Pro SSTO builder/pilot Challenge

[Nich]

Pro SSTO builder/pilot Challenge

The Peitz Aerospace Corporation wants you to build a new SSTO for their private use. The problem is the Peitz Aerospace Corporation is terrible at flying planes. Because of this it is required that the SSTO is extremely easy to fly and land.

Pilot Requirements

-No saves

-No Reverts

-No Sims

-No Joysticks

-No TACs fuel balancer

-Mech Jeb is ok for informational purposes however the craft must be flown with Stock SAS or no SAS

-Must get to orbit and return to Kerbin on first attempt with a specific craft

Builder requirements

-No saves

-No Reverts

-No Sims

-No TACs fuel balancer

-All testing kredits must be tracked

-Must be a new design (Must be created in the SPH or VAB after accepting the challenge)

-Because all SSTOs are quite similar it is ok to copy a previously working design

THE KICKER

-You do not get to fly your own craft and scoring is based off PRO pilots (detailed above) flying your craft

Points

-1 per 1000 Kredits spent (Subtract recovery value) (negative points do not get multiplied)

-10 per dead Kerbal

+2 per Kerbal rotated at a station (1-6) +1 (7-20) +.5 (21+)

+4 per ton of inert payload delivered to a station or orbit (0-3) +2 (4-12) +1 (13+)

+4 per ton of fuel delivered to a station (units of fuel *5 /1000) (0-3) +2 (4-12) +1 (13+)

Multiplier

1x Kerbin orbit

2x Mun orbit

2.2x Miniums orbit

All others TBD

Badge

If you have safely completed a flight you may apply the Pilot badge

If someone else has safely completed a flight with your aircraft you may apply the Builder badge

If you have done both you may apply the Master badge.

Rewards

700,000 Kredits for builders

500,000 Kerdits for pilots

(I will post directions for modifying persistent file if anyone is successful)

Pro Builders

1. 'Camacho' by GoSlash27(current cost = 0) (best score = 17.05) (12 Kerbals to 150x150)

1. 'Danob' by Nich (current cost = 1172) (Best score = 9.88) (6 Kerbals to LKO 100x100+)

2. 'PB2.0' by GoSlash27(current cost = 2068) (best score = 9.18) (6 Kerbals to 77x80 not much left)

2. 'Stingray' by Starhawk (current cost = 1358) (best score = 4.713) (6 Kerbals to 77x80 good amount of play)

3. 'Probuilder1.0' by GoSlash27 (current cost = 2,906) (Best score = 5.4) (6 kerbals to LKO 100x100)

4. 'Badhat' by Evanitis (current cost = 0) (Best score = 4.1) (3 kerbals LKO 100x100)

5. 'Deliverance' by Scarecrow88 (current cost = 8758) (best score = 1.34) (6 kerbals to LKO)

6. 'Vamanos' by Scarecrow88(current cost = 7000) (best score = -.093) (2 kerbals 1.5t to LKO 100x100+)

7. 'Noobs Friend' by Nefrums (current score = 0) (best score = -.987) (1 kerbal to LKO lots of reserve fuel)

7. 'Haste' by SpaceplaneAddict(current cost = 2,460) (Best score = -6.08) (2 to Duna surface 22 might be possiable)

8. 'Multicord' by Jakalth (current cost = 7283) (best score = -14.44) (2 kerbals to LKO 3.4t)

8. 'A Sandwich ssto' by Jakalth (current cost = 0) (Best score = -16.6) (Minimus -3.4)

10. 'Neagle' by Nich (current cost = 12,905) (Best score = -100+) (Minimus 28.21)

11. 'Space Plane]' by llanthas (current cost = 0) (best score = none) (2 kerbals to LKO)

12. 'Neagle Infinity' by Nich (current cost = 30,215) (Best score = None) (Minimus 54.2)

13. 'SSSP 100' by The_Rocketeer (current cost = 22,000) (Best score = None) (100 kerbals to LKO)

14. 'Barracuda One' by Stoney3K (current cost = 36,255) (Best score = None) (2 to LKO and payload or 6 to LKO)

15. 'Space Whale 1' by Vegetal (current cost = 0) (best score = none) (18 kerbals to Mun)

Pro Pilots1. Nich flying 'Camacho' by GoSlash27 (best score = 17.05) (12 Kerbals to 78x80 a lot left over)1. Starhawk flying 'Camacho' by GoSlash27 (best score = 16.01) (12 Kerbals to 75x75 a lot left over)

1. GoSlash27 flying 'Danob' by Nich (Best score = 9.88) (6 Kerbals to LKO 100x100+)

2. Starhawk flying 'PB2.0' by GoSlash27 (best score = 9.19) (6 Kerbals to 100x100 nothing left)

3. Nich flying 'PB2.0' by GoSlash27 (best score = 9.18) (6 Kerbals to 77x80 not much left)

4. Nefrums flying 'Probuilder 1.0' by GoSlash27 (Best score = 5.4) (6 kerbals to LKO 100x100)

4. Nich flying 'Stingray' by Starhawk (best score = 4.713) (6 Kerbals to 77x80 good amount of play)

5. Jakalath flying 'Badhat' by Evanitis (Best score = 4.1) (3 kerbals LKO 83x85km )

6. Jakalath flying 'Deliverance' by Scarecrow88 (best score = 1.34) (6 kerbals to LKO)

7. Nefrums flying 'Vamanos craft file' by Scarecrow88 (best score = -.093) (2 kerbals 3.7t to LKO 100x100+)

8. Jakalath flying 'Noobs Friend' by Nefrums (best score = -.987) (1 kerbal to LKO 102x103)

9. Jakalath flying 'Probuilder 1.0' by GoSlash27 (Best score = -2.9) (LKO 71x71)

9. Starhawk flying 'Haste' by SpaceplaneAddict (Best score = -6.08) (2 LKO)

9. Nich flying 'Multicord' by Jakalth (best score = -14.44) (2 kerbals to LKO 3.4t)

10. Goslash27 flying 'A Sandwich ssto' by Jakalth (Best score = -16) (6 kerbals to LKO 1t of fuel)

11. Jakalath flying 'Vamanos craft file' by Scarecrow88 (best score = -11.08) (2 kerbals .7t to LKO 100x100+)

12. Nich flying 'Badhat' by Evanitis (Best score = -56.22) (3 kerbals LKO 83x85km )

13. Nefrums flying 'Neagle' by Nich (Best score = -100+) (4 dead kerbals)

14. Jakalath flying 'Neagle' by Nich (Best score = -100+) (6 dead kerbals)

15. Scarecrow88 flying 'Probuilder 1.0' by GoSlash27 (Best score = -100++) (4th attempt)

Edited September 2, 2015 by Nich

[HoloYolo]

So every design that fails we can't revert to? Oh my. Also, can we use KScale2? I have that mod and I wanna see if it's plausible in it.

[Nich]

You can relaunch a design if it fails however you have to add up the cost and kerbals lost. You can also test a design unmaned and get back recovery cost, remove prob core and submit it as your design.

Any mod that is info only is fine. Any mod that makes the game more difficult is allowed and I will give tonnage to it. I have to look up KScale2 but if it is like RSS it should be fine and your pilot will have an even easier time then you

[Evanitis]

Ok. Built the 'Badhat' for you. Based on existing design, but I feel I improved it here and there. Yet to test it, but I have a pretty good idea how will it preform. It won't score high, but even tourists or similarly skilled people can fly it. It has a probe-core for SAS-stuff, and MJ for convenience. It can transport 3 kerbals safely, and I estimate other 3 unsafely. Varranty void if timewarping with 3+ passangers. Let me provide operating instructions:

Upwards:

- full throttle

- point nose to 30 degrees

- press 'SPACE' when it stops accelerating

- press '1' when jets flameout

- circularize at 70K+

Up there:

- use RCS for whatever you went there for

Downwards:

- hold '2' to slow down

- point nose down if you get too slow

- land

EDIT: not sure if I got the rules right - do I get to fly some poor soul's craft or will the Peitz-people test all planes?

Edited July 21, 2015 by Evanitis

[Nich]

Anyone can fly anyone elses craft to get the Pro pilot award.

Your ranking in the builders category is based off the best Pro Pilot score

Don't be disappointed I fully expect most scores to be Negative.

I will fly all craft that have sat around for a day or 2.

Couple questions

1. Did you do any test runs? If so I need the recovery amount and if any kerbals were lost.

2. What do you expect for performance/payload. Currently all my stations are at 80km-100km

Edited July 21, 2015 by Nich

[Evanitis]

Zero, zero... actually, zero on all counts.

I didn't feel the need to test, as I played around much lately with turboram+swivel planes. Checked the numbers, readouts, CoM-CoL, all seems to fit. I believe it's one of the easiest planes to put into orbit and to land. As the cargo here is kerbals, their weitght is zero, so no points there. I wonder how many of them could fit in a cargobay... if someone took the effort to fill it up in the KSC, it could go into positive. I bet it could reach a station on 80-90K, though not with the 'point nose to 30' way. 100k is probably pushing it.

[Nich]

I had to delete the MJ stuff from the file to get it to work on stock.

Well I failed miserably but the craft flew beautifully. I am sure most people will be able to do it successfully. And yes anyone else who wants to attempt the propilot is still free to try. I messed up somehow set PE to 42,000 over ksp using mono prop. Warped around kerbin and my PE was now 65,000. Tried a full tip at 90 degrees to stop in time but didnt make it. The craft didnt stall or flip just moved down to proprage when the reaction wheels were not strong enough anymore. Ditched in the ocean at 45 m/s and the only thing that blew up was the cockpit. Zero heating issues, Battery zero issues, a little too much monoprop for my taste but it made up for the lack of LF.

Cost 33060

recovered value unknown

110 units of fuel delivered to station

3 kerbals dead

3 kerbals rotated

Total = -56.2

ug how do you do imgur albums?

http://imgur.com/a/bC8kL#0

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Edited July 22, 2015 by Nich

[selfish_meme]

edited: Gatecrasher

Edited July 22, 2015 by selfish_meme

[Nich]

Unfortunately selfish I can not accept that design in this competition as it was designed and tested under different conditions and it would be quite difficult to determine the cost of design. If you want to rebuild it then it would meet the design rules technically just be sure to track (via screen shots) how much you spent testing. I would be happy to test it and tell you what you would have gotten or I can wait for a official rebuild.

Any help testing would be greatly appreciated my score on Badhat is easy to beat ...

The true spirit of this competition is designing a new SSTO that works first try and is easy to fly as most of my designs take 100 tries to get the COM vs. COL, control surfaces and and fuel balancing just right.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Nich

[selfish_meme]

Ah, sorry I didn't read the rules properly, I build these things all the time so I will track another.

[selfish_meme]

OK I think I have done it correctly. This craft has not been flown. I just built it.

The SMA HIDC (Hope it don't crash)

The cost of the plane to build is 44435.2

Cargo is 3t of ore

Ah, how to fly, well I would shallow climb off the end of the runway, going really fast until about 20+km doing about 1400+m/s, once I stop accelerating then I would switch with action group 1 to the nuke. Once I had an apoapsis above 70km I would set up a circularisation burn and get on it, cause it's going to take a while with the nuke.

Landing is the same as always, 25-30 degree pitch airbrakes deployed (crap, I just remembered I forgot to turn them off for pitch yaw) once atmosphere is thick enough action group 2 to turn the nuke off and the whiplashes on, land like a normal plane.

Fingers crossed, head between knees, kissing my own sweet ass!

Edited July 22, 2015 by selfish_meme

[Nich]

That is a good looking plane selfish. My entry is quite similar (but a little larger with rapiers). Just to be clear you are allowed to test your own plane you just have to take the cost minus recovery cost. That is then subtracted from the final score of the Pro pilot. Although with the step penalty that kredits incur it may be in your best interest to not test the plane if you are truly confident.

I have already flown mine 4 times just about empty of fuel. Top speed of 200ish 2 times to fix a stability issue and flexing issue (moved the COL and removed the mk2 probe core to a different core in the cargo bay). Flown 1 time at 500ish and got a wobbly feed back from SAS (removed a control surface and changed the part the wing was connected to) The last one went up to 800ish quite nicely so now I am ready to test a full load into orbit. Luckily I have managed to get most of the plane down all 4 times safely. The thing that really surprised me was changing the part the wing is connected to but off setting the wing to the exact same spot improved the wobbliness.

Hopefully I can test it tonight unless someone else can beat me to the punch. I am a little hesitant with no yaw control but all in all it looks good. btw HIDC made me lol (literally at work :/)

[selfish_meme]

I thought about rapiers, but looking at the Lathe SSTL challenge I thought it would be more efficient just to bring liquid fuel, That's my thought anyway, this isn't a Lathe plane, and I don't know if it will make orbit. But I am thinking something along these lines would work, probably without the MK2 parts.

[Nich]

I was unable to get to orbit

Tons of fuel but just not enough umph to get past 1300ish and not enough from the nuke to extend the AP out. Max speed with wips and nuke running was like 1390ish at 26km

Javascript is disabled. View full album

[selfish_meme]

I sort of suspected it wouldn't, it's my first go at a liquid only, Ok I need to reduce weight, which should be easy. I'll fly and recover, let you know the cost. I like this challenge, it's good prep for the Laythe one.

Edited July 24, 2015 by selfish_meme

[GoSlash27]

I have been excited about participating in this challenge, but I had already designed and tweaked out all my designs.

Thankfully, I have found a niche requirement that I don't currently have a design for.

I will design and do the preliminary testing for a new spec:

-Tier 7 or lower parts so users can jump into it the moment they've unlocked the Whiplash.

-low passenger count (4-6) delivery to a station in orbit; generally adequate to staff a single expedition.

-simple, robust, and economical to operate

-exceedingly easy to fly

-low buy-in cost and cheap to operate

I will track the expenditures during the runups.

Best,

-Slashy

[GoSlash27]

Okay, it's ready for whoever wants to try it.

Total expenditures during testing was $2,906. I've checked it out during all phases and it flies great, but it's draggier than I'd like during the ascent. I attribute that to the circular intakes.

This one is built to rotate out kerbals at a station in LKO.

Takeoff at half throttle, rotate at 80 m/sec.

Climbout 15° pitch and full throttle

Transsonic needs to occur during 10km altitude at 10° pitch.

Hypersonic transition to rockets begins at 16 km altitude and ends at 20km, 5° pitch. You should be faster than 1 km/sec when you kick in the rockets. Go for 10° climb initial and taper it down to 5° as you approach 2300 m/sec.

Reentry: Shoot for 45km periapsis over KSC with speed brakes deployed (parking brake).

Handling is absolutely awesome; nice and stable with no vices. It pretty much flies itself.

*edit* Upload link finally available.

http://wikisend.com/download/100740/ProBuilder1_0.craft

Good luck!

-Slashy

Edited July 25, 2015 by GoSlash27

[Nich]

I have finally finished my craft. It took 5 test flights but I feel it was worth every kredit. It was based off my SSTL for the Laythe competition with more control surfaces, power and lift to make it easier to fly. I had a payload set up but forgot to fill it up. It should fly fine with the payload full but might need a slight tweak.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0iPRE-stt2CVWxpNzdwcmJ0bDA/view?usp=sharing

development cost 12,905

6 kerbals to Minimus (could go a lot further)

1156 LF delivered

theoretical score of

19195 cost (-19.2)

6 kerbals to minimus (26.4)

payload .15t (.66)

LF delivered 1156 units (20.35)

Total = 28.21

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Flight path is super easy.

Full throttle, engage SAS, and fly off the runway.

At 200 m/s tip up to 8-10 degrees (if you go 8 you may have to back off the throttle if things get too hot)

At 20km press space to turn on the nuke and switch SAS to follow propragrade

When you stop accelerating press 1 to switch modes on the rappiers

When AP hits 50 km press 3 to turn off rappiers (they should run out of fuel at this time anyways)

Circularize 70x70

Move all fuel to middle tanks

Burn to minimus

Meet up with station

2 opens docking port and cargo bays

I was able to dock with no RCS however I have provided forward/backwards ports for your convenience

Depending on your skill I recommend 200-400 LF for the journey back

Burn back to Kerbin with an AP of 50 km

Move all fuel to furthest up middle tank

At this point my screen shots are wrong always brake with nose up so you fall down in normal flying attitude (I was trying aero turning for more braking but heating is a major issue)

It took me 3 passes above 45 km and the last pass at 45 km blew up the solar panels. (don't dip too low)

Circularize below 100x100

Set PE to 40 km above KSP press 3 to turn on rappiers and 4 to turn off nuke

I also overshot the runway I recommend aero braking until orbit intersects KSP then follow top of propagrade to KSP (lift will keep you on target while slowing down)

Approach speed is 100 m/s

Landing (stall) speed is 65 m/s

- - - Updated - - -

Good looking craft slashy. Those tier 7 ones are tough. What do you think the max LKO orbit it can achieve is? I would test it but I am super drunk. Friends dont let friends play no save no revert when drinking

- - - Updated - - -

Also how do you make a link not show the link but different text like Evantis did?

Edited July 26, 2015 by Nich

[GoSlash27]

Nich,

Thanks, it's just a case of form following function. It looks that way because it pretty much has to in order to work

I didn't check to see the max orbit it can attain, but it can't be much. It's only got 100 m/sec or so spare DV to play with, and that's if you fly it just right.

As for the linkies, it's done like this: (replace the squiggly brackets with normal ones)...

{url=www.insertpagehere.com}whatever text you want here {/url}

Best,

-Slashy

[Jakalth]

Well, hows about I give this a try, with an ssto that displays the Wrong way to go about this. It's a vertically launched ssto with a glider return vehicle. I call it the A Sandwich ssto. It has not been tested, but it is based on an already usable vertically launched ssto I made a while back, so it should work. Should being the key word here. I know the design is not the most efficient, and the lack of powered flight during landing will limit it's landing area, but it has range. Up to 3000+ Delta-V once it reaches orbit. That is if it works the same as my last design.

This ssto is equipped with a "hidden" ai core *cough* the drone core just in front of the engines *cough* so your two "pilots" can pretend they are true rocket jockies as the drone core actually does all the flying. It can bring up an additional 4 passangers and deliver them to an orbiting space station around Kerbal, the Mun, Minmus, and possibly to other locations as well.

Launch:

1: make sure front end is pointing to space. This is very important.

2: set throttle to full

3: activate the skipper engines and release the launch docks. (tap the space bar) leaving the Nervs deactivated for now.

4: climb altitude taking a normal rocket to orbit trajectory

5: once the skippers flame out, which should be at or at least near Orbit, activate the Nervs to finalize the Orbit by pressing spacebar

6: once orbit is achieved, you can drop off the two Parking orbit markers by decoupling their docking ports.

7: Yes, the two tanks are parking orbit markers, that's why they are bright orange. What's this "debree" nonsense...

8: Win

In orbit:

1: Use SAS as much as possible to due maneuvers. It has RCS, and Monopropellant for them, but it's supply is not the greatest.

2: With the two parking orbit markers dropped off, stop calling them debree, it hurts their feelings, you have two docking ports available for docking maneuvers.

3: the Nerv engines do not have a large amount of thrust, so orbital correction burns will take a while to complete

4: There should be more then enough solar collection to keep the craft going for the long haul, but just in case, try to keep the crafts top or belly pointed at the sun as much as you can.

Landing:

1: This craft is designed to reenter Kerbal airspace with zero or at least very little fuel remaining. Having fuel on board will effect glide performance.

2: This craft should be able to glide well even at low speeds. although it's theoretical stall speed should be at around 50m/s...

3: Use the brake button to deploy the airbrakes during reentry to help slow the craft down.

4: the airbrakes are only used for braking... the drag they produce, if used to turn, could have negative effect on glide performance.

5: Try to keep it's flight speed up to, or above, 100m/s, by varying it's descent rate, to give you enough speed for final landing maneuvers.

6: during landing you'll probably loose the 2 lower vertical stabilizers(canards), this is normal.

Total cost to build/launch: 82,418

Passanger total: 4 passangers and 2 "pilots"

can deliver up to 1200LF too kerbin orbit but safer to say: 1,100 units of liquid fuel.

What would cost be of placing it on the runway to make sure it holds together, but not launched, and recovered for full cost? This might effect cost score...

Score...

82,418 - 52,486(value of returned ssto on landing) = 29932 (-30.0)

6 Kerbins to Kerbal orbit, Mun, Minmus, possible Duna or even further. (26.4 for Minmus score)

Payload: two parking orbit markers, enough with the debree jokes, serously...(N points)

Fuel delivery: 1,100LF to kerbal orbit (5.6 tons = 11.2 points)

total= -3.4 points.(theoretical score)

actual total might be far worse if it doesn't work... I'm quite nervous about uploading this craft... O_o

Edited July 26, 2015 by Jakalth
missed something

[Nich]

Ha Ha ok I will tell you what I will do. Because you made me laugh If you drop off your orange parking markers at a station I will count them as payload (seeing as gas stations can always use more tanks)

And yes you can launch the craft and it should recover for the same value. If it crumbles and blows up you will have to subtract the launch cost - recovery (dont put any kerbals in it )

Also am I doing the LF calculation correctly I have 1100 LF = 8.8t or 17.6 points

[Jakalth]

I did the LF calculation in the space plane hanger, by removing the fuel and checking the difference in total weight. So, probably less accurate then your calculation. I also doubt this will be the most efficient craft. But oh well, it's silly and that's what matters for this entry at least.

We'll see how it all goes when someone actually tries flying it. I'll have to give it a try myself, now that it's uploaded, and get a more accurate baseline of how it flies.

As for the Payload, it's basicly 0 since their empty anyways. heh

:Edit:

Ok, umm, yeah... How did I make that big of a mistake? It can't even take off LOL It's just a bit too heavy. Good news, let it burn for a few seconds and it'll eventually lift off. But, I kinda crashed it... and it blew up... and everyone lived, somehow... So for my own craft, I think I just got a score of -100 something... Ouch... but it was just too funny to not post something here.

she's just got a little too much fuel weight in the upper rockomax tanks, the grey ones. Half full and she takes off just fine, all be it slowly.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Jakalth

[ihtoit]

I'm throwing 1,000+t SSTOs up all the time, but since I use the Luvodicus Super Atomic and Poseidon's Revenge engines (that some might consider OP but they do suffer SL performance hits as other nuke engines) for my heavy lifting and SSTO work, I won't be entering.

[Nefrums]

There seams to be more builders than pilots so here is a noob friendly ship:

Craft file: Noobs Friend

I have not tested it, but it should work.

It has enough fuel to reach orbit and land twice. It even has parachutes if you don't dare to try to land it the harder way.

Any flight profile will do but i recommend:

• accelerate to at least 1500m/s bellow 20000m before pitching up and going to orbit.
  
• accelerate to ~450m/s at sea-level before starting to climb.
  

I'll try to fly some of the other ships posted here later tonight.

[Nefrums]

I have tested "Pro Builder 1.0".

I cant even remember the last time i flew a non rapier SSTO. I should have read the instructions before I tested it...

It handles well with a slight tendency to tilt left, Reaching orbit, docking and descending was no problem. I kind of botched the landing a bit.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

5 kerbals deviled to a station in LKO

Credits spent: 3693

Edited July 27, 2015 by Nefrums