The Fuel Cell Array is too big

[Foxster]

Just about anywhere I use a Fuel Cell Array it's too big...

Some of its best uses are on small, ion-powered craft and there just isn't the room for these cumbersome things.

In fact, I'm not sure there is a need for them at all. If the individual fuel cell was just 1/6 the mass and produced 1/6 the charge of the array then I'd use them all the time like this...

but unfortunately six of them are heavy and are less efficient compared the bigger unit.

Everyone else happy with them as they are?

Edited July 11, 2015 by Foxster

[Feradose]

There is a single fuel cell unit. Check your utility.

[Foxster]

There is a single fuel cell unit. Check your utility.

Err, yes, that's what I said.

The problem with them is that they mass more than 1/6 of the array and they don't produce 1/6 the charge. So the array is almost always the better option - except for its annoyingly large size.

[G'th]

They don't properly scale to each other? How about that.

For those that don't understand what he's saying, he's saying that the Single fuel cell doesn't properly scale with the larger one. IE, 6 single fuel cells won't perform roughly the same as the larger one, and will weigh more.

While technically the larger one should weight slightly less (because in rigging all of those things together you will lose some degree of material which may or may not be made back up), they should perform roughly the same.

[Foxster]

They don't properly scale to each other? How about that.

For those that don't understand what he's saying' date=' he's saying that the Single fuel cell doesn't properly scale with the larger one. IE, 6 single fuel cells won't perform roughly the same as the larger one, and will weigh more.

While technically the larger one should weight slightly less (because in rigging all of those things together you will lose some degree of material which may or may not be made back up), they should perform roughly the same.[/quote']

Thanks, I wasn't explaining myself terribly well.

Fuel cell array: Mass 0.24, charge 18

Six fuel cells: Mass 0.3, charge 9

Edited July 11, 2015 by Foxster

[Archgeek]

No doubt that's working as intended. Efficiencies of scale, Squeaky Muldoon.

[Captain Sierra]

No doubt that's working as intended. Efficiencies of scale, Squeaky Muldoon.

Double seems awfully large here to chalk up to 'efficiency of scale', certainly not at this lack of scale.

[Xannari Ferrows]

Well being that I only use the array for utility bases and rovers, I couldn't be more please. Especially with my implementation of the Hydrogen cell.

[NecroBones]

MRS inline fuel cell, to the rescue.

[G'th]

No doubt that's working as intended. Efficiencies of scale, Squeaky Muldoon.

That only really applies to making a larger version of the single fuel cell. Six fuel cells should perform roughly the same as six fuel cells rigged to work together.

It doesn't really make sense that rigging the fuel cells together would somehow produce double the output compared to six fuel cells running independently.

[Archgeek]

That only really applies to making a larger version of the single fuel cell. Six fuel cells should perform roughly the same as six fuel cells rigged to work together.

It doesn't really make sense that rigging the fuel cells together would somehow produce double the output compared to six fuel cells running independently.

Whoops, colour me corrected. I didn't read that bit about the half output. By all rights the part should be both more mass and energy efficient (implied that it's using fancier tech inside, plus that fancy bus to the side could be up to some trickery), but that should yield no more than a 20% output improvement, and that's stretching it.

[samstarman5]

MRS inline fuel cell, to the rescue.

http://ksp.necrobones.com/screenshots/2015-07/KSP%202015-07-11%2019-22-42-77.jpg

Unless that actually deals with the interior functions actually being discussed, that isn't going to help with the problem. Nice design, though.

[Tw1]

Doesn't seem too big to me. I but I tend to use it on larger rovers. I guess you're trying to fit these craft into places, or need things streamlined though?

[mikegarrison]

I'm sure the fuel cell array was not intended to be used for such small craft. If you are looking for a smaller fuel cell with double the efficiency, just go into the config file and give yourself one.

[LABHOUSE]

Please, do NOT change it, it is the perfect size for my Apollo replica.

[Commander Zoom]

I do see the guy's point - double the output for one arrangement of 6 cells over another is a little crazy, and should probably be adjusted in one direction or the other.

[Foxster]

I do see the guy's point - double the output for one arrangement of 6 cells over another is a little crazy, and should probably be adjusted in one direction or the other.

Glad you agree.

I think for me the ideal solution would be double the output of the single fuel cell. This would mean 6 would have the same output as the array but the array would weigh a bit less.

[spudman2]

I think for me the ideal solution would be double the output of the single fuel cell.

I honestly feel like doubling the output of the large fuel cell array is the best option at this juncture. That way nobody will use the vastly inferior single cell, and the problem then vanishes.

[Foxster]

I honestly feel like doubling the output of the large fuel cell array is the best option at this juncture. That way nobody will use the vastly inferior single cell, and the problem then vanishes.

Umm, yes, apart from the original problem which is that the array is big. I'd rather have 6 smaller ones I could attach radially or whatever than the one big one.

[mikegarrison]

Umm, yes, apart from the original problem which is that the array is big. I'd rather have 6 smaller ones I could attach radially or whatever than the one big one.

I think you missed the humor.

Anyway, just go into the part cfg file and double the power output, if you feel so strongly about it.

[Foxster]

I think you missed the humor.

Anyway, just go into the part cfg file and double the power output, if you feel so strongly about it.

Humour is tricky to pick telepathically. I'll try harder.

I don't want to mess with the stock parts as, like others, I often share craft designs and that's no longer usually possible if you use randomly self-modded parts.

[mikegarrison]

I don't want to mess with the stock parts as, like others, I often share craft designs and that's no longer usually possible if you use randomly self-modded parts.

So you want to change everybody's stock part to suit yourself, but you won't just change your own stock part, because that would be inconvenient for you. I see.

[Foxster]

So you want to change everybody's stock part to suit yourself, but you won't just change your own stock part, because that would be inconvenient for you. I see.

Actually what I asked was "Everyone else happy with them as they are?" I was just gauging opinion. Do you see me banging on Squad's door for a change?

But I gotta say I think it unlikely anyone would fall down dead if the output of the single cell was increased.

[Rune]

Ok, guys, this is funny and all, but I think we are going a bit over board here...

Foxter, you run into a classic example of gameplay balance. The smaller part has more versatility and scalability, not to mention it is researched considerably earlier, so the larger one get much better mass/electricitynumbers. And it makes perfect sense form a gameplay mechanics point of view! Otherwise, what would be the point of having two? This way, you get interesting design conundrums, even in sandbox, where one is efficient but the other is easy to build with. Maybe you have to go slightly bigger on your ships in order to be able to use two and go all symmetric around the problem? Or sacrifice efficiency for compactness. In any case, an engineering choice.

Rune. I don't want a game where every question has the same solution, that gets boring, fast.

[Joonatan1998]

I didn't even know people even used the fuel cells.

I just skipped over them because solar panels seemed more useful for everything.

I think they should come much earlier in the tech tree.

But I agree that the array may be a bit too much better than the single one.

Maybe have it be lighter, and at most 10% more efficient.