Homeschooling?

[Xannari Ferrows]

You obviously feel strongly about the subject, but it is totally unclear to me what your message is.

Well, if I sound rude, I am sorry for it. This is just a very, very sensitive subject with me and them. It's like knowing information about a radical conspiracy, but no one believes you, no matter how dedicated you sound. Or how you observed a crime take place, but just because of your "official" memory track record, your story is dismissed.

This literally feels no different.

The first is correct. Parents and school play a pivotal role. Even if the parents neglect their duties and the school drops the ball, their role is pivotal, even if just by not providing. But please, keep semantics out of this.

Are we trying to define "role" differently?

[Camacha]

Well, if I sound rude, I am sorry for it. This is just a very, very sensitive subject with me and them. It's like knowing information about a radical conspiracy, but no one believes you, no matter how dedicated you sound. Or how you observed a crime take place, but just because of your "official" memory track record, your story is dismissed.

This literally feels no different.

I am just not sure what you are trying to convey. It seems (but I could be wrong) you see some inherent flaw in the system as it stands, yet it seems that the story fails to account for the multitude of different options and approaches out there.

[Xannari Ferrows]

I am just not sure what you are trying to convey. It seems (but I could be wrong) you see some inherent flaw in the system as it stands, yet it seems that the story fails to account for the multitude of different options and approaches out there.

Multiple options is never the solution, that is one thing I am talking about.

INCOMING BAD ANALOGY:

You have 5 shipments coming to your house. Each package get it's own box, but the packaging space would be much bigger than required, therefore more inefficient.

Do you keep it as is, or do you tell them to send every order in a single box, but keep everything separated with specially formatted bubblewrap/packing peanuts or whatever? It is more space efficient, the orders will arrive all at once, and in the original condition they would've came in anyway had they not been separated.

Schools need that special bubblewrap, rather than separate packages.

[Camacha]

Multiple options is never the solution, that is one thing I am talking about.

[...]

Schools need that special bubblewrap, rather than separate packages.

That is what I am trying to say. There is a plethora of systems and subsystems out there, all having some degree of flexibility within the system too. There is bound to be something that comes close to what is needed. The flexibility of the system and of the student will do the rest. For the remaining very special cases there is special education, which is extremely tailor made. I mean, there are public schools, science schools, religious schools, free learning schools, nature schools, schools that emphasize creativity, schools for high performing kids, schools for slow learning kids... You name it and there is probably a school system for it.

If you do not fit in any of the systems to a degree of not functioning at all, I am not sure the system is to blame. And, yes, this might differ from country to country, as some will have more developed constellations of systems than others.

[Xannari Ferrows]

That is what I am trying to say. There is a plethora of systems and subsystems out there, all having some degree of flexibility within the system too. There is bound to be something that comes close to what is needed. The flexibility of the system and of the student will do the rest. For the remaining very special cases there is special education, which is extremely tailor made. I mean, there are public schools, science schools, religious schools, free learning schools, nature schools, schools that emphasize creativity, schools for high performing kids, schools for slow learning kids... You name it and there is probably a school system for it.

Multiple bubblewraps for multiple packages. But each package is different, so what good is the bubblewrap if you always pack it the same way? Our special bubblewrap is one that packs whichever way you want it, except when that shape a 4D sphere. Each package is supported to it's own characteristics, and then shipped off to it's destination, where it will live the rest of it's life in best condition, and get to do what is was made for; it's dream.

It's not even a case of how you package something and load it either. It also depends on what route the delivery man drives on.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Xannari Ferrows

[Camacha]

Multiple bubblewraps for multiple packages. But each package is different, so what good is the bubblewrap if you always pack it the same way?

They do not, as I explained in my previous post. One group will do it one way, while another will use sawdust, and a third will strap it to a pigeon.

[Xannari Ferrows]

They do not, as I explained in my previous post. One group will do it one way, while another will use sawdust, and a third will strap it to a pigeon.

But what if I want to use packing peanuts, but the only place nearby will use air bags? I don't want to use airbags. Turns out the nearest place is to use packing peanuts is so far away, I'd have to get up before the sun ascends to 18 degrees above the horizon and bike for several hours to get down their. By now, I'm exhausted, and there's no Mtn. Dew in sight.

Will I be forced to use air bags? Technically no, but there's no reason I should have to deprive myself of Mtn. Dew that long- err, I mean put so much strain on myself every day just to get somewhere I want to go, and can hardly do anything there anyway since I'm asleep most of the time.

They should allow me to use packing peanuts.

[Flymetothemun]

They do not, as I explained in my previous post. One group will do it one way, while another will use sawdust, and a third will strap it to a pigeon.

What about packing peanuts? Moulded styrofoam? The venerable, traditional Newspaper? A bit of butcher paper? Suspension with a system of elastic bands? Personally delivered with you driving your vehicle carefully? Plus, who the heck uses sawdust? Awfully messy. And pigeons are SO 16th century.

(Sorry, thought the discussion could use a bit of comic relief. It's getting a bit "heavy".)

[Camacha]

But what if I want to use packing peanuts, but the only place nearby will use air bags?

Geography is something that can be dealt with. You can hardly blame the systems for that. Of course, systems will only work with some effort to make it work. No one will cater to your every need without investing in it yourself too.

[tater]

Home schooling is a pretty weak option, IMO. My wife and I are both science people, read a lot of literature, have many outside interests, and have both taught at some level, and homeschooling was not even on the table for us---not because we could not do a good job, but because we didn't think it was in the best interest of our kids. Socialization is meaningful, as is having a life of your own, which kids at school actually have. We know people have done it, and while they have groups they work with for social/educational activities, you then end up with a peer group that is dominated by the demographics of people who elect to home school. Some do so for reasons like "there's not enough calculus in 4th grade," but more do so because "there's too much science in the science." I don't want my kids' peer groups to be dominated by the latter.

[Camacha]

Home schooling is a pretty weak option, IMO. My wife and I are both science people, read a lot of literature, have many outside interests, and have both taught at some level, and homeschooling was not even on the table for us---not because we could not do a good job, but because we didn't think it was in the best interest of our kids. Socialization is meaningful, as is having a life of your own, which kids at school actually have. We know people have done it, and while they have groups they work with for social/educational activities, you then end up with a peer group that is dominated by the demographics of people who elect to home school. Some do so for reasons like "there's not enough calculus in 4th grade," but more do so because "there's too much science in the science." I don't want my kids' peer groups to be dominated by the latter.

Of course, supplementing real schools with your own knowledge or ideas is very viable. Like you say, doing it all from scratch is a lot harder.

[Xannari Ferrows]

Of course, systems will only work with some effort to make it work. No one will cater to your every need without investing in it yourself too.

So why not deliver yourself rather than risk damaging the package by giving it to the postal service? They wont use packing peanuts, even though you need them for the most efficient transfer. It'll be more work on you, but if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.

Next comment will either be 15 minutes from now, or 3 hours later in the hospital if I delay anymore...

Edited June 28, 2015 by Xannari Ferrows

[BagelRabbit]

Let me just say that...

I was homeschooled before it was popular.

~~~

Okay, I'm about as far from a hipster as they come. I admit it. But I was homeschooled before it was a widely considered to be a viable option.

Basically, I've never been in a great financial situation. This was made worse by my (pardon me here) giftedness and the lack of schools that could cater to my level.

It was cheaper to get me textbooks and have me read them and test myself than it was to go to a more expensive school for the gifted. So, my family decided to go for the former option. And so it was: I read textbooks for several years, going from basic to advanced. I did pretty well with this - I managed a 35 (out of 36) on the ACT and a 2330 (out of 2400) on the SAT. I do wish, however, that I could have interacted with more students during this time. (Many of my fellow homeschoolers were fundamentalist Christians, and without getting into religious discussions, it was often difficult to talk with them. I'm not sure if it's still that way though.) I am far from an anti-social guy, but it would have been nice to interact with other people more often.

So, here is my advice to you, based on your post:

I want to be homeschooled next year, because I'm just kind of bored being with the same people every day. it's not that i don't like my friends, but it's just that I'm tired of doing the same thing every day.

If this is a big reason why you want to be homeschooled, don't do it. If you are bored by being with the same people every day, you will be bored out of your skull being with nobody but your parents (wonderful though they may be) for maybe four or five days out of the week.

Even though it may not seem like it, homeschooling, when done properly, involves a lot of doing the same thing every day. While you may think you can go to parties or meet up with new people, it's a lot more difficult than you probably think it is, and it won't happen as often as you think it will.

And if I were homeschooled, my brother probably would want to be also. He goes to the same school, so they would lose 2500 dollard for him too. [A total of 5,000 dollars would be lost.]

If I were one of your parents, how do you think I would feel if I suddenly asked to be homeschooled? "I've put down 5,000 dollars for what I think is best for you and your brother, and you suddenly want me to change things up and be homeschooled instead? I understand that you want what's best for you, but now isn't the best time to ask about this. How about discussing whether you want to be homeschooled next year."

Your parents probably won't be a tremendous fan of this plan unless you give them ample notice ahead of time. If they come to grips with homeschooling gradually, they might be more in favor of it...

I also find that a lot of my classes are really easy. I just want to have education suited for me, not what my school thinks will get us into college.

To be fair, this is the reason I was homeschooled as well. I do think that your school has a point in giving you classes that will help you get into college though. Many colleges will actually put you through a general-education set of classes, and you may find some of them quite easy, but is that a reason to drop out of college? Not really. Perhaps you'll get a job that's quite easy (and quite boring); should you quit it? Not necessarily. Just because something is quite easy doesn't mean that it's not worth doing.

If anything, I would recommend seeing a guidance counselor and explaining to him or her what's going on here. If all else fails, it may be best to transfer to another school after the coming school year is over. It'll be a change of pace with new people, and it may be able to offer you better classes. There's a time and a place for homeschooling, but it seems as if you would probably do better in a more conventional establishment.

At the end of the day, though, your opinion is the only one that really matters. After all, the rest of us are just people discussing Kerbal Space Program on an Internet forum.

-Upsilon

[Camacha]

So why not deliver yourself whether than risk damaging the package by giving it to the postal service?

Because teachers are professionals and curricula are developed according to research and experience. Let me reverse that analogy: would you rather be flown by a trained professional, or someone that once saw an aircraft on a picture? Parents, even with the best intentions, are almost always less equipped to supply a child with what he needs. Sometimes there is no other option, because, for instance, parents live somewhere in the absolute middle of nowhere, but it still is not ideal.

To be fair, this is the reason I was homeschooled as well. I do think that your school has a point in giving you classes that will help you get into college though. Many colleges will actually put you through a general-education set of classes, and you may find some of them quite easy, but is that a reason to drop out of college? Not really. Perhaps you'll get a job that's quite easy (and quite boring); should you quit it? Not necessarily. Just because something is quite easy doesn't mean that it's not worth doing.

This is true. A couple of additional and related things come into play:

- When you are younger you often lack the experience to judge what it useful and what not. I gave children learning to eat vegetables as an example earlier. Sometimes you need to trust someone else's wisdom.

- Even with experience, you do not know what might turn out to be useful or beneficial later on. I often have done things that were not very relevant at the moment, but which turned out to be very useful lessons or skills later on. Inspiration or knowledge regularly comes from experiences not related to the subject at hand.

- Life simply is not about only doing what you like and want. Even in the best jobs you will need to do things that are not so enticing. Learning to deal with those things early on is valuable. Looking at myself I also learned some humility doing things I did not really wanted to do, which was welcome, or maybe even needed.

[Xannari Ferrows]

Because teachers are professionals and curricula are developed according to research and experience. Let me reverse that analogy: would you rather be flown by a trained professional, or someone that once saw an aircraft on a picture? Parents, even with the best intentions, are almost always less equipped to supply a child with what he needs. Sometimes there is no other option, because, for instance, parents live somewhere in the absolute middle of nowhere, but it still is not ideal.

I would be okay with learning from a trained pilot, as long as I learn what I want to know, nothing more. Going up, looking good so far... "Okay, now perform an aileron"

No. I hate the feeling of going upside down. "But it's required" I'll fly the plane down and leave before I do that. "Okay, it's cool. You don't have to"

Good.

If I want to learn how to fly myself, I'll start with the engineering principles. How to operate this, that, what this does... And after a while, I get it. Now for a test flight: A simple straightshot, followed by an Immelman maneuver to turn around, then a slow and steady descent from there. Make sure to bring along safety equipment just in case anything goes wrong. Over time, I get into more advanced flight, while at the same time developing my own personal flying technique.

Going to flight school. "Oh, you have no official training. You'll have to start with the basics to get into the advanced classes." No, I am an expert pilot. I'm taking the advanced classes or not coming here at all. So I leave there promptly...

I go to another school that has no such requirements. Great, we learn the technicalities of flying, what flight maneuvers are called, how long they have been used... This is ridiculous! I know all this stuff! Also, this isn't history class! So I leave there as well.

All I need to know for my life is what I want to know for my workstation, and for my own interests. I have no desire to learn anything else. Whatever I can do with the knowledge I have will have to suffice.

What I need is up to me.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Xannari Ferrows

[Camacha]

I would be okay with learning from a trained pilot, as long as I learn what I want to know, nothing more. Going up, looking good so far... "Okay, now perform an aileron"

No. I hate the feeling of going upside down. "But it's required" I'll fly the plane down and leave before I do that. "Okay, it's cool. You don't have to"

Good.

That is the problem. How are you going to gain expertise if you do not trust the opinion and experience of an expert? Without being an expert or even experience, you are not capable of making that judgement call. Doing everything only the way you want it is a nice idea, but not very realistic. No job in the world only has things you want in them, and no lesson can be thorough if it only includes the things you feel like doing.

For the rest I am going to refer you back to my previous post. There are good reasons to learn or do things you do not think are useful.

This is true. A couple of additional and related things come into play:

- When you are younger you often lack the experience to judge what it useful and what not. I gave children learning to eat vegetables as an example earlier. Sometimes you need to trust someone else's wisdom.

- Even with experience, you do not know what might turn out to be useful or beneficial later on. I often have done things that were not very relevant at the moment, but which turned out to be very useful lessons or skills later on. Inspiration or knowledge regularly comes from experiences not related to the subject at hand.

- Life simply is not about only doing what you like and want. Even in the best jobs you will need to do things that are not so enticing. Learning to deal with those things early on is valuable. Looking at myself I also learned some humility doing things I did not really wanted to do, which was welcome, or maybe even needed.

All I need to know for my life is what I want to know for my workstation, and for my own interests. I have no desire to learn anything else. Whatever I can do with the knowledge I have will have to suffice. What I need is up to me.

The world does not revolve around you. Not around me either, for that matter. Expecting to be treated like a special snowflake can only result in disappointment. No employer is going to put up with that and neither are customers - which is probably one of the reasons why school systems do not cater to the group.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Camacha

[Xannari Ferrows]

That is the problem. How are you going to gain expertise if you do not trust the opinion and experience of an expert? Without being an expert or even experience, you are not capable of making that judgement call. Doing everything only the way you want it is a nice idea, but not very realistic. No job in the world only has things you want in them, and no lesson can be thorough if it only includes the things you feel like doing.

It's not that I don't trust the opinion of an expert. I went there for assistance in developing my flight technique, not to follow the ideals of someone else. I cannot go upside down without feeling nauseous, so I will not, for example. "But it's a helpful thing to know fo-" No. Unless you want puke on you, no.

What does the history of flight have to do with flight right now? Knowing it wouldn't improve my experience, nor help with skill development. The only reason you would ever need to know such information is to either pass it down, or... Actually, I think that's it. Passing down knowledge like this to me isn't helpful in any way. I can't travel through time and meet these people; It wasn't written in the records.

The world does not revolve around you. Not around me either, for that matter. Expecting to be treated like a special snowflake can only result in disappointment. No employer is going to put up with that and neither are customers - which is probably one of the reasons why school systems do not cater to the group.

That's exactly what I don't expect. I expect to be treated as a fair being who wants nothing more than to live her life. Not anyone else's, not what might be better, her life as she wants it to be. That's not asking a lot.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Xannari Ferrows

[Camacha]

It's not that I don't trust the opinion of an expert. I went there for assistance in developing my flight technique, not to follow the ideals of someone else. I cannot go upside down without feeling nauseous, so I will not, for example. "But it's a helpful thing to know fo-" No. Unless you want puke on you, no.

Sounds like the guy was helping you develop flight technique, you just refused to let him. Honestly, I see no issues that you did not cause yourself. Of course, you can always indicate that being upside down nauseates you. If not vital for the training, it will most likely be taken into account.

That's exactly what I don't expect. I expect to be treated as a fair being who wants nothing more than to live her life. Not anyone else's, not what might be better, her life as I want it to be. That's not asking a lot.

You want people to treat you exactly the way you want it. It is not just asking a lot, it is asking for everything. The fact that you think otherwise might be telling. The world is not perfectly designed around your wishes, and your wishes are not perfectly suited for your needs.

[Xannari Ferrows]

Sounds like the guy was helping you develop flight technique, you just refused to let him. Honestly, I see no issues that you did not cause yourself. Of course, you can always indicate that being upside down nauseates you. If not vital for the training, it will most likely be taken into account.

If I say I will not go upside down, I will not go upside down. Nothing will convince me otherwise. So, it's either we proceed with something else, or I leave. That's not my problem; I don't control how my body reacts to it. I cannot will myself to go upside down and not puke. Now, I would be alright with an Immelman, since the Gs keep my brain from dosing too much blood at a time, especially considering the endurance.

You want people to treat you exactly the way you want it. It is not just asking a lot, it is asking for everything. The fact that you think otherwise might be telling. The world is not perfectly designed around your wishes, and your wishes are not perfectly suited for your needs.

Is living a simple life much to ask? All I wish is that I pursue my interests. There should be absolutely no reason why that's asking a lot. The life I am living is one with a simple house, basic life support, a good view of the stars, a telescope, and some technology.

Did I ask a lot when I wished for this life a while ago?

[Camacha]

All I wish is that I pursue my interests

You ask everyone to cater to your interests, and only and exactly those interests. That is asking for quite a lot. Without pretending to be any sort of authority, it seems to me that things will improve as soon as you recognize this. I will leave it at that, and wish you all the best. If I have not been able to convey my point in my previous messages in this topic, additional posts are not going to either.

[Xannari Ferrows]

I will leave it at that, and wish you all the best.

Then we shall part, effectively having accomplished nothing, other than a little chat. I bid you good day.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Xannari Ferrows

[Camacha]

Then we shall part effectively having accomplished nothing

I learnt a couple of things from this discussion. This might be because I was open to the possibility of learning and improving myself.

[Xannari Ferrows]

I learnt a couple of things from this discussion. This might be because I was open to the possibility of learning and improving myself.

I cannot allow myself to make a contradiction, so I guess I'm not there with you.

[Brethern]

If I say I will not go upside down, I will not go upside down. Nothing will convince me otherwise. So, it's either we proceed with something else, or I leave. That's not my problem; I don't control how my body reacts to it. I cannot will myself to go upside down and not puke. Now, I would be alright with an Immelman, since the Gs keep my brain from dosing too much blood at a time, especially considering the endurance.

Is living a simple life much to ask? All I wish is that I pursue my interests. There should be absolutely no reason why that's asking a lot. The life I am living is one with a simple house, basic life support, a good view of the stars, a telescope, and some technology.

Did I ask a lot when I wished for this life a while ago?

So what are you going to do when the plane decides to go upside down for whatever reason?

Reality check here, life doesn't always go the way you want it to go, you will be forced to do things you don't want to do.

[Xannari Ferrows]

So what are you going to do when the plane decides to go upside down for whatever reason?

Reality check here, life doesn't always go the way you want it to go, you will be forced to do things you don't want to do.

Eject.

Never can you be forced to do something.