MechJeb vs non MechJeb

[322997am]

I personally think KSP does not need to be "super realistic so nasa tests their designs on it" KSP is meant to be fun and not have the computer do everything

[Nothalogh]

I personally think KSP does not need to be "super realistic so nasa tests their designs on it" KSP is meant to be fun and not have the computer do everything

So, in one thread, we've gone from

MechJeb is unrealistic

to

MechJeb is too much realism

I believe I must now go rescue my sides from a Kerbol escape trajectory

[kiwi1960]

Anyone watch a "sci fi" space flight movie form the 1950's???

Of the number I have seen, the "rocket" carries 1 reporter, 1 engineer, 1 pilot and at least 1 scientist and his female assistant ... the last two are always been yelled at by the pilot for a new course and he is told "not long now" as they use paper, pencil and a slide rule to work it out... yeah right.... NASA never uses them, not for Apollo or anything... they use computers and an autopilot.

STOP living in the 1950's... if you like doing it the hard way, then good. If not, good.

If you ever fly on a Jet, do you run up and down the aisle yelling that the Captain is cheating when he uses the autopilot????

No...

Is playing KSP cheating, YES. its not real, if you want it to be (your kind of) real... then Join .... no, not NASA, join the North Korean Space Program.... they still use floppy discs....

[Nothalogh]

If you ever fly on a Jet, do you run up and down the aisle yelling that the Captain is cheating when he uses the autopilot????

And here I had to figure that out the hard way

- - - Updated - - -

Is playing KSP cheating, YES. its not real, if you want it to be (your kind of) real... then Join .... no, not NASA, join the North Korean Space Program.... they still use floppy discs....

Hey now, those FAT-16 formatted HDDs on Columbia STS-107 were key to data recovery from the wreckage

[Green Baron]

Anyone watch a "sci fi" space flight movie form the 1950's???

Of the number I have seen, the "rocket" carries 1 reporter, 1 engineer, 1 pilot and at least 1 scientist and his female assistant ... the last two are always been yelled at by the pilot for a new course and he is told "not long now" as they use paper, pencil and a slide rule to work it out... yeah right.... NASA never uses them, not for Apollo or anything... they use computers and an autopilot.

STOP living in the 1950's... if you like doing it the hard way, then good. If not, good.

If you ever fly on a Jet, do you run up and down the aisle yelling that the Captain is cheating when he uses the autopilot????

So we definitely need two new professions in KSP :-)

btw., the last big jet crash in the US (B777 in Frisco one or two years ago) was caused by the autopilot (which was missing data (glide slope ?)). Yes the autopilot was falsely handeled by the crew before someone else points that out ... but it was the autopilot. They can crash at least as good as humans, maybe in a less creative way ... and these bastards (the autopilots) allways ponit to the user when blamed for having caused a catastrophy :-)

None of my games has, up to now, reached the 50s. New versions regularly prevented that ...

Back to the poll: i tried mechjeb in the beginning of my career (a year ago) and realized quickly that it was not perfectly effective and it doesn't add to my playing experience, so for my playstyle ker serves me more.

But i appreciate the work and efforts of modders ! I just don't use all of them ...

:-)

k

Edited July 8, 2015 by kemde

[Col_Jessep]

I used MechJeb a long time ago but I wanted to get better at piloting. Uninstalled it and got KER instead. My piloting skills have improved significantly since then. I don't think MJ is cheating if you know what you are doing but I prefer doing stuff myself now. The only thing I miss is the automated maneuver node execution. But KSP's "aim at node" is almost as good.

[kiwi1960]

See, the responses to my last post means we are all in agreement!

We all play to the styles that suit us. My being disabled means I appreciate the help of Mechjeb. Even if you don't use it, most say they appreciate the work of the modders.

Live and let live.

When .90 came out, and before Mechjeb was updated, I did decide to put my Sputnik into orbit by hand, you know, to welcome in the space age for my Kerbals. I did it, piece of cake, and WHY was I able to do it? Because Mechjeb taught me how to do it, mind you, it was a funny orbit... but any crash landing you can walk away from is a good one... same for my Sputnik orbit.

I then launched Jeb into orbit by hand, and got him down again safely.

Those two events taught me one thing... for basic seat of your pants flying, its easy. But anything beyond that, I need mechjeb.

One other thing it taught me... or rather, maybe its because of Mechjeb that I figured out, recently, that I have been playing it all wrong. You see, I never uses SAS or anything like it, so, when playing without Mechjeb, my rockets acted more like a skyrocket with no steering wheel... holding a course was impossible... so, I *needed* Mechjeb.

But now, knowing what I do, I probably could pilot a ship to the moon, well, at least a probe, landing is a whole new kettle of fish.

So... I'll admit it... using Mechjeb means you learn, but it doesn't really teach you about flying a spaceship at all... only the basics... THAT would be a good start for noobs... learn the basics.

Mechjeb is an AID.... not the answer to everything. I fully intend to take over from Mechjeb at some point in the flight for all my unmanned flights so I can learn to do it myself... even with the disability I have (double vision caused by MS) ... but that is one thing... is NASA cheats, then so will I for all the basic routine flights. Does it hurt anyone else? NO.

[Nich]

Actually modern fms systems can takeoff fly and land all by themselves with no input from the pilot. But that is a job and I do not play ksp to work. I think I would like to have access to the sas dampening filters in flight so I can keep ships from shaking apart or waisting a ton of electrical power on momentum wheels on a ship by ship basis.

[Phil deCube]

Mechjeb. Any technologically advanced civilization is going to build computers. We already have them in KSP for object tracking and manoeuvre node planning. It makes sense to use computer technology to pilot spacecraft as well. Send a body along if you need someone to get out and push, or plant a flag.

[lajoswinkler]

MechJeb is cheating though.

Actually, using any mods is cheating. Feels good to be 100% stock again...

Place bets on the admin to lock this thread? I think RIC is online but invisible, so my bets on him...

How is using mods that make your gaming more difficult cheating?

MechJeb is a form of cheating, I agree, but not all mods are. For example Deadly Reentry, FAR, RemoteTech, TAC lifesupport, ... They are all intended to make our gaming lives more difficult.

[Nothalogh]

I think I figured out why so many are opposed to autopilot/flight computer functionality in KSP, it's lore breaking, as Kerbals don't have dogs.

As the old joke goes:

"What's going to be in the cockpit of the future?"

"A person and a dog."

"A dog? Why a dog?"

"Well, the dog is there to keep the person from touching the controls."

"Why have the person then?"

"Someone has to feed the dog."

[rdwulfe]

I've used MechJeb in the past, so I'll vote for it. I'm using only KER currently. I do miss MechJeb's SMART ASS functions, mostly for holding a specific heading and angle, I often used that during launches so I could be more precise, and really wouldn't consider it cheating, more fly by wire.... which most modern high tech aircraft use because they're damn near un-flyable without it! It's Interplanetary stuff was nice, too.. but I don't need it. I get amused when someone freaks out at me and calls me a "cheater" because I used MechJeb, or tells me that they're superior somehow. (Yep. Had people in the KSPTV channels do that.)

You can't really cheat in a single player, sandbox game. You play it how *you* want to, with your own inner dialogue and story. My little Jebbies and Vals, not anyone elses.

EDIT: Also, I loved the functions to circularize orbit, or change to a specific inclination. KSP has no function to tell me where I am in my orbit or what my inclination is. I play with mods that give contracts that want VERY specific orbits. VERY. To within .5 % accuracy, it seems.... so yeah, without KER, impossible. MechJeb would make them less tedious, I just haven't bothered with it.

I also play the game with quickload and reverts turned off, so any problems must *Really* be dealt with.

Edited July 9, 2015 by rdwulfe

[chd]

I just switched from MechJeb to KER, and I have to admit a lot of things are much more difficult... but, I think I'll work with it for awhile anyway, just for grins.

[Kegereneku]

I feel offended to be told that Mech-jeb is "easy mode" as if we were less worthy for using it.

I use Mechjeb :

- When I want to automatize dumb task that require no skills.

- When I'm bored to do manually stuff I already know how to do better (I coerce MechJeb into doing interplanetary plane change).

- When I want tools so I can pilot with more skills than possible with a simplistic interface.

- When I'm looking for some real efficiency, not some unworthy stock-level ....ty overengineering (sarcasm), to do more using less.

- When I want to snack while admiring my rocket working at peak efficiency.

- Between the parts where I really want to pilot myself.

Not to say that Mechjeb should become stock (except obviously all the dV/TWR information) but there is no differences between using it or challenging yourself to play with primitive control interface.

It was my totally unbiased opinion.

[Juicy]

Non-mechjeb. Eyeballing and guessing just feels more Kerbal to me.

[Red Shirt]

Hi, My name is Red Shirt and I use MJ. (hi red shirt) I started without MJ and sloppily learned to orbit and reenter. Once I watched MJ in action a few times I learned how to do these things better. I can, I just usually don't. The thing is, many times MJ does not behave as expected. For instance, I used the stock Kerbal X for a Mun landing and return. The only change I made was adding MJ (obviously) and radiators because the new areo/heat is killing me - and Jeb way too often. So course corrected for 50k closest Mun approach after transfer burn, warped to the change of SOI node, and what do I find? The ship is on a collision course. Maybe, if you understood the options better with MJ you could fix this. I don't. You can't just raise the Pe. So I manually burned to a Pe of 15k. On the return trip, MJ wanted to kill us all, I had just enough fuel to manually set a Pe of 35k for reentry. MJ is a great tool sometimes. Sometimes it is not. You have to know the difference and know how to do when it acts up. I use it because I want to, and I am not ashamed.

[harby]

i like to achieve something with out mechjeb, first orbit, first interplanetary transfer whatever. I did it. i learnt how to do it. i write a program to teach my on board computers what i did. mechjeb now in use. mech jeb doesnt always do what you want. switch off your auto pilot, revert to manual. thats how it works in the real world, thats how it works for me here. not cheating, just using an aid sometimes.

[Pixel of Life]

Non-Mechjeb. I use KER, Pilot Assistant and the stock SAS functions.

[lajoswinkler]

If you let Mechjeb do all the things for you, you aren't really playing the game, are you? It's being played in front of your eyes. It's like playing a car racing game with an autopilot. Why would you bother even playing it? You might as well watch "let's play" on YouTube.

[Technical Ben]

It's a simulator. It's a flight game. What and who is doing what when? Are we really flying? Are we really controlling the craft?

/metaphysical jokes.

I totally get to decide where mechjeb goes and what it does. I tend to do flights myself once or twice. A lot of testing or flights require 5 or more launches/landings, 5 or more transfers etc. So after 25 or more, I'm happy Mechjeb works! (It currently is not burning my nodes right now, so I have to put the cup of tea down, and make sure I'm not reading the webpage and miss the burn. However, if I fly 100% manual, I get half the launches done)

[Varsi]

If you let Mechjeb do all the things for you, you aren't really playing the game, are you? It's being played in front of your eyes. It's like playing a car racing game with an autopilot. Why would you bother even playing it? You might as well watch "let's play" on YouTube.

If KSP is a game where you fly spacecrafts around then it's like you said. For others KSP might be more about designing and planning and the flying part is just a simulation to see if your creation actually works.

[klgraham1013]

If KSP is a game where you fly spacecrafts around then it's like you said. For others KSP might be more about designing and planning and the flying part is just a simulation to see if your creation actually works.

Exactly. I don't use autopilot, but there's so much more to KSP than merely flying.

[Randazzo]

If you let Mechjeb do all the things for you, you aren't really playing the game, are you? It's being played in front of your eyes. It's like playing a car racing game with an autopilot. Why would you bother even playing it? You might as well watch "let's play" on YouTube.

Yes and no. A better analogy would be a racing game in which you drove the pace lap, then were forced to coast for the next 240 days until you hit the finish line... with the exception of a tiny adjustment you would need to make at 97 days in. Then back to coasting.

Mechjeb doesn't do anything unless you tell it to do so, and something that seemingly everyone overlooks is that you can tune the Autopilot function to be far more precise on a per-vessel basis, rather than just leaving it in HAL-9000 mode and hoping for the best.

[KOCOUR]

Sandbox, definitely Mechjeb, doing things yourself is fun for the first, second maybe third time. But, doing for example my 4th or 5th roadtrip to mun manually when there is way to do it automaticaly? I would feell a bit stupid.

Career? Currently play without mechjeb, but once ill have all the pilot abilities unlocked, and most of the techtree reaserched, and ill start doing mining, ill install mechjeb back on.

Edited July 9, 2015 by KOCOUR

[lajoswinkler]

If KSP is a game where you fly spacecrafts around then it's like you said. For others KSP might be more about designing and planning and the flying part is just a simulation to see if your creation actually works.

I'm focusing at the flying. Some people just make stuff in VAB and then HyperEdit it above Laythe and make nice screenshots. That's not cheating because they're using the game for a different purpose.

Yes and no. A better analogy would be a racing game in which you drove the pace lap, then were forced to coast for the next 240 days until you hit the finish line... with the exception of a tiny adjustment you would need to make at 97 days in. Then back to coasting.

Mechjeb does not control coasting. It controls adjustments, and that robs you of fun and learning. There's tons of things one could learn about orbital mechanics in an awesome way if one fiddles with maneuver nodes. Not to mention when it comes to landing. So much fun is taken away if you just "press key to adjust" or "press key to land there". For me, that's not playing KSP. That's witnessing the simulation doing its thing.