge/lawyer would be nice to consult because this is a big change in how people have used KSP in the past.

Lawyer (non-satan spawn type) here:

7.2 Use the Licensed Application, or permit use of the Licensed Application, on more than one device at the same time.

Read with the rest of the license it indicates you may make multiple copies (7.3 for legitimate purposes) but can only use one at a time.

A side-note here: most EU countries don't work on Common Law principles such as found in the USA and UK. The Netherlands (and possibly Mexico) uses "Roman Law". Is that significant here? I have no idea.

Not really, copyright (and data protection) laws are relatively new and only exist due to recent legislation and international treaties in most countries as far as I know.

[micr0wave]

the eula popups that come AFTER you bought something are totally void imho, just a try to establish more ripoff tools.

It's like selling a car to someone and after you received the payment, the new owner of the car has to sign a contract that prohibites driving on tuesdays, reveals that the car has no rear mirrors (now available as DLC !!!), driving the car will not be possible without having a phonecall with you beforehand (line busy ? no driving for you), and when you want to leave town with the car you have to buy an expansion pack.

[KerbMav]

There's another angle here. which may affect the interpretation of those terms. The EU has different laws surrounding computer data and software to those in the USA. While I'm not claiming to be an expert on the details, going through a company in the Netherlands, subject to that general legal framework on the protection of personal data, is actually rather reassuring to me.

Most likely this. Also companies from non-EU countries providings services/licenses in the EU have to handle VAT differently (since some point in time that escapes me right now but is not that long ago), so having at least a subsidiary here may have advantages/make bureaucrazy easier.

[Acet]

the eula popups that come AFTER you bought something are totally void imho, just a try to establish more ripoff tools.

It's like selling a car to someone and after you received the payment, the new owner of the car has to sign a contract that prohibites driving on tuesdays, reveals that the car has no rear mirrors (now available as DLC !!!), driving the car will not be possible without having a phonecall with you beforehand (line busy ? no driving for you), and when you want to leave town with the car you have to buy an expansion pack.

This is considered an attempt at changing the terms of the implicit sales contract after a sale and in some countries, such as Germany, the legal framework says that any such things are null and void.

In other words, in most jurisdictions, either explicitly or expected (but never tested in court) if you didn't agree to something BEFORE you paid, then any agreement which is forced on you AFTER payment in order to be able to use a product or service which you bought is not valid in the eyes of the law.

In those places, for EULAs to be valid you would have to be provided with the full text of the EULA and agreed to it BEFORE you bought a product or service.

However, in some US states EULAs have been considered valid.

[Raven.]

"DEPORTED B.V.," in this case, could be a law firm that either Squad or an investor hired to do the EULA, in which case everything is just simply boilerplate.

[Tw1]

While you can have multiple installs to your own personal computer, or computers, highly desirable when using mods or comparing upgraded versions, you are only allowed to run one licensed copy at a time. IE, no running two or more copies at once on your two or more separate computers.

So, when one instance freezes, and I start booting up another before the first is fully closed down, is that bad?

Just curious, not that it's gonna stop me.

Sounds like you guys have some stuff to fix here, Squad.

[Korizan]

You can't pick out one line on a EULA and consider it the whole of the document.

Think of it this way.

EULA's first lines always deny everything (call it a catch all), then later on in the document they selectively authorize.

For computer geeks think firewall rules and/or router ACL's.

The INTENT of the complete document is what counts, NOT selective lines.