1.03/1.04 Reactions

[Brotoro]

I expected 1.0.3 was mainly going to be fixing heating issues and tweaking reentry heating of capsules vs. spaceplanes trying to reach orbit... so I was surprised when an aircraft I had been playing with in 1.0.2 (a variation of ADELINE) would not fly in 1.0.3/4. Apparently quite a bit got changed in the aero model. So now I'll have to go back and check all the other craft I've been getting ready for my next missions.

I look forward to the time when Squad will quit making major changes to the aerodynamics model.

[Reactordrone]

Heatshields, which have always been marginal in terms of effectiveness for mass, are now useless since the ablator can't withstand the heat spike. Airbrakes give much better survivability for lower mass. Drogue chutes are also now pretty pointless with a 300m/s safe deploy speed compared with a 200m/s speed for the main chutes there's virtually no difference in deployment time and altitude to justify fitting them.

I thought the aero in 1.0.2 was pretty well balanced.

[selfish_meme]

On OS X seems to run with no crashes. Which is a great step forward on Mac.

So so far I'm happy

I discovered Non Linux 64bit users have another option now to to play the game at 64bit on a non-linux machine (note does require second computer). Steam streaming for KSP finally works. I was playing 64bit yesterday with all the glorious EVE mods on my 2011 macbook at good frame rates.

Not sure when it started working, I try every now and again, but this is the first day it has ever worked for me.

[steve_v]

While the last round of updates did indeed beat the aero model into shape (and I'm fairly happy with it, but will continue to use FAR), the new thermal system introduced with 1.03 still appears to have a few bugs.

I'll be happy with it when random things stop exploding and cargo bays work as expected.

Bring on 1.0.5, but no more mucking with aero please.

- - - Updated - - -

Steam streaming for KSP finally works.

And VirtualGL streaming on GNU/Linux has worked since day one, no steam required

[SoWeMeetAgain]

had no option that fit ...

it fixed some problems and introduced some new game/savebreaking ones

I thought I was buying a finished product but this feels like we're still testers that not only do not get paid but rather do pay themselves

[katateochi]

In terms of the games "intent" i.e how craft behave in terms of physics/aero, I'm mostly happy.

In terms of performance and implementation, I'm far from impressed and feel there is a LOT to be done.

In terms of "release grade polish", again, much to be done.

[selfish_meme]

And VirtualGL streaming on GNU/Linux has worked since day one, no steam required

Did not know about that, oh well still happy, I imagine Steam might be a touch easier, select game and stream.

[Nicholiathan]

I've had to restart as all my craft in flight were Krakenized. After 3 days of attempting to repair my save game it was no longer worth the effort. I really appriciate the fixes that were made but I'm sad to have lost all the progress I'd made.

[Captain Sierra]

Due to mod reasons, I continue to operate on 1.0.2.

[frisch]

I'm just waiting for the game to stabilize enough to make playing it worthwhile again. Could you maybe consider long term support (eg a month or tow), and incremental releases or something.

Yes, I can make rockets to go everywhere (except eve return), but with things constantly changing its not really worth the effort for long games. I mostly use RO and its been unusable since 1.0.

0.25 was a good game. 0.9 was a good game. Both were fantastic with RO. 1.0, 1.01, 1.02, 1.03, 1.04 might be OK, if they ever lasted long enough to be played.....

Beta releases are supposed to be function complete. Releasing new atmospheric models after beta sort of defeats the concept.

[Goddess Bhavani]

Due to mod reasons, I continue to operate on 1.0.2.

I'm doing the same, although I will concurrently start up a new -1000 rep career in 1.0.4 and slowly transition to that. I play slowly enough in career that I could easily re-do my primitive orbital stations and probes to Mun and Minmus, while for video making I only need sandbox, anyway.

[Rhomphaia]

No option for "It fixed some things but created more problems."

The new heating system, while nice in concept, is too big a change for such a minor update. Should have been kept back until 1.1 and tested thoroughly.

[RandomRyan]

Cargo bays are friggin hot since ksp 1.0.4

[steve_v]

No option for "It fixed some things but created more problems."

My option of choice too, were it available.

At least 1.0.4 didn't introduce any new bugs, as it really only patched the blindingly obvious one, but the thermal issues from 1.0.3 persist.

Not impressed, TBH. Okay for a beta, where people expect bugs. Pretty disappointing if you just bought the game at 1.0 and expected to be able to actually play it - without having the rug pulled out from under you, repeatedly.

Edited June 26, 2015 by steve_v

[rkman]

Due to mod reasons, I continue to operate on 1.0.2.

Same here.

Between issues still unresolved, new issues introduced, and mod issues, to me 1.0.4 is not better than 1.0.2.

Edited June 26, 2015 by rkman

[Nigeth]

The update has completely ruined my 200+ hour career save. After trying - unsuccessfully - to salvage my save for the last three days I've now given up and resigned myself to that save being lost forever. Since I'm on steam and it auto-updated I can't revert to 1.0.2. Quite frankly I can't see myself continuing to play this game from this point on forward.

I've expected Squad to do extensive bugfixing for 1.0.3. Especially since they stated time and time again that 1.0.3 was delayed due to the testing effort done by the test team. Instead what we got was a half baked new heating system that doesn't work and leads to stuff exploding even while sitting on the launchpad. We also got lots and lots of new bugs, while some of the pre 1.0 bugs are still in the game. That the update also breaks existing save files is just the icing on the cake.

You should never ever release an extensive overhaul of existing systems on a "dot" update. Doesn't matter how much the community whines, complains and begs. Especially if you are a small developer and don't have the resources to hire a 200+ people testing team. Push it to 1.1. offer a closed and/or open beta. let the modders and the community help you find and solve your bugs. Then release it.

As it stands we'll probably need a version 1.0.5 and 1.0.6 or even more versions until the new heating system works entirely. This means that fixing pre-existing bugs and issues will likely be postponed even further (if they are fixed at all). That is if we're lucky and there's no new addition to the game that strikes the fancy of one of the devs and makes them abandon fixing critical bugs for implementing a half-baked heating system upgrade and a handful of poorly done radiators. I'm not looking forward to all the new and interesting kinds of bugs that'll never get fixed once they switch to Unity 5.

I have no words for how Squad handles maintenance of the core game except to say that they've done poorly over the last few months. I can't see myself continuing to play a game that breaks core gameplay and existing saves with what - by all intents and purposes - should have been a maintenance release and doesn't even put the time and effort in to make sure things work.

Squad in the future if you do something like this

- announce it well beforehand for gamers to be able to prepare themselves

- offer a closed beta program to modders prior to release so that modders can update their mods and make sure that their code doesn't break stuff further

- in fact you should always have a beta access program for modders

- offer beta access to players or MVPs to broaden the testing group. Let the community help you find and squash bugs

- if the update breaks existing games give people notice or even better give people the ability to revert to previos stable releases.

- - - Updated - - -

Most importantly: Actually fix the issues people report to you. These forums are full of reports of "legacy" bugs that have been a part of the game since one beta version or another. Some people have already resigned themselves to the fact that some bugs will probably never get fixed. The fact that a "stock bugfix modules" mod exists is telling and should tell you that you're not doing your job actually maintaining your game.

That a mod like "stock bugfix modules" exists should also tell you that people - including myself - love your game enough to put up with all of those issues and actually take fixing issues into their own hands. If your game weren't that great people wouldn't even care enough to bother fixing your stuff.

Don't squander all of the passion and love for your game people have

[Tankman101]

I don't get the whole "Mechanics shouldn't be changed on a _" theory. It seems to be motivated more by selfishness than anything. Basically saying "They shouldn't balance it because it hurts my sensibilities."

Apparently Squid should forever ride a wave of mediocrity.

[Nigeth]

That's not what I said so please don't put word into my mouth.

Also what you really need to keep in mind is the fact that people are currently playing this game and may have invested a lot of their free time and energy into an ongoing save. 1.0.3 was announced and "marketed" as a maintenance release to fix issues with the new stock aerodynamics model.

A maintenance release should never ever break existing saves. Unless it is absolutely necessary and there can be no way around it. If you communicate a release as being purely maintenance you should never ever use it to do a major overhaul of an existing in-game system. The reworked heating system they've introduced with 1.0.3 potentially breaks many many mods and actually broke a lot of existing game files.

This has lead to people not being able to play for days or even weeks until all of the mod developers have caught up with the changes introduced in a patch that was communicated as a bug fix release. This has also led to people actually losing their whole progress (potentially hundreds of hours of gameplay) due to save files that are now broken beyond repair. If by some reason you still think you need to do it you damn well make sure that everything works.

This doesn't mean that you should never update your game and "forever ride a wave of mediocrity" as you so melodramatically put it. It just means that you have to plan your release schedule (and effort) accordingly.

A major rework of an existing in-game system should never be done like the way Squad introduced their new heating system. Without any prior warning or announcement and with no way for people to test it and plan for its eventual release. You might get away with this during alpha or beta but not once your game is officially released.

[Tankman101]

That's not what I said so please don't put word into my mouth.

It was more of a mini-rant than anything, not targeted specifically at you.

I've just seen a lot of people say things like "Squad shouldn't change mechanics after release" and "Squad shouldn't change the mechanics after 1.0". Yours was a bit better, but I just...

I don't get it.

Without any prior warning or announcement...

They warned us waaaaay ahead of time.

Like, 3 weeks ahead of time.

[Nigeth]

They told us that there would be a release that fixed a few of the bugs and tuned a few of the values introduced by the new 1.0 stock aerodynamic model. They never never said that they would instead completely rework one of the core game-play mechanics. If you can't see that those two things are different and vastly differ in scope and potential repercussions then I don't know what to say to you.

Also a third time just to be absolutely clear. No one claims that squad should never ever "change mechanics after release", that's just your interpretation. What people instead are trying to say is that depending on the scope of the change and the amount of stuff changed you need a different approach to how you release your updates and communicate those changes to the community.

[Tankman101]

They told us that there would be a release that fixed a few of the bugs and tuned a few of the values introduced by the new 1.0 stock aerodynamic model. They never never said that they would instead completely rework one of the core game-play mechanics.

No they told us that the heating system was being reworked. It was in a Devnote Tuesday. If you don't read those, you probably should.

Also a third time just to be absolutely clear. No one claims that squad should never ever "change mechanics after release", that's just your interpretation.

Oooooooh it's been said alright.

[Nigeth]

For example they could have introduced those changes with the 1.1 release that will give us Unity 5 support. A release that will potentially break all of the things anyway and so probably will go through an extensivr testing and beta phase. THis would have given modders and interested players enough time to prepare for its eventual release.

- - - Updated - - -

So now we're yet again at the point where the "if you don't read all of the forums and all of the blog posts it's your own fault" defense comes out. I could dissect the whole official communication of Squad prior to 1.0.3 now to try and prove to you that they haven't said what you claim they said but since you've already made up your mind I can't really be bothered. Rest assured that even if you are completely right and I'm wrong it still doesn't make the way Squand handled this any better.

So let's just agree to disagree on this.

[Tankman101]

So now we're yet again at the point where the "if you don't read all of the forums and all of the blog posts it's your own fault" defense comes out.

Nope, just the Devnote Tuesdays (They're posted on Reddit as well). It's where the devs and PR guys fill the community in on the happenings of KSP. Which is exactly what you are looking for.

EDIT: Looks like it was a squadcast, not a devnote tuesday. So yea, they could have done a tiny bit better.

So let's just agree to disagree on this.

Agreed

Edited June 26, 2015 by Tankman101

[Pinchy]

I was watching a livestream yesterday with Ghost and he was also saying that his save file was corrupt and lost. I totally agree that the Save Files should not be corrupted with the update - this is unacceptable. I didn't suffer the same problem and my save file seems to be fine (fortunately) but clearly there are a number of issues that haven't been tested properly.

I get random crashes for unknown reasons at adhoc occasions running some Mods - so don't know if it is the Mods causing them or the stock game - annoying but have learnt to accept them and that fortunately for me I am so addicted to the game, that I put up with the issues as there isn't an alternative to this great game.

[Ryds]

I haven't played a career game at all since 1.0 due the fact that I realised the bugs in each iteration would probably generate career ruining patches. It has been most frustrating. When I say "haven't played", I mean have started but then dropped them once the bug reports start surfacing. I'm pretty bored now of doing the initial grind on a contract game, just can't raise the motivation knowing that there will be a Unity upgrade soon that will also send everyone back to zero. This Unity upgrade, going on past experience, will then lead to more game breaking bugs and career breaking fixes.

Squad needs to fix the bugs when they are reported, whether the fixes are game breaking or not, so my frustration is purely personal in as much as I cannot play my favourite mode of the game to completion. On the other hand, Squad if you're reading - you would do everyone a massive favour if you would commit to and state something along the lines of:

"We will keep tinkering with 1.0.4 until all the bugs are sorted - after that we expect there to be at least a n month wait until 1.1 on Unity 5 is released. This will give career players an approximate time to enjoy the career mode and modders to catch up without worrying about having to start over again after 4 weeks."

It would allow everyone involved, from yourselves to modders to players, to catch our breath and get back to enjoying the game for a decent amount of playtime.

Thanks!