Seeking suggestions to better my gameplay.

[Random Hooded Stranger]

Okay so it seems that every time I get to the 90 science tier in my tech tree, everything starts to go wrong. In my career game, every time I start getting unmanned science probes into orbit, my next few mission just...explode. I don't know if I'm getting carried away with success in the early stages, or if I'm poorly managing my money in career, but I always seem to hit this bottleneck where I can't afford to upgrade R&D to be able to continue to progress. Then desperation breeds more mistakes as I get idea's to travel out past minmus for science, and I'm not quite good enough at the game to pull off the rescue this or that kerbal. Any suggestions? I keep running my ksc into the ground!!!

[TimePeriod]

Time accelerate.

I'll leave it at that.

[rkman]

Practice in sandbox? I doubt that most of us learned by doing only career.

Re your exploding missions: can you elaborate? Maybe it's just something specific that you're doing wrong.

[Randazzo]

Okay so it seems that every time I get to the 90 science tier in my tech tree, everything starts to go wrong. In my career game, every time I start getting unmanned science probes into orbit, my next few mission just...explode. I don't know if I'm getting carried away with success in the early stages, or if I'm poorly managing my money in career, but I always seem to hit this bottleneck where I can't afford to upgrade R&D to be able to continue to progress. Then desperation breeds more mistakes as I get idea's to travel out past minmus for science, and I'm not quite good enough at the game to pull off the rescue this or that kerbal. Any suggestions? I keep running my ksc into the ground!!!

You do not need to leave Kerbin SOI to unlock the majority of the tech tree. The Mun is generally the most obvious target, but you're better off hitting Minmus first. It doesn't take very much more to get there than it does to get to the Mun, and once there, you can do a lot more on the same fuel. You can easily hit five biomes in one trip without going very far. Get samples and EVA reports from each one. Tons of science at expenditures far lower than interplanetary travel.

[Random Hooded Stranger]

Time accelerate.

I'll leave it at that.

lol

Practice in sandbox? I doubt that most of us learned by doing only career.

Re your exploding missions: can you elaborate? Maybe it's just something specific that you're doing wrong.

Ah, well those are the typical human error explosions. Let say I'm throwing together a small asparagus staged rocket to send out a munar lander probe annnnnd I forget to triple check the staging and two of the outer tanks take off and ram into the probe destroying 30k worth of parts...I guess I should mention that I play with no quick save, no reverts, and no respawns. You know, cuz RL = no do-overs, lol. I kinda set myself up for frustration that way I suppose, so I guess I'm just looking for a way to not obliterate my space program in the process lol.

You do not need to leave Kerbin SOI to unlock the majority of the tech tree. The Mun is generally the most obvious target, but you're better off hitting Minmus first. It doesn't take very much more to get there than it does to get to the Mun, and once there, you can do a lot more on the same fuel. You can easily hit five biomes in one trip without going very far. Get samples and EVA reports from each one. Tons of science at expenditures far lower than interplanetary travel.

That....is a grand idea. I haven't ever really spent a lot of time on minmus. Mun and back is tough for me as is, but if the dV is about the same then yeah.. ok starting a new mission entitled "screw the mun!" lol

[EtherDragon]

Going interplanetary is a leap, and it requires a fair bit of successful capital to start pulling off. Missions get more expensive with more and more complex rockets where a larger percentage of them are not-recovered.

Which R&D upgrade level have you purchased?

- - - Updated - - -

lol

Ah, well those are the typical human error explosions. Let say I'm throwing together a small asparagus staged rocket to send out a munar lander probe annnnnd I forget to triple check the staging and two of the outer tanks take off and ram into the probe destroying 30k worth of parts...I guess I should mention that I play with no quick save, no reverts, and no respawns. You know, cuz RL = no do-overs, lol. I kinda set myself up for frustration that way I suppose, so I guess I'm just looking for a way to not obliterate my space program in the process lol.

Aha! So you are playing Ironman Mode. I get it, it's a cool way to play. Here is what I suggest - do what NASA did, each and every new kind of flight was tested on the pad 100% before they ever lifted off.

Set up your rocket so the whole thing stays on the pad, essentially. Test all the staging with rocket motors turned off. All the way through parachute and recovery (if applicable). You'll be able to retrieve 95% of the cost of the parts during recovery before you make your main launch.

[Random Hooded Stranger]

Going interplanetary is a leap, and it requires a fair bit of successful capital to start pulling off. Missions get more expensive with more and more complex rockets where a larger percentage of them are not-recovered.

Which R&D upgrade level have you purchased?

That's actually the thing, the first upgrade is so expensive I haven't yet been able to afford it. I tend to get roughly 600k funds after my first launch, atmosphere escape, and orbit. Then I usually upgrade VAB, Launchpad, sometimes the tracking station or astronaut complex, and save the rest for vehicles and such.

- - - Updated - - -

Going interplanetary is a leap, and it requires a fair bit of successful capital to start pulling off. Missions get more expensive with more and more complex rockets where a larger percentage of them are not-recovered.

Which R&D upgrade level have you purchased?

- - - Updated - - -

Aha! So you are playing Ironman Mode. I get it, it's a cool way to play. Here is what I suggest - do what NASA did, each and every new kind of flight was tested on the pad 100% before they ever lifted off.

Set up your rocket so the whole thing stays on the pad, essentially. Test all the staging with rocket motors turned off. All the way through parachute and recovery (if applicable). You'll be able to retrieve 95% of the cost of the parts during recovery before you make your main launch.

Testing the staging on the launchpad like that won't destroy anything?

[Randazzo]

That....is a grand idea. I haven't ever really spent a lot of time on minmus. Mun and back is tough for me as is, but if the dV is about the same then yeah.. ok starting a new mission entitled "screw the mun!" lol

If you match planes first, you're going to need about 350 (~250 plane change) more dV on the outbound trip. If you don't match planes, you'll only need an extra 150 or so. You can change to an equatorial orbit at Minmus for much cheaper than matching over Kerbin.

You'll also need slightly more to circularize when returning to Kerbin, unless you aerobrake of course.

edit: And don't bother with any of this until you can take surface samples and EVA off-kerbin.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Randazzo

[EtherDragon]

That's actually the thing, the first upgrade is so expensive I haven't yet been able to afford it. I tend to get roughly 600k funds after my first launch, atmosphere escape, and orbit. Then I usually upgrade VAB, Launchpad, sometimes the tracking station or astronaut complex, and save the rest for vehicles and such.

Ah. If you haven't upgrade R&D from level 1 yet, you haven't been exposed to the tech needed to really consider leaving Kerbin's SoI cleanly - at least, not without a Scott Manley level of skill. (I bet he reverts a lot... anyway...)

There are plenty of profits to be made from Kerbin, Mun and Minmas at that point, still. And the skills developed during those missions directly lead to success in going interplanetary.

Placing satellites, orbital rescues, and Mun / Minmas scientific survey contracts pay a lot, but are still a challenge before unlocking R&D 2.

Testing the staging on the launchpad like that won't destroy anything?

So long as you don't blast any rocket engines at full throttle, no harm no fowl. Just make sure that every stage is secured with the Launch Stability Enhancers and run any rockets on very low throttle just to make sure the correct one is active at the right time.

[Plume & Akakak]

Apparently, Random Hooded Stranger is not that much struggling to get more science points, seems like he's running out of kredits/kerbits/money. Though your advice about finding enough science points within Kerbin's SOI is right, Randazzo.

Minmus is a good choice, landind on Minimumsnm is easier than landing on the Mun because of the very low gravity there. However, to take surface samples, Random Hooded Stranger would have to upgrade his research center first. Same problem.

There's also a significant number of mini-biomes at the KSC. You can build a small vehicle and just go from one building to another, and perform crew & EVA reports & temperature scans there.

For your money problems :

Go slow at first, ferry a few tourists (suborbital flights missions, if they are already available to you). I usually try to combine a few tourists missions in a single flight.

Do the "test [device] landed at Kerbin" missions.

The "test [device] in flight" ones can be done as well, but beware, some can be tricky to achieve, because of the altitude and speed requirements.

Don't accept all the missions that pop at mission control. Accelerate time til the unwanted ones expire and new ones become available... Or you'll get stuck with missions you can't complete because of your funds problem. The max number of active contracts is very limited at first.

Also, what's the difficulty setting of your career game ?

Do you save your game before your missions, or during your flights, so that you can revert and fix what went wrong ? This could help you avoid expensive catastrophes.

EDIT : Man, am I slow.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Plume & Akakak

[Randazzo]

Apparently, Random Hooded Stranger is not that much struggling to get more science points, seems like he's running out of kredits/kerbits/money. Though your advice about finding enough science points within Kerbin's SOI is right, Randazzo.

Then desperation breeds more mistakes as I get idea's to travel out past minmus for science, and I'm not quite good enough at the game to pull off the rescue this or that kerbal. Any suggestions? I keep running my ksc into the ground!!!

You do not need to leave Kerbin SOI to unlock the majority of the tech tree.....Tons of science at expenditures far lower than interplanetary travel.

Right.

[Random Hooded Stranger]

Apparently, Random Hooded Stranger is not that much struggling to get more science points, seems like he's running out of kredits/kerbits/money. Though your advice about finding enough science points within Kerbin's SOI is right, Randazzo.

Minmus is a good choice, landind on Minimumsnm is easier than landing on the Mun because of the very low gravity there. However, to take surface samples, Random Hooded Stranger would have to upgrade his research center first. Same problem.

There's also a significant number of mini-biomes at the KSC. You can build a small vehicle and just go from one building to another, and perform crew & EVA reports & temperature scans there.

For your money problems :

Go slow at first, ferry a few tourists (suborbital flights missions, if they are already available to you). I usually try to combine a few tourists missions in a single flight.

Do the "test [device] landed at Kerbin" missions.

The "test [device] in flight" ones can be done as well, but beware, some can be tricky to achieve, because of the altitude and speed requirements.

Don't accept all the missions that pop at mission control. Accelerate time til the unwanted ones expire and new ones become available... Or you'll get stuck with missions you can't complete because of your funds problem. The max number of active contracts is very limited at first.

Also, what's the difficulty setting of your career game ?

Do you save your game before your missions, or during your flights, so that you can revert and fix what went wrong ? This could help you avoid expensive catastrophes.

EDIT : Man, am I slow.

Hmm that is true, I'm pretty bad at doing the tourist and testing contracts. Not bad as in can't fly, bad as in don't because who needs to test parts?! just get up there and use 'em! *boom* oh...

lol guess I never really viewed KSP as a grinding game but I think that just clicked into gear xD

[Ignath]

Hmm that is true, I'm pretty bad at doing the tourist and testing contracts. Not bad as in can't fly, bad as in don't because who needs to test parts?! just get up there and use 'em! *boom* oh...

lol guess I never really viewed KSP as a grinding game but I think that just clicked into gear xD

Just to second a few comments on this thread and perhaps add a thought or two:

1. Don't worry about leaving Kerbin's SOI (Mun and Minmus are fine) until you're well past upgrading your R&D the first time

2. Satellite contracts can be huge moneymakers, along with tourism contracts. If you can combine the two (include a small satellite that you can detach from your tourism lifter and move to orbit - 1 launch, multiple contracts), all the better.

3. Make sure that when you're taking a contract, your ship costs less than the contract pays, otherwise you're just losing money (unless you can recover enough of your ship to make it worth it...see #4)

4. Get the StageRecovery mod (if you are not against mods/modding). This mod will allow you to recover spent stages if you have enough parachutes or fuel left to make a powered landing. This helps keep your funds up a bit, as you won't lose expensive parts (such as engines) on your Launch stages.

RE: Grindy ~ Yeah, KSP can be a bit grindy in career. If you don't want those grindy requirements, Science mode is available and basically just career w/out the funds limitations.

I guess I should mention that I play with no quick save, no reverts, and no respawns.

If I may, I would suggest at least keeping Quick Saves available. KSP has been fairly well known to be buggy and occasionally crash-prone. It's really frustrating to get a mission nearly finished and have the game crash and lose it all... I have seen even the most veteran KSP'ers use Quick Save and not use Quick Load unless they run into a bug. If they crash or have a RUD (Rapid Unplanned Disassembly) they won't Quick Load, only on bugs.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Ignath
Quick Save/Load stuff I forgot.

[Plume & Akakak]

(...) I guess I should mention that I play with no quick save, no reverts, and no respawns. You know, cuz RL = no do-overs, lol. (...)

(...) and I'm not quite good enough at the game to pull off the rescue this or that kerbal. (...)

Your call, and you'll need this encouraging tap on the shoulder.

*tap*

But maybe it's a bit like wanting to have your cake and eat it too. : )

Edited June 11, 2015 by Plume & Akakak

[Random Hooded Stranger]

Your call, and you'll need this encouraging tap on the shoulder.

*tap*

But maybe it's a bit like wanting to have your cake and eat it too. : )

Encouragement appreciated! Lol I'll get there eventually. I'm just starting to skim the surface of rendezvous and docking, so those rescue missions will be mine eventually! But yes, sounds like I need to just buckle down and get some of the less exciting contracts taken care of as efficiently as I can.

[Terwin]

Encouragement appreciated! Lol I'll get there eventually. I'm just starting to skim the surface of rendezvous and docking, so those rescue missions will be mine eventually! But yes, sounds like I need to just buckle down and get some of the less exciting contracts taken care of as efficiently as I can.

Rescue missions do not require docking if you can EVA off Kerbin, just get within a KM or so with a similar speed and EVA the rescuee over to your vessel.(I have yet to see a pod to rescue that has a docking clamp, so you need either EVA or the Klaw to bring them back)

(if you target the other vessel, you can get the relative speed by switching to Target mode, in that mode the retrograde marker will also show you which way to thrust to slow your relative velocity)

Rescue missions also give you lots to rendezvous practice where close is good enough, so you can practice without putting your mission at risk.

[Random Hooded Stranger]

Rescue missions do not require docking if you can EVA off Kerbin, just get within a KM or so with a similar speed and EVA the rescuee over to your vessel.(I have yet to see a pod to rescue that has a docking clamp, so you need either EVA or the Klaw to bring them back)

(if you target the other vessel, you can get the relative speed by switching to Target mode, in that mode the retrograde marker will also show you which way to thrust to slow your relative velocity)

Rescue missions also give you lots to rendezvous practice where close is good enough, so you can practice without putting your mission at risk.

This is really good to know. I didn't realize that's how the missions went as I haven't really tried them yet. Makes alot more sense now, and seems less an obstacle

[Mastikator]

The price of upgrading facilities is directly tied to "Fund penalties".

Start over, set it to 50% (or some low number) and enjoy.

It mostly just takes the grinding away. Grinding satellites and empty useless orbital stations for funds isn't how I prefer to play the game.

[Evanitis]

I never really viewed KSP as a grinding game but I think that just clicked into gear xD

I had such feeling too when I started 1.0.2 career, but it quickly passed. It made me learn some basics I never needed before. MJ could handle all my orbital rendezvous and manuvering needs, but I now I had to do those manually. These days I only use MechJeb for the readouts (ok, maybe burning too).

Doing the same tasks (because those are your favorites or you consider those easy) is boring. So while learning to do every type of missions, I unlocked the basic but essential parts. Since than I'm having great fun of combining as many tasks as possible. Designing a rocket that takes passengers to Minmus, rescues a Kerbal who will land on two different spots to do readings is great fun. Ahh, it also carried a sat that did an orbit mission before landing for seizmic data.

I could never come up with a complex task like that in sandbox, and it's even more enjoyable with the added technological and financial limitations.

[SRV Ron]

You can launch low cost one way probes to the planets once you get solar panels, SAS, some basic instruments, and the better probe core. Send several on their way, but continue testing contracts and exploiting exploration of Kerbal, Mun, and Minmus while those probes are on their way. Place a low cost probe with thermometer in orbit around Kerbal, Mun, and Minmus to fulfill those data contracts for easy funds.

An example of a low cost lander probe early in Career.

Prior to KSP 0.90, this landed on Mun.

Experiment in Sandbox with low cost designs to find what works best with the limited tech in KSP 1.02

[Dilli]

One was of reducing human error is reusing successful designs. Particularly for launchers - if successful and not overly inefficient I save for re-use with a maximum payload rating; I have 4 saved, a satellite launcher and then a 20t, 50t, 100t and 120t launcher; as new tech unlocks I revise them. This also has the advantage of gradual improvements (ie: moving tanks on decouplers for better clearance when discarded, adding or removing fins, adjusting amount of batteries) that are learn from use.

A mod that gives performance readouts such as KER can help highlight errors as your dv and TWR readings for will usually be not what is expected. Also very useful for letting you know whether you can land on the mun or just impact it while your engine feebly tries to slow you down; or if you are trying to use a much bigger lander than you actually require.

I'd suggest playing the science career a bit, it is useful for introducing you to use the early tech rockets parts, learning their limitations and capabilities without penalizing failure.

If I hadn't played sandbox before the careers I would have really battled, you can also go read mission reports on the forums; they can be very informative on both planning missions and rocket design (and many are great reads to).

[joekidd1992]

One was of reducing human error is reusing successful designs. Particularly for launchers - if successful and not overly inefficient I save for re-use with a maximum payload rating; I have 4 saved, a satellite launcher and then a 20t, 50t, 100t and 120t launcher; as new tech unlocks I revise them. This also has the advantage of gradual improvements (ie: moving tanks on decouplers for better clearance when discarded, adding or removing fins, adjusting amount of batteries) that are learn from use.

A mod that gives performance readouts such as KER can help highlight errors as your dv and TWR readings for will usually be not what is expected. Also very useful for letting you know whether you can land on the mun or just impact it while your engine feebly tries to slow you down; or if you are trying to use a much bigger lander than you actually require.

I'd suggest playing the science career a bit, it is useful for introducing you to use the early tech rockets parts, learning their limitations and capabilities without penalizing failure.

If I hadn't played sandbox before the careers I would have really battled, you can also go read mission reports on the forums; they can be very informative on both planning missions and rocket design (and many are great reads to).

This is what I did. I built a successful craft that could get me to Minmus and land. And have enough to get back. So, now, whenever a Minmus contract comes up like plant a flag, I take it and increase my money. I'm probably not as efficient as others, but it makes me money. Also, I try and get two or three missions at a time to Minmus, thereby maximizing revenue.

Combine missions, like "Science from around Kerbin" + "Plant Flag on Minmus". And you don''t have to actually get science from running the experiment. Even if you get 0 Science, running the experiment gets you the success.

that being said, I have yet to leave Kerbin SOI except for one unmanned probe to Dune and Ike, and I am up to the 550 level of science and still going.

[Archgeek]

Just to add to what's already been said, it does not in fact need to be a grind. Need more cash, sure, you test parts, but why just test parts when you can incorperate part tests into your missions? Some part tests are convenient and ask you test a part when you'd be using it anyway, like testing a booster when landed on Kerbin. Others give you temporary access to parts you haven't even unlocked yet, and if they fit your mission profile, can help simplify a mission you were doing anyway. For instance, I'll often combine part tests with a rescue mission, making dreadbank and getting free crew member.

[Random Hooded Stranger]

These are some great tips guys my new iron man career save is actually going pretty well. I decided to spend my first large chunk of funds on upgrading my R&D building FIRST so I don't run into that problem later. I've also managed to upgrade my launchpad so that weight isn't such an issue any more, and I'm still managing to keep my funds dancing around 100k, which is good for me No loss of kerbals yet, and I'm almost ready to get the tech I need to launch unmanned sats into orbit. Keep tossing the ideas!! I use them! I'll also post a couple pics today so y'all can see how it's going

[carlorizzante]

As a total newbie, I like to keep things simple. Especially related to the weight to carry into orbit or to a moon.

Some mods also helps, and KSP should include those tools at some point. For example, Kerbal Engineer Redux is very useful in order to understand how to optimize your stages. I also like to watch Scott Manley's videos on YouTube. I've learned a lot from him.

In my career mode I still didn't unlock all the 90 points tier tech bits, nonetheless I can easily manage touristic contracts that want me to fly by moons. And that's easy money :-p

ps. Also, installing probe and parachutes to your second or third stages help in retrieving them for reuse.

Edited June 14, 2015 by carlorizzante