MechJeb vs non MechJeb

[TimePeriod]

The thing is, regardless how much automation you put into an aircraft/rocket/spaceplane you will still need a pilot to tell the aircraft where to go.

Thus, you can never eliminate the piloting aspect of a given air/spacecraft.

Example A) You want Mechjeb to get into orbit. Thus you have to tell MechJeb to get into orbit. You are now the pilot.

Example You want MechJeb to do an interplanetary transfer, you will have to tell MechJeb do it.

Example C) You want MechJeb to do a powered landing on Eve, you MUST tell MechJeb to do this.

As soon as you are taking an active participation in the controlling(directly or indirectly) of the aircraft, YOU become the pilot.

And by pilot, I am referring to ANYONE who is in direct control, indirect control, in the present-time, in the past-time or in the future-time. That can be a service-technician doing some adjustments to the flight path on a automated drone 2500km away. It can be an active pilot flying the aircraft while it is in the air, it can be 50 people on the ground in a giant room. Someone, somewhere will have to take an active action in order for the air/spacecraft to do something. Thus we have our pilot(s).

You WILL have a pilot for an aircraft, if you like it or not.

End of friggen story.

Edited July 7, 2015 by TimePeriod

[KSK]

Sounds reasonable to me. I'd actually be happy to see d/v and TWR figures put into the stock game. Maybe even a *really* difficult-to-unlock Tracking Station option for calculating launch windows - that would be really neat. I just don't ever want to see anything approaching "autopilot mode", or "here's what will happen if you launch this".

Cheers.

On that last point, I quite like the way that Kerbal Construction Time does it. You can simulate your flights all you like - for a price - before the actual launch. You can also start the simulation anywhere you like, from the launchpad to Eeloo orbit - again for a price. It's a nice way of having the game tell you 'here's what happens when you launch this' but it's still entirely up to the player to do the engineering and design iterations - that part doesn't get any easier.

I don't have KCT installed at the moment but being able to sim my flights really appeals to me for the reasons described earlier and might also make me more inclined to try hard mode. Of course you could reasonably argue that sims do take much of the point out of a 'no revert' mode.

[TheSoundOfTrees]

I use MechJeb often. I also fly-by-hand a lot, but I prefer, most of the time, the precision of MechJeb. I use Kerbal Engineer all the time. I prefer to play, for now, in Science Mode, and only buy new science when I think I've done all I could with the one I have.

Anyway, my goal while playing is to find the appropriate way to accomplish the missions I set myself too, and my take on it is more strategy than "simulator".

It may be easy mode - but it's what I want from KSP.

My (chosen) job is planning mission, and finding the best experts to help me : Jeb's job is flying the ship. Bob's job is telling me the science I need to know, and Bill is there to take care of the engineering. If I have the right mods

[obi_juan]

I like more the way that Kerbal Engineer show the data...

But I use MechJeb when I don't have time to make carefully "Execute Node"... When you need to send the 4th colony ship to another planet is a bit annoying.

Usually I only use it to make a lot of repetitive tasks...

[Mikki]

I use engineer redux, its enough information for me to have lots of fun with firing up vegeta... ermm Kerbals.

Mechjeb is not cheating in my opinion, its a tool like any other.

I greet all who use neither, you are the true "noncheaters":wink:

A stock deltaV and TWR readout would be great somehow, but having anything means not having it "all". Do we need anything?

Edited July 7, 2015 by Mikki
Typo:)

[oversoul]

Who cares what anyone else does in their own single player game?

Only RockStar does, and we all know what douches they are.

I love this discussion though: I imagine a sweaty astronaut, his gaze locked on the navball, main engines blazing, annunciators quiet (for now), his right hand on the attitude control, and his left hand poised over the "ABORT" button. Cause that's how every launch ever has happened. hah

Reading "Flight" right now about Chris Kraft's career and they are getting into the Mercury program; those astronauts didn't control jack FYI.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Red Iron Crown
Easy with the language, please.

[Randazzo]

2 - skill

3 - skills

We're flying pretend spaceships with keyboard button presses.

Such silliness.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Randazzo

[kiwi1960]

We're flying pretend spaceships with keyboard button presses.

Such silliness.

+1 ... here, have some rep.

[flintlockmusket]

Guess I'll chime in on the discussion. As far as I'm concerned, MechJeb and a lot of other mods, are tools, to be used to enhance to game play. I use MJ to teach me how to play the game better. The same goes for a lot of other mods and aids that are available. If one feels like not using a mod, for what ever reason, then that is that persons prerogative. The fact that I can learn by doing, trying different ideas out, some that work and others that end up in nasty fireballs, gives me the feeling of growing a space program. Without the aids that have been provided, by the hard work and grace of others, I would feel limited in my play, making me much less likely to continue to play after that first landing, or disaster, or whatever. While some people may feel that using mods is cheating, without the use of mods is just cheating ones self. I believe that one needs to start without mods, get a hang of how thing work within the kerbal universe, then slowly expand your playing experience by adding, and removing, mods, till one has the balance one seeks from the game.

I for one love this game. I love the fact that the community has developed a vast amount of mods for this game. As I play, I also am learning more and more about how to code, learning how to mod the mods to best suit my game style. And more then anything, learning what really works best for me and my computer, and what bogs everything down, which can be unfun. So for everyone out there, play to the game style that best suits you, and only you, and enjoy yourself. For isn't that whats important?

Lastly, thank you community and Squad, for all of your hard work. Please keep it up.

flintlockmusket, i may not be able to touch the stars myself, but i can dream that someday, others may achieve what i cannot.

[The Yellow Dart]

Reading "Flight" right now about Chris Kraft's career and they are getting into the Mercury program; those astronauts didn't control jack FYI.

Yeah, The only reason Gemini and later missions were allowed to control things was due to Mercury astronauts complaining about just being "along for the ride". I think this is the main reason that KSP's manned-first approach drives me so crazy.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Red Iron Crown
Fixed quote.

[SkyRender]

People are free to do whatever they please in a single-player game. Whatever you want to use is fair game. It's your experience, you should craft it to suit your needs.

I don't use MechJeb and never will. I don't enjoy shared experiences (ie. videos, screenshots, etc.) that include it. But that doesn't mean I think people shouldn't use MechJeb. I just think that I want nothing to do with it personally. That doesn't sound like a very good reason for anyone to change what they're doing to me, unless they're for some reason trying to impress me specifically.

[worir4]

Why no mechBob? He, Bill and Val feel left out...

[klgraham1013]

Why no mechBob? He, Bill and Val feel left out...

Bob and Bill aren't pilots, silly.

Patiently waiting for MechVal.

[Superfluous J]

Bob and Bill aren't pilots, silly.

Patiently waiting for MechVal.

We need mech versions of all of them. Too bad there aren't 5. We missed Voltron by '' this much.

[micr0wave]

Why no mechBob? He, Bill and Val feel left out...

sounds almost like a variation of science alert xD

[NeMeSiS]

Mechjeb. I have circularized enough orbits manually to last me a lifetime.

[AndyMt]

I also use MechJeb for some things. For TWR and dV in the VAB and also for some manuevers. Circularizing manually is boring for me. I'm crap at landing on any kind of thing - have ever been (for 40 years) and will always be. So landing somewhere is MechJebs job, de-orbiting is mine.

I have most fun in the game with building and planning stuff. Actual flying only to a certain degree.

But I like to adjust MechJebs maneuver nodes for a transfer to the Mun, for example to get into a certain inclination right away. Or fine-tune aero braking, etc.

[soulsource]

I'd distinguish between using MechJeb for data readout, maneuver planning, or as an autopilot.

• For me an autopilot is something that takes away a lot of fun, as I enjoy the thrill of flying crafts manually (think: adrenaline rush when docking large station parts). If I'm using RemoteTech signal delay, which makes an autopilot mandatory for unmanned crafts, I still prefer kOS to MechJeb, as with it I'm still the one in charge, as it's my code running on the kOS interpreter, and not the code of the geniuses who write MechJeb.
  
• To plan maneuvers, I personally use a spreadsheet. For me it's way more fun to calculate stuff myself, instead of just using the results of MechJeb.
  
• And last, but not least, data readout. This is the one function of MechJeb I'd actually consider using, if there wouldn't be VOID, which does basically the same thing, but in a visual representation that better suits my taste.
  With 0.90 I've been playing without data readout mods, as I wanted the "stock experience", but after building dozens of crafts and always checking wet and dry mass by manually emptying the tanks, it got boring. For this reason I installed VOID again when starting a new save for 1.0.X.
  (In 0.23.5 I did an Eve return mission without data readout mods. There was no mass readout in the VAB, so I added up part masses in a spreadsheet manually. Those were the times...)
  

On the question, if MechJeb is cheating: It's a single player game, you can make (and break) your own rules.

If you don't like piloting, go install an autopilot (or write one yourself either using the modding API, kOS, or kRPC). If you don't like fiddling with maneuver nodes, install a maneuver planner mod. If you got fed up with manually checking the dry mass of your craft, install a data readout mod. It's all up to you.

[Hotblack Desiato]

for quite some time, I thought about mechjeb as being some sort of cheat-tool.

then I started using extraplanetary launchpads and MKS/OKS. and guess what: doing docking after docking, and flying ore-freighters isn't fun. it's actually quite tedious. and I don't like tedious parts in my games. so I'm using mechjeb for those flights, and for dockings (I know how to dock), and for ion-propelled burns (just hit execute next maneuver node, and mechjeb deals with a multi-hour burn )

so, for me, mechjeb brought back the fun into KSP.

oh, and furthermore: the mechjeb-part acts as a radially attachable probe core. that's extremely helpful for some designs.

there are just a few little rules I've set for myself:

1. kerbals don't trust probe cores, especially scientists and engineers don't want to be piloted by a probecore. only probes and unmanned freighters can plot courses with mechjeb.

2. kerbals want something to eat

3. pilots don't want to be flown by mechjeb, unless it's a simple execute maneuver node. they want to be in charge, otherwise they are useless ;-)

[ArmchairGravy]

KER here as well. I can see why people like MJ, but it's not my cup of tea.

[Skorpychan]

I use mechjeb for rendezvous, because they're hard to get right and require stupid timing.

Nothing else, though.

[Franklin]

I get far more satisfaction launching, docking and hitting node windows by hand over letting MechJeb do it, but I can also see how some people see certain motions boring enough to want to automate them. *shrug*

[Zeo]

Short list of things that are "cheating":

- Stock aero.

- Stock heating.

- Stock electricity.

- Stock reaction wheels.

- Stock engines.

- Stock fuels.

- Stock payload fractions.

- Stock ...

MJ? No, not really.

[Captain Sierra]

Considering NASA doesn't fly their rockets by hand, not cheating.

I use KER because I choose not to partake in the automation of flight (because of how big a component of KSP flight is) but I still want data (I refuse to partake in the informational deprivation of stock KSP).

To each their own.

[Jouni]

I enjoy flying the active parts of a mission (e.g. launch, rendezvous, docking, reentry, landing) by hand, but automate interplanetary transfers and other slow-paced sequences of orbital magic. Without the Maneuver Planner – Maneuver Node Editor – Execute Node combination, I would probably have quit KSP soon after the 1.0 release, because routine transfers are dull but require a lot of time and effort.