Finally - particular wanted news - announced for 1.1

[Jart]

Real life probes are controlled by remote control.

Examples

Mars rovers

New Horizons

Rosetta

Hubble

Yep plenty of scripts are involved but situations change or specific challenges must be updated and redefined.

As we are able to put more computer power on a probe, the role of them is able to change.

our probes are evolving

Edited July 23, 2015 by Jart

[tater]

Real probes also have programs for contingencies (point back home, safe mode, etc), and all that have to land are entirely programmed for that function, you don't remote-control land on Mars, though you might tell it "OK, land in X minutes" then it executes the burn, chutes, retros, etc autonomously.

[Guest]

It really does seem like RemoteTech lite. Casuals will turn it off. Realism fans will use RemoteTech.

Mmmm, no. RemoteTech isn't entirely realistic until you pepper the planet with control points (ala Realism Overhaul, which gives you a sort of DSN). The new stock option looks to be a great compromise and will be more realistic, from that aspect at least, than RemoteTech.

[Jart]

Real probes also have programs for contingencies (point back home, safe mode, etc), and all that have to land are entirely programmed for that function, you don't remote-control land on Mars, though you might tell it "OK, land in X minutes" then it executes the burn, chutes, retros, etc autonomously.

Rosetta had to pick a place to land on an asteroid with unknown parameters. This was not programmed previous to launch. We are not in the 20th century any more.

[Branjoman]

I think a good penalty for not being in contact with Kerbin on a kerballed ship is that you lose telemetry data, like patched conics and manuever nodes because all that data would be provided by ground control (ie. the tracking station), which you no longer have access to.

[rkman]

Rosetta had to pick a place to land on an asteroid comet with unknown parameters. This was not programmed previous to launch. We are not in the 20th century any more.

The landing location of Philae was not chosen by Rosetta but by the Landing Site Selection Group, which took them 6 weeks.

http://sci.esa.int/rosetta/54468-selecting-a-landing-site-for-rosettas-lander-philae/

[klgraham1013]

Mmmm, no. RemoteTech isn't entirely realistic until you pepper the planet with control points (ala Realism Overhaul, which gives you a sort of DSN). The new stock option looks to be a great compromise and will be more realistic, from that aspect at least, than RemoteTech.

Yeah. Since the announcement, I've learned a bit about how we actually do things. I may have jumped to conclusions.

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I think the only thing I'd really like to add to the stock system is signal delay and a probe computer.

[Jart]

comet/asteroid, no difference with the exception of composition...

poorly worded comment on my part

[Col_Jessep]

The landing location of Philae was not chosen by Rosetta but by the Landing Site Selection Group, which took them 6 weeks.

http://sci.esa.int/rosetta/54468-selecting-a-landing-site-for-rosettas-lander-philae/

And a fat lot of good it did them when Philae decided to hop over to take a nappy in the shadow after its 12-year flight.

[klgraham1013]

And a fat lot of good it did them when Philae decided to hop over to take a nappy in the shadow after its 12-year flight.

Space is hard.

[Edax]

Why would anyone think an elaborate relay setup would be needed to communicate with spacecraft never farther away than Mars is from earth near closest approach? New Horizons is vastly farther than anything in the Kerbol system, and uses just ground stations. Voyager and Pioneer as well.

Although as I understand it, the uplink rate for New Horizons is 1/kbps.

I do wonder if this new update would justify building a Mun base on the farside so that interplanetary transmissions will always be received, and a pilot always ready to take manual control if signal is lost with Kerbin. Though it sounds like the Mun blocking Kerbin wont effect signals so I wonder if it'll be toggle-able via difficulty.

I wonder if I'm the only one not thrilled with the idea of a land-based relay network. Upgrading buildings isn't the most thrilling gameplay KSP has to offer. I'd rather built and attach a giant relay system on my Kerbin Orbital Space Station so that the station has more of a use then as a gas station and bus stop.

[Guest]

I do wonder if this new update would justify building a Mun base on the farside so that interplanetary transmissions will always be received, and a pilot always ready to take manual control if signal is lost with Kerbin. Though it sounds like the Mun blocking Kerbin wont effect signals so I wonder if it'll be toggle-able via difficulty.

I think "soft occlusion" basically means you'll only be occluded by the planet you're orbiting.

I wonder if I'm the only one not thrilled with the idea of a land-based relay network. Upgrading buildings isn't the most thrilling gameplay KSP has to offer. I'd rather built and attach a giant relay system on my Kerbin Orbital Space Station so that the station has more of a use then as a gas station and bus stop.

While this may sound like a lot of fun for new players once you've logged a few thousand hours it just looks like tedium. If that's you're cup of tea RemoteTech offers excellent gameplay in that vein, especially if you're just using their standard setup with one control point at KSC. Then you need relay networks and all sorts of other assorted rote work.

Using the defasult setup for RO/RSS, with its multitude of control points, I still have to launch a few relay sats early on to make sure I can complete a fully controlled launch (as I don't use automation).

[Edax]

I think "soft occlusion" basically means you'll only be occluded by the planet you're orbiting.

While this may sound like a lot of fun for new players once you've logged a few thousand hours it just looks like tedium. If that's you're cup of tea RemoteTech offers excellent gameplay in that vein, especially if you're just using their standard setup with one control point at KSC. Then you need relay networks and all sorts of other assorted rote work.

Using the defasult setup for RO/RSS, with its multitude of control points, I still have to launch a few relay sats early on to make sure I can complete a fully controlled launch (as I don't use automation).

I'm wondering if "soft" occlusion will be optional though.

Even for players putting in a few thousand hours, I think just right clicking on a building and spending some money is equally tedious, cause gameplay wise, all you've done is click the mouse twice. I think it's more fun to gain more functionally out of our creations we send into space and beyond.

[rkman]

I'd rather built and attach a giant relay system on my Kerbin Orbital Space Station so that the station has more of a use then as a gas station and bus stop.

Not that it matters very much but it would be unrealistic in that you'd need very large (heavy) dishes, which you'd normally really not want to have to put in space.

[Guest]

Even for players putting in a few thousand hours, I think just right clicking on a building and spending some money is equally tedious, cause gameplay wise, all you've done is click the mouse twice. I think it's more fun to gain more functionally out of our creations we send into space and beyond.

Not if it's some mandatory BS that I have to do on every new save. For one, there's always Remote Tech, for two a simplified DSN analogue is much better for gameplay.

[GarrisonChisholm]

Simply put, Remote Tech is not realistic. It adds a complex gameplay, but complex =/= realism

Here-here.

[Prasiatko]

Is there really any point to probes as it stands. There are far fewer problems to overcome simply sending a manned vessel. You get more science opportunities and with this update you won't have to worry about relays.

[tater]

Rosetta had to pick a place to land on an asteroid with unknown parameters. This was not programmed previous to launch. We are not in the 20th century any more.

Rosetta is ONE example (comet, BTW). How much control did they exercise after Philae was released to guide it down? Right, none at all. They picked a location, and sent a command for the spacecraft to initiate "landing" (that implies a level of control it lacked) with that as the target area, nothing more. Current probes are becoming more, not less autonomous. Rovers that can avoid obstacles, for example. This trend will only continue. New Horizons is another example, while "remote controlled," the spacecraft is programmed well in advance because of the time lag involved. Direct control is impossible once any lag equals an inability to function safely. Any "remote control" not done in real time is "programming."

You seem to be arguing the past, not me.

[Guest]

Is there really any point to probes as it stands.

Far less mass and less risk if there is a problem (if you play with permadeath, that is). Also roleplaying (lol).

[tater]

I think a good penalty for not being in contact with Kerbin on a kerballed ship is that you lose telemetry data, like patched conics and manuever nodes because all that data would be provided by ground control (ie. the tracking station), which you no longer have access to.

I'd say if not in communication you cannot make a new node. I think that ideally craft could execute nodes themselves, frankly. I'd then limit the future position of that node based upon communications lag (Kerbin to probe). So a probe is 5 light minutes from Kerbin, then the nearest you could place a node would be to occur in 5 minutes.

Delay is pretty meaningless in stock because the distances are tiny (Eeloo is what, 0.75 AU maximum?) though.

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Far less mass and less risk if there is a problem (if you play with permadeath, that is). Also roleplaying (lol).

Yeah, I use probes since I use life support, and distant missions are more complicated when I require that my guys have a place to travel in that I'd expect would be comfortable for a few years.

[GarrisonChisholm]

I think that ideally craft could execute nodes themselves, frankly.

This is a fantastic idea- if you've plotted the maneuver and elected to have it "remain" in the craft's "system memory", the craft Should execute it automatically (w/ manual over-ride possible).

[keeper]

Oh Yes, that would be very convenient in some cases but might require a computer or something to do the works without the kerbal/human controlled probecore, and maybe a level of.... uncertainty (just like modern computers & MechJeb) lol

But I have long looked at Remote Tech and never even bothered. I once setup a 3 part 700km orbital relay for the Interstellar beam power rays thing, but lost interest once I'd done it once. (Actually it was less rewarding than predicted) and remote tech seemed a bit too technical for me, for some reason put off.

Now I am looking forward to the update, happy theres no time delay if i'm controlling the ship in realtime, it really needs to be realtime.

I'll end up probably setting up a load of relay things around everything anyway.

It would be nice if I had e.g. 5 antennas on my craft, then they were all used at the same time to send science home faster instead of just one.

[moogoob]

I for one look forward to all the new antennae. Not for building relay networks (I'll have that set to "easy", I'm sure) but because they all look incredible, and I love making probes.

[juanml82]

I think a good penalty for not being in contact with Kerbin on a kerballed ship is that you lose telemetry data, like patched conics and manuever nodes because all that data would be provided by ground control (ie. the tracking station), which you no longer have access to.

Why? The spaceship can locate itself using the stars, like sailors did back in ancient times and ICBMs would do today if Nuclear Armaggedon started, and its onboard computer should be able to calculate the orbital parameters.

[NJP]

This is a fantastic idea- if you've plotted the maneuver and elected to have it "remain" in the craft's "system memory", the craft Should execute it automatically (w/ manual over-ride possible).

If I'm not mistaken Remotetech does that already