Has anyone taken a close look at Microsoft's Privacy Policy?

[kenbobo]

I was reading through it at the request of my linux nerd friend and noticed this line.

I've changed my name to "NOPE CANTSELLTHIS"

and my email to "[email protected]"

(i blanked it here only)

[Vaporo]

Well, my interpretation of the line is that they will only disclose the data if Microsoft gets bought (or more likely, if Microsoft buys another business) to the other business in question. Of course, "sale of assets" could be interpreted loosely to be "sale of information," which could mean sale of your personal data. But, "assets," when I've heard it used in used in legalese, typically means some kind of part of the company, and not something like data. I'm sure it has some fancy proper legalese definition, though.

[Camacha]

Well, my interpretation of the line is

I think that is exactly the reasons they worded it like this: people interpret it as being benign. Meanwhile, they tell you they can sell your information and give a couple of examples. Most importantly, those examples are not limiting.

It seems they can sell whatever to whoever.

[RainDreamer]

So...I am that person who is wondering why you have to take a picture of your computer screen.

That aside, I guess it gets to the point of either you use microsoft products and pay for it with your information, or break off and use linux or something.

Edited June 21, 2015 by RainDreamer

[Camacha]

That aside, I guess it gets to the point of either you use microsoft products and pay for it with your information, or break off and use linux or something.

You pay with your wallet too. Some Microsoft services and software are free, a lot of them cost quite a bit of money. In most cases you are a true client, not the product itself, like is the case with Facebook. The sad truth is that almost every large corporation has similar TOS nowadays.

[Flymetothemun]

I wrote a HUGE write-up, but I'm afraid that it'll attract the wrong kind of Moderator attention. I really need to find a forum that's more lenient/adult, I do huge writeups but after I'm done I know they'll be taken down and me slapped on the wrist because of the rules of this forum, so I junk them. I've already gotten 2 strikes, and even though they're both expired, I don't want to test the system to see what happens if I get a third.

In short, what the writeup was about: it's business as usual. And not just for MS, for a LOT of businesses, both gargantuan and small.

[Dodgey]

I honestly couldn't care about my data. If Microsoft is going to do some real shady stuff they will do it regardless of their privacy policy.

[dryer_lint]

I honestly couldn't care less about my data.

Can... can I be honest, guys?

Because... this.

I really can't get myself to care that much about "NSA spying" or "Microsoft data sales". Yeah, call me a sheeple or a lazy American or whatever, but chances are, there's no actual person going through your data. I just don't have that much to hide.

Sorry ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ninja-edit: Unless we're actually talking about financial data being stolen and abused, etc. Yeah, that's not cool.

[Dodgey]

Oh financial data is a different story I completely agree. But if they wanted to know gentleman's content I browse on the web they can just ask, I really do not care.

Edit: Why did you take a photo of your screen?

[RainDreamer]

Well, identity thief can be problematic, even with seemingly inconspicuous data - it is possible to social engineer more sensitive data from the throw-away data you have. For example, a scammer can just mention some details about one of your trip on holiday that you post on face book to a gullible friend and assuming your identity, and thus able to either scam that friend out of money or make more inquiry about your more personal details and find more important data to steal and/or sell.

That said, usually an average person doesn't have anything interesting enough to spend all that effort for.

[Dodgey]

Which goes back to my first point of if they wanted to do it they would do it regardless of their privacy policy.

[Camacha]

The problem, the huge and consistently occurring problem, is that when you start feeling the consequences and negative effects, it is way too late to do anything about it. History has shown that excessive and unnecessary data collection only leads to trouble in the end. Another problem is that the trouble often comes from something or someone you did not see coming. You do not care not, because it is hard to foresee who will come out of the woodwork to abuse the data collected.

In short, large scale data collection is a threat to a truly free and open society. He who yields data, yields power, and power invariably corrupts. This is not a theoretical threath either, it has happened many times before and it will certainly happen again. A lot has been written and said about this, but I will highlight a small portion of that via someone who deals with real life consequences of the discussion. Privacy matters, also to you, even if you think it does not.

Ninja-edit: Unless we're actually talking about financial data being stolen and abused, etc. Yeah, that's not cool.

It is kind of weird that you care about your money being stolen, but do not care about your identity, rights or freedom being stolen.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Camacha

[ColKlonk]

This why.. and I've said it for years... never use your real details on the net.

Obviously for online shopping you have to.. but for everything else (Especially KSP [], F.book, Tw.tter..etc) = false name, numbers and aliases.

At least MSoft is being honest about this here... whereas most others don't bother

Edited June 21, 2015 by ColKlonk

[SpaceXray]

Can... can I be honest, guys?

Because... this.

I really can't get myself to care that much about "NSA spying" or "Microsoft data sales". Yeah, call me a sheeple or a lazy American or whatever, but chances are, there's no actual person going through your data. I just don't have that much to hide.

Sorry ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ninja-edit: Unless we're actually talking about financial data being stolen and abused, etc. Yeah, that's not cool.

Ill have to admit it too. I couldn't care less. Don't think Microsoft has any interest in how much I will use Excel or anything like that. Most big companies do have similar TOS, and no one is complaining much about that.

Also, funny how I also have an even nerdier than me Linux friend

[Tex_NL]

Thinking a company will never divulge your information under whatever circumstances to others is a deception. As ColKlonk said: "At least MSoft is being honest about this".

Simply by registering and using this forum SQUAD knows some of your details. Some might be sensitive, others common knowledge. And just as everybody else SQUAD has a non-disclosure policy. Now lets assume SQUAD gets into some rough financial weather and decides to sell to EA, Blizzard, Ubisoft, Bethesda or whatever big game developer out there. Does anybody REALLY believe your account information won't be included in that transaction?

Or another example: Lets assume Steam goes belly-up. Steam records A LOT of your game behaviour. All that information can and will be sold to the highest bidder.

[Camacha]

Ill have to admit it too. I couldn't care less. Don't think Microsoft has any interest in how much I will use Excel or anything like that. Most big companies do have similar TOS, and no one is complaining much about that.

That last bit is one extremely scary line of reasoning. Let us all sleep on the highway. If everyone does it, it must be fine, right?

Also, did you see the movie clip I posted? If I am honest, if appears your lack of worry stems from a underestimation of what data can be gathered and distilled.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Camacha

[ZedNova]

Don't use Microsoft services then.

Data harvesting is so widespread, you basically need to disconnect from the internet to avoid any of your data being collected. Just by viewing this thread, you are allowing data to be collected. Your ISP, the server this site is hosted from, your browser, any ads, plugins ect in the webpage are all collecting information from you. My question is, how are you supposed to avoid this?

[sam.johnson841]

Avoiding it would be all but impossible, imo, you just have to minimalise it as best you can.

- Sam

[Camacha]

Data harvesting is so widespread, you basically need to disconnect from the internet to avoid any of your data being collected. Just by viewing this thread, you are allowing data to be collected. Your ISP, the server this site is hosted from, your browser, any ads, plugins ect in the webpage are all collecting information from you. My question is, how are you supposed to avoid this?

There is something in between going all in and flapping your private parts about on the web, and going off grid, drinking water from mountain streams. Being aware of what is going on, not or selectively sharing your data and voicing your worries to companies and legislators and occasionally making a stand is a good start.

Thing is, of everyone blindly accepts what is going on, things will fall apart rather quickly. There has always been a tension between what large institutions want and what is good for the public. Companies and governments have the natural tendency to want more and more, while good civilians have the right (and I would argue duty) to apply the brakes. Basic humans rights have been created and sharpened over centuries because they turned out to be necessary, it would be quite foolish to throw all those hard fought protections and rights away.

Also please note that the right to privacy is the right to choose what happens with your data. If you choose to broadcast everything you do, power to you. It has to be a choice made out of free will, however, and that is the problem with what is going on now - it has become neigh on impossible to opt out, and maybe even worse, you do not even know what you should opt out of. Your data gets collected and stored everywhere without you even knowing what is going on.

[lajoswinkler]

Is this Windows 10 EULA?

Oh well, I wasn't planning on installing that thing anyway.

[dryer_lint]

Is this Windows 10 EULA?

Oh well, I wasn't planning on installing that thing anyway.

B- but START MENU

[LABHOUSE]

I used fake_email_address@fake_website.com

I do not care if I have no privacy to strangers, they do not know me, and I do not know them; I only care (somewhat) about privacy to people who know me.

If you want to avoid it, change your name to John Smith, use a vpn or starbucks for internet, cash only, and never use your real name (or John Smith); oh, and dig a hole to stick your head in.

I have actually tried to sell my personal information (and the fake id genorator fake people's information too)....

Edited June 22, 2015 by LABHOUSE

[Fel]

I was reading through it at the request of my linux nerd friend and noticed this line.

And what does Linux's privacy policy say?

In addition, Linux Foundation reserves the right to share aggregate information collected from users of the Sites, without prior notice, with entities that are part of the Linux Foundation corporate family and unrelated third parties.

https://wiki.linuxfoundation.org/en/Privacy_Policy#ONWARD_TRANSFER

Big bloody deal, open source has used FUD far too often when they're just as capable of using data harvesting. Firefox, for instance, included a subtle feature around 3.0 to automatically complete web addresses via contacting a web server. A "feature" that can easily be collecting data on you while appearing benign. Android includes multiple "phone home" schemes (including sending GPS information), turned on by default and supposedly disabled via menu (or rather, the data gets hidden from you; how do you know?) I also know that the open source community isn't above this nonsense either, with FileZilla being packaged with spyware and all. (Despite the claims to the contrary, they willingly let source forge add it as it is an opt-in process and fully voluntary.)

I just don't have that much to hide.

Can I talk about this fallacy for a second?

Would you care to discuss your "measurements" (in all the NC-17 sense) on an online forum? Maybe, maybe not. But the likelihood of such a conversation occurring increases by several fold when done online. When we say "I just don't have that much to hide" we're REALLY saying "I don't think my data will come back to haunt me."

Let's talk about Steam. Some people play games at work, Steam records player activity while playing, ergo Steam could sell user data to your boss and get you fired.

Let's say that you Google "fungus cream" or w/e, Google contacts Facebook and now your status is updated "Warning: Has Foot Fungus." (Oh, I can so see someone saying we should have a national HIV database and it escalating to that.)

Let's say you visited a clinic to talk about "problems down there" and your cellphone conveniently sent GPS information and activated the microphone. Google sells the fact that you have problems to advertisers, you now have messages on your cellphone popping up talking about your problem.

And, with our full embrace of the internet of things, I wonder how easy it would be to use hack into those "internet home security systems" and plan a burglary. Heck, just slipping a little money into the hands of one of the workers, who likely have a 24/7 peepshow access, to tell you if anyone is home and unlock the doors seems doable. (Oh, all the uproar over TSA and being seen naked, but nothing when it comes to giving strangers unrestricted access to webcams you placed all around the house?)

People have ton's of stuff to hide, so why do we not care when people we don't know have the data over people we do know? Why does it matter more when the Government is doing the spying than when corporations are?

[DaMichel]

Problem is this has gone so far, there is hardly a way to escape data collection.

Now even our German government jumps the train with the new Vorratsdatenspeichungung, i.e. meta data collection on connections to internet servers + phone connections. Many other european governments do this already. From our connection data alone they will be able to deduce interests, political views, physical conditions and whatever else. The NSA scandal has teached us that everything that is technically possible will be done.

You could probably pay a VPN service to escape the governments (at least they have to put more effort in to get your data) but M$ windows and Smart Phones are happily collecting stuff. I wonder if Linux kernels are rigged to collect data, too. I mean distributors of binary distributions can be forced to built in a secret back door.

Let's hope that this does not end in total disaster

[RainDreamer]

I think it has come to the point where it is impossible to avoid data collection. After all, there is so much data one person can protect before they start having to going off the grid and living in the wilderness. And even then you might get tracked and harassed by producers for "reality" TV.