Parachutes now destroyed at very low speeds?

[mikegarrison]

Also, the current discussion may be missing the mark a bit. Should this not be more about the fact that things now heat up a lot easier in atmo, but clearly they made the Atmo much less dense since it is much much harder to slow down enough to pull your parachute before impact. This means they increased the friction caused by air particles by at least a factor of 4 or more while decreasing the atmo density even further.

Actually, re-entry heating is not due to "friction". Almost all of it is due to compression of the air.

[mcirish3]

Actually, re-entry heating is not due to "friction". Almost all of it is due to compression of the air.

Doh... you are absolutely right.

Edit: Restated what i said above to actually make sense. Used compression rather than friction.

Edited June 27, 2015 by mcirish3

[Roninpawn]

I didn't read all the updates to the thread yet. Had to stop and express my delight and amusement at the fellow who said KSP is not a difficult game, and you need only apply common sense.

Yeah, thank god this isn't rocket science or something. BTW: Hasbro just came out with "Little Johnny Brain Surgery Simulator." Suitable for age 5 and up.

[mcirish3]

I didn't read all the updates to the thread yet. Had to stop and express my delight and amusement at the fellow who said KSP is not a difficult game, and you need only apply common sense.

Yeah, thank god this isn't rocket science or something. BTW: Hasbro just came out with "Little Johnny Brain Surgery Simulator." Suitable for age 5 and up.

Good point, I think experienced players, (myself included) tend to forget how much they struggled with the game when they first played it, and that was back when it was a lot easier. Anyone who says it was easy for them when they started either works in the aerospace industry or could work in it or just plain isn't being honest with themselves. I know squad has struggled with this, they have said as much several times. You need to put on your special educators hat that lets you see through a young mind's eyes to see that just maybe this current edition may be too much for the new player.

Also got to say, this:

That makes no sense at all. There are Lego sets not intended for people younger than 16 years, because younger kids usually don't have the patience and/or the abstract reasoning ability to build stuff with them.

does not make much sense. Little green cartoony guys = appeal to children, 0 violence and gore = safe for children, Educational version = help teach, help children learn. My guess Squad definitely does want this game to pass the 10 year old test whether you think it should on not. I suspect in the end it will and guess what! it will still be fun, it will still be hard, and most people that love it now will love it then, and heck if you want it to be harder you can always play on hard mode (this is what it is for) or you can DL the realisim mods, I know that is what I will do. I don't see a need to compromise when you can have both.

Edited June 28, 2015 by mcirish3

[Jouni]

I didn't read all the updates to the thread yet. Had to stop and express my delight and amusement at the fellow who said KSP is not a difficult game, and you need only apply common sense.

Almost all RPGs and action games are harder than KSP. In almost every game I buy, I get stuck on at least one combat scene, having to try it tens of times before finally winning it. Perhaps I don't understand the game system well enough, perhaps I'm missing some game-specific knowledge I can't find anywhere, perhaps I missed an opportunity to heal and resupply before a big combat, or perhaps my player skills just aren't up to the task.

KSP was never like that. My first Mun landing required two or three attempts. (I didn't even know about quicksave/quickload back then.) Docking was disappointingly easy when I finally had the courage to try it. (I was prepared to maneuver the ship until the docking ports touched, but some strange force pulled the ships together just as things were starting to look interesting.) I was very careful about my first reentries. (Until I learned a week or two later that it didn't matter.) When I installed FAR a year ago, I discovered it was the easy mode for rockets. (My stock rockets still worked, but they usually didn't have to use their upper stages.) Sometimes I have to iterate 5 or 15 times to get the aerobraking or atmospheric landing exactly right, but it doesn't feel hard. (The attempts rarely require my attention after setting the periapsis or completing the deorbiting burn.)

Surely I've had to learn some stuff about the real world while playing KSP, but it isn't hard. I do it at work every day. I've probably studied more physics while playing KSP than in the 15 years between high school and KSP.

I don't see a need to compromise when you can have both.

It's very rare to see a game that works well with difficulty settings far from the default ones. Every single aspect of the game has been designed (consciously or unconsciously) with the default settings in mind. Every single choice the developers make has unintentional consequences. Unless the consequences appear close to the default settings, nobody probably even knows about them before the release. If you try to balance the game for some settings, you are probably making it less balanced with other settings.

There are over a billion gamers in the world, but it's very rare for a game to sell even 20 million copies. Even the best-selling games are really niche products for a niche audience. No game developer so far has discovered how to avoid the compromises.

[Jon reese]

I had to register to comment.

as a new player (read 64 hours in game) I just got back from a work trip to find I have six capsule in space that are no longer land able.

Yes they have heat shields. I did manage to find the new speed ratings on the wiki. But having put them up before the change.... I am forced to abandon the science and jump in the hopes that rcs will save me?

i tested them using F5-F9

the slowest speeds I could achieve apon impact with the ground was 79m/s

my best guess is that my capsules are just too heavy... Not something that I can fix (again they are already up there)

from a new players perspective I have to say this doesn't help.

Dont get me wrong I'm glad they are adding too the game and fixing bugs but I think giving the basic parachute some super strength so beginners have a reliable way to get home won't hurt the higher lvls

thanks

[mengo]

..."KPS is not a difficult game"......"KPS is not a difficult game"......"KPS is not a difficult game"...

is the new mantra everybody repeats, when the question of whether or not game certain changes after 1.0.x are meaningful. Don't get me wrong but I think I speak for everybody else who is bothered by those changes when I say that the new parachute dynamics are ANNOYING AS HELL. Simple as that... and the controls that go with them can't change the fact. Not in stock anyway.

think about this situation:

as of 1.0.x I was forced to install 2 separate mods (stage recovery and real parachutes) only to be able to achieve the simple goal of landing my empty stages safely. Well, as it is in stock right now I forgot how the landed debris icon looked like, because nothing makes it back in one piece.

ever since 1.0.x I found it annoyingly difficult to land manually controlling the parachutes and almost impossible if you rely solely on the automatic arming settings.

And notice how one of those mods just cheats the game engine not to calculate physics but just assume parts with parachutes land.

the main point being:

the Heat intensity can be adjusted in the difficulty settings. WHY isnt there a setting for the parachutes' survivability??

You see It's serious as more players are forced to register and leave comments like this

[OddFunction]

..."KPS is not a difficult game"......"KPS is not a difficult game"......"KPS is not a difficult game"...

is the new mantra everybody repeats, when the question of whether or not game certain changes after 1.0.x are meaningful. Don't get me wrong but I think I speak for everybody else who is bothered by those changes when I say that the new parachute dynamics are ANNOYING AS HELL. Simple as that... and the controls that go with them can't change the fact. Not in stock anyway.

think about this situation:

as of 1.0.x I was forced to install 2 separate mods (stage recovery and real parachutes) only to be able to achieve the simple goal of landing my empty stages safely. Well, as it is in stock right now I forgot how the landed debris icon looked like, because nothing makes it back in one piece.

ever since 1.0.x I found it annoyingly difficult to land manually controlling the parachutes and almost impossible if you rely solely on the automatic arming settings.

And notice how one of those mods just cheats the game engine not to calculate physics but just assume parts with parachutes land.

the main point being:

the Heat intensity can be adjusted in the difficulty settings. WHY isnt there a setting for the parachutes' survivability??

You see It's serious as more players are forced to register and leave comments like this

While I agree that there should be an option for parachute survivability I am seriously having a hard time believing that it is such a big issue. Keep the returning vehicles mass low, approach so you have a very shallow orbit (30km is good) and set SAS for retrograde. Got a slightly bigger return vehicle? Slap a drogue and several extra chutes on there. STILL going too fast? Three or four aerobrakes will give you even more stopping power. There's really nothing else to it. No secrets, no tricks.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by the "think about this situation" because as far as I'm aware stage recovery works just fine in the latest patch and actually doesn't have anything to do with parachutes burning up?

Personally I like where the chutes are now. It gives you a task during re-entry; pay attention to your speed and angles. When I first played KSP the chutes were glitched (unbeknownst to me) and you could "arm" them in orbit and they would automatically deploy at like 20km and would never burn up and landed you safely 100% of the time. Compared to then the new system is a major improvement IMO.

"You see It's serious as more players are forced to register and leave comments like this"

If you really feel that way then please do continue to post. Don't make it just a one time thing! One comment probably won't be seen by many people, but if you continually advocate for a feature as an active member of the community, you never know what will happen.

Edited July 24, 2015 by OddFunction

[SeeGreen]

Mengo and Reese - dead on. No fun any more. Had enough.

[mengo]

Keep the returning vehicles mass low, approach so you have a very shallow orbit (30km is good) and set SAS for retrograde. Got a slightly bigger return vehicle? Slap a drogue and several extra chutes on there. STILL going too fast? Three or four aerobrakes will give you even more stopping power. There's really nothing else to it. No secrets, no tricks.

you didn't read my comment and yet you begin to lecture me that AGAIN "KPS is not a difficult game".

... even the DEPLETED stages after launch can't be landed safely.... those that don't even leave the atmosphere... ; does this seem realistic to you ... the empty stages just need to plummet down and destroy buildings from the space centre...

even when I put ridiculous amounts of chutes on them they hardly ever make it back, because the NEW PARACHUTES ARE STUPID and need to be manually activated for satisfactory results (....and this just breaks the career mode, because with every lunch you sacrifice half of the funds that can otherwise be recovered)

I hope I made myself clear this time.

[Claw]

Maybe we shouldn't necro a thread to start a possible altercation.

If you would like a new method of deployment for chutes, then I recommend posting some ideas in the development and suggestions forum.

Cheers,

~Claw