Science Points & Tech Unlock Overhaul Idea

[Patrick Kerbivan]

I posted this on the KSP subreddit last night and got some positive feedback, so I thought I'd bring it over here for a little more persistence.

With all the mods available to increase the depth and realism of KSP, I feel like the system of unlocking tech with general-purpose science points has some potential for improvement as well.

What if science points were broken down into categories for different types of knowledge such as physics, chemistry, materials and engineering, and planetary science? Different experiments would yield points for the relevant disciplines:

• Mystery goo could yield chemistry points.
  
• EVAs and surface samples could yield planetary science points.
  
• GRAVMAX would yield physics points.
  
• And so on.
  

Nodes on the tech tree would then require relevant combinations of points to unlock:

• Rocketry would mostly need materials and engineering.
  
• Ion engines would need more physics with a splash of chemistry.
  
• New experiments, scanners, etc. would require planetary science and a bit of whatever type the experiments themselves yield.
  
• And so on.
  

To retain a degree of flexibility in this the scientists could have added field specializations so that when they remove results from an experiment the proportions of the points are skewed a little more towards their field. Don't have any more chemistry experiments available yet, but you need more chemistry points to unlock a new one? Send a chemist to run a planetary science experiment and get a chunk of the points back in chemistry instead. Possible additions to this could be:

• Scientist levels increase the amount the results' points favor their discipline.
  
• Specialization could either be a random predetermined attribute, or every level a scientist gains could grant a point that the player can then assign to a discipline. A level 4 multidisciplinary scientist would be able to get points for all 4 fields from an experiment that otherwise only covers one or two fields.
  
• Rather than having a materials and engineering specialist, engineer kerbals could function as specialists for that field.
  
• Mobile labs would have their science output type influenced by the specialization of the crew on board.
  

Contracts could also be modified to respect this system as well:

• Part tests would distribute their science yield according to the unlock costs of the tested part's tech node.
  
• New satellites would yield planetary science, and if a particular instrument is required on the satellite then also some from the discipline that instrument's experiment yields.
  
• New stations would yield materials and engineering with a dash of planetary science.
  

To further adjust the balance of science points there could also be new strategies similar to the financial bailout, allowing an instant exchange of science from one field for a less amount from another. There could be a monetary cost as well, with a higher commitment costing more funds but increasing the amount of science you get back in the other field. Ideally this wouldn't really be necessary if I get the experiments' outputs and tech node costs balanced properly.

Speaking of balance, my intention would be to balance the disciplines' points around the stock tree, but as a heavy user of mods myself I would have every intention of enabling support for the Community Tech Tree and any other popular tech tree mods that come along. My plan is not to mess with the overall number of points produced and required, just to divide them between disciplines, so an experiment that yields 30 science in stock might yield 18 planetary science, 6 chemistry science, 3 M&E science, and 3 physics science.

This is all just an idea at this point of course, and all the fields and part/experiment associations are just examples. I'm sure this would be a pretty massive undertaking to implement, but if enough other people find this idea as exciting as I do then I'd definitely be up for taking a crack at this and/or recruiting as necessary to make it happen!

Edited June 30, 2015 by Patrick Kerbivan
Added link.

[Feradose]

This totally fixes the science problem of "Temperature readings from Tylo surface. Here have some ION engines and RTGs."

This is genius, and youre a genius... Lets see if this ever gets stock.

[kiwiak]

It proably wont get stock..

But i woudl look forward to mod introducing this. Of cource with dmagic integration.

[tater]

I've posted a bunch about this since my first post here... the whole science/tech paradigm is weird.

#10

Here's that post (edited a bit):

I'd divide science/research/tech tree in a different way.

Planetary Science

Spaceflight Science

Medical Science (assume the kerbs get life support at some point).

The Tech Tree would be completely revamped. Each tree component would have some or all types of points required to progress. So for example new lander pod tech would be say 60% Spaceflight Science Points, 20% Medical Science Points, and 20% Planetary Science Points (made up %s ). Most rockets engines might have just Spaceflight Science Points, for example.

Planetary Science (PS):

---Mapping (orbital flights)

---Surface samples

---Geology (seismic, etc)

---Atmospheric data

These would give points mostly towards making better instrumentation for doing this kind of science. The mapping, combined with landers could map out resource areas (assuming this is added). This is a benefit outside the tech tree (you know where to build a mining base).

Spaceflight Science (SS):

---Space measurement sensors (orbital, and at the different distances from Kermin/Kerbol, etc). The "environment" of space to make better stuff, in other words, these might give points to 2 or even all three branches of science).

---Returned craft (how they held up)

---Time in flight (just plain experience feedback from pilots (perhaps weighted by their stupidity?))

---Spaceflight milestones (orbiting worlds, first docking, etc).

This type of data gives points to virtually everything on the new tree.

Medical Science (MS):

---Time in flight (their medical condition over time, there can be experiments or station pods to test medical stuff)

---Returned craft feedback

---?

Medical is just "life support" issues. These points would go towards habitat tech, including any manned elements of spacecraft.

In general tech would require points from each, or different "science."

The tech tree might in fact be tied more closely to the contract idea. Spitballing, here...

You get a broad contract from Kerlington to develop a new command pod. It has parts. The first is a manned, orbital flight in a Mk1 pod of some set duration. It might have another requirement for a certain reentry (XXXX-XYYY m/s at 69,000m alt). Another might be to lift 5 tons to LKO or something, then deorbit it and land safely with parachutes. These are "SS" experiments, while the time in orbit is a MS experiment and the reentry is PS. You'd be doing the science to get THAT item by contract. At some point you get it provisionally to test. Obviously this could be tuned to tech tree groupings, not single items. Perhaps you pick a node to work on, and it lists the required points needed from each discipline of science, then you design missions to accomplish those goals, contract or not. In this case, the specific node might have additional requirements that look sorta like contracts. Meaning that you need PS points, but out of the 10 you need, 5 must be gathered at an altitude from 30-60km for this node.

Without mapping, perhaps the map view of a world shows little data. the Mun would be decent from telescopic observation, but Dres? Maybe a flat picture with only rough altitude information. So you can land your probe, but using the map to deorbit to a certain location… not helpful, it's seat of the pants flying.

[Patrick Kerbivan]

This is genius, and youre a genius...

Aw shucks... Please, save the complements for when (if) I ever get this working. I'm still in the very early stages and am quickly comprehending how much I'm going to have to teach myself to make this happen.

Of cource with dmagic integration.

Of course! I'm still pinning down the exact mechanics and and making sure I can do what I want to without breaking other stuff, but supporting mod-added experiments is a big priority. If it can work out the way I'm hoping then mod authors should be able to just include a little tag in their experiment definitions to dictate how the points get split between the disciplines.

I'd divide science/research/tech tree in a different way.

Planetary Science

Spaceflight Science

Medical Science (assume the kerbs get life support at some point).

The breakdown to disciplines is still up in the air, and will be an easy thing to tweak once the mechanics are operational. I was leaning towards a biology/medical discipline, but it seems to be the least relevant to the majority of techs. Even for players with life support in the mix that's still a rather small fraction of all the tech to be unlocked.

[tater]

Medical would be for manned parts.

Generally speaking, the entire notion of science vs tech in the game is wrong. Space programs develop new technology to suit mission goals, they don't do missions to learn how to make new technologies. KSP is set up as if the Apollo program would have needed to send stuff to the moon in order to develop stuff to send to the moon. It's bass ackwards.