[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]

[davidy12]

Shadow, does real fuels work for SSTU in stock?

[blowfish]

Shadow, does real fuels work for SSTU in stock?

You mean with RF Stockalike? No, no one has created configs for it yet. Those are maintained by RF Stocalike anyway, not by individual mods. I've considered creating them myself but they're a significant amount of work so I'm probably not going to bother until SSTU gets closer to a final release.

[VenomousRequiem]

Shadow, does real fuels work for SSTU in stock?

This mod has no RealFuels support.

[davidy12]

You mean with RF Stockalike? No, no one has created configs for it yet. Those are maintained by RF Stocalike anyway, not by individual mods. I've considered creating them myself but they're a significant amount of work so I'm probably not going to bother until SSTU gets closer to a final release.

I'd like to see that. But I'm sticking with 1.0.4 because for some reason, my game keeps crashing on 1.0.5.

So yeah, see ya in 1.1

[Shadowmage]

This mod has no RealFuels support.

Incorrect. It has built-in real-fuels support. Though you would need to apply the real-fuels patches from one source or another (RO patches).

[davidy12]

How do we do that?

[JoseEduardo]

Incorrect. It has built-in real-fuels support. Though you would need to apply the real-fuels patches from one source or another (RO patches).

I guess she meant like there's no RF stock support

[blowfish]

Incorrect. It has built-in real-fuels support. Though you would need to apply the real-fuels patches from one source or another (RO patches).

Well the code is one side of that. The other side is the configs which don't exist for RF Stockalike.

[Shadowmage]

LoL. Perhaps I should rephrase that then.

The mod has built-in Real-Fuels compatibility. However as I do not use Real-Fuels, I offer no personal 'support' for it.

As it is all patch/config based, there is nothing stopping anyone from making their own patches. The RO patches would be a good place to start - they would require very minimal alterations to work as a 'stock' or stand-alone patch.

Example RF-enabling patch, trimmed from one of the RO patches. Just change the SSTU_ShipCore_A1_TANK to whatever tank you want to use RF on.

@PART[SSTU_ShipCore_A1_TANK]
{
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleFuelTanks
        volume = 98000
        utilizationTweakable = true
        type = Default
        typeAvailable = Default
        typeAvailable = Cryogenic
        typeAvailable = ServiceModule
        typeAvailable = Fuselage
        typeAvailable = Balloon
        typeAvailable = BalloonCryo
        typeAvailable = Structural
    }
    @MODULE[SSTUCustomFuelTank]
    {
        useRF = true
    }
}

If you -really- want RF support for stock SSTU, take some initiative and make up some configs! You really don't need me to do... well, any of it.

[davidy12]

Understood. Still, I'll think I'll wait till 1.1. Or if I can get this bug with 1.0.5 fixed. (Don't ask, putting up a report later today).

[Shadowmage]

So, will be putting out a release here in a few hours. However, it will -not- have the J-2 engine in it, as it is not yet finished. It will have the three versions of RL10, and a basic recompile of the plugin for 1.05.

If I can get the J-2 finished today or tomorrow, I'll issue another release with it. However, as I still have not done the UV layout (unwrap is like 80% done), or even started texturing, it will likely wait until next weeks release (and I'll probably have time to make up some mounts for it as well).

[Shadowmage]

Updated release is available:

https://github.com/shadowmage45/SSTULabs/releases/tag/0.2.18-beta

Minor plugin fixes to engine module and engine clusters. Added the three RL10 engine variants. Full change log is behind the link.

Sorry I didn't have time for general bug-fixing for this update, will see about getting a 'bugfix' release for tomorrow (no promises though).

Plugin has been verified to work on 1.05 (for all the parts that I tested), but I will be doing an update/recompile in the near future. The problem is, as soon as I do, I will lose 1.04 compatibility (new method definitions on some stock classes). So, for now, I'm opting to maintain 1.04 compatibility, but some modules might not mimic their stock counterparts as well as they should (solar panels, ablator module, decouplers).

Stowed nozzles:

Extended nozzles:

And, just for kicks, a non-distorted comparison of the finished engines, for size/etc:

[VenomousRequiem]

Might I suggest a Centaur like 1.875m mount for the RL-10 A-4? One with 1 and 2 engines. That's work super well for what I'm trying to do.

[JoseEduardo]

Might I suggest a Centaur like 1.875m mount for the RL-10 A-4? One with 1 and 2 engines. That's work super well for what I'm trying to do.

+1

also going with the Centaur idea, is in the upper stage plans a model like Centaur G and T?

it's sorta like the ICPS, but enclosed and shiny:

[Shadowmage]

Might I suggest a Centaur like 1.875m mount for the RL-10 A-4? One with 1 and 2 engines. That's work super well for what I'm trying to do.

Pretty sure I just released both 1 and 2 engine clusters for the RL10A-4.

But I'm not sure what a 'centaur-like mount' would be?

If you are referring to the actual tanks and stuff, then no, that will be coming as part of the upper stages. Other than that, I'm at a loss as to what you are requesting. There doesn't seem to be any specific mount on the centaur -- its pretty much two engines stuck on the bottom of a common-bulkhead tank, which is already doable by slapping the 2-engine cluster on the bottom of a 1.875m tank.

[VenomousRequiem]

Pretty sure I just released both 1 and 2 engine clusters for the RL10A-4.

But I'm not sure what a 'centaur-like mount' would be?

If you are referring to the actual tanks and stuff, then no, that will be coming as part of the upper stages. Other than that, I'm at a loss as to what you are requesting. There doesn't seem to be any specific mount on the centaur -- its pretty much two engines stuck on the bottom of a common-bulkhead tank, which is already doable by slapping the 2-engine cluster on the bottom of a 1.875m tank.

I mean like a rounded bottom like Centaur V (The Atlas V second stage) has. But... 1.875m.

[Shadowmage]

I mean like a rounded bottom like Centaur V (The Atlas V second stage) has. But... 1.875m.

http://spaceflightnow.com/atlas/av030/centaur/mro_centaur.jpg

I wouldn't get your hopes up on it. It seems like it would have very limited application outside of that specific use. And I have little interest in single-use parts.

I will be doing a longer / tapered mount, similar to the Saturn-V S-II mount, and I -might- be doing one similar to the S-IVB mount (more appropriate for a single engine). One of those might be more appropriate to your use/intent (when scaled down). But I do not have the time (nor will/want) to make every different little part from every rocket.

[VenomousRequiem]

You know what? I just wanted that because the Atlas V is my favourite rocket, but I will totally settle for Saturn V bits!

[riocrokite]

Agreed about 1.875 specific size part Shadow, working on too many parts might quickly deplete your motivation and energy.

Maybe it could be worth to limit number of parts for now on the account of wrapping up the whole mod. So then you will have a major block of work finished and that could be a nice relief Then nothing is stopping you from adding further parts when you have time and motivation. Or you can just switch to another ideas that you find interesting:) Just an idea since the scope of the mod is huge and I personally wouldn't have the energy and motivation to carry on as long as you do

[Shadowmage]

Here is a concept shot of what some of the next mounts -might- look like. I just took the existing generic mount and bashed the geometry around a bit to get a general idea of the look. Some may have a bit more detail than shown here (stringers, possible plumbing), or slightly different finished geometry (nova mount might change a bit).

From left to right:

Rounded single-engine upper-stage (S-IVB, with some roundness), not sure on this one, just testing the look

Rounded multi-engine upper-stage (S-II with some roundness), not sure on this one, just testing the look

S-IVB style single engine upper-stage

S-II style multi-engine upper-stage

Nova style general-purpose lower-stage mount/fairing (engines mount up inside of it a ways, so mostly just the bells will be sticking out)

[Shadowmage]

+1

also going with the Centaur idea, is in the upper stage plans a model like Centaur G and T?

it's sorta like the ICPS, but enclosed and shiny:

http://historicspacecraft.com/Diagrams/U/Upper_Stages_RK2013_1200x700.jpg

http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_2/United_States_3/Centaur/Centaur%20G-Prime.jpg

Should be doable.

Will be two variants of upper-stages; common-bulkhead, and split tank.

Common bulkhead will pretty much just be a regular tank, with perhaps some added RCS/ullage/solar bits. Still a bit undecided how best to handle these.

Split-tank will have three changeable parts/mesh options; top tank length (diameter is set by the part used), intertank structure/length (can have skeletal, skinned, long/short), and bottom tank length/diameter. Hoping to keep it simple to re-use the existing custom-fuel tank plugin/module, or at least a slightly modified version of it.

You know what? I just wanted that because the Atlas V is my favourite rocket, but I will totally settle for Saturn V bits!

If you wanted to try your hand at modeling the mount yourself, I would be more than glad to give you instructions on how to properly set it up/export it for use by the plugin (or set up the config for however you exported it... whichever works).

The engine cluster plugin is almost more of a tool for others to use; as I just don't have the time needed to take full advantage of all of its features and customization options. I've also tried to make it fairly easy for others to add stuff in (custom models, or existing stuff from mods; both as engines or mounts), as JoseEduardo will likely attest to. Sure, I'll be using some of it in my releases... but likely only a small portion of what it is capable of (I have a tendency to go big when I'm designing systems; often much more feature-filled than is needed for my own current needs).

On that note, I'm thinking of adding a couple more capabilities to the engine cluster module.

The first would be free-scaling of the engine spacing, through a slider control in the editor right-click menu. So you could adjust the spacing of any engine layout if you didn't like the default.

The second would be free-scaling of the engine mount. The mount would use the default scale provided in the config definition, but would then be re-scalable to various diameters through in-editor gui controls. This addition would remove the necessity to have multiple mount-entries for different scales on the same mount, and would generally clean up the config/setup/configurability of the mount system quite a bit. Would also play in well with the upcoming upper stages, and might more eaisly allow me to design some upper-stage specific mounts.

Agreed about 1.875 specific size part Shadow, working on too many parts might quickly deplete your motivation and energy.

Maybe it could be worth to limit number of parts for now on the account of wrapping up the whole mod. So then you will have a major block of work finished and that could be a nice relief Then nothing is stopping you from adding further parts when you have time and motivation. Or you can just switch to another ideas that you find interesting:) Just an idea since the scope of the mod is huge and I personally wouldn't have the energy and motivation to carry on as long as you do

I'm kind of working towards that goal -- having a portion of the mod that is 'finished' and ready for a full-public release. I think as soon as I get the upper stage stuff implemented, the Ship-Core series of parts will likely be at that point. Mostly holding out as I'm pretty sure I'll be breaking things a few more times before it is all done (still learning new things daily), and neither want to inconvenience people with broken saves, nor deal with the support for breaking them.

Current plan is to finish up one or two more engines (the J-2, and a small lifter engine if I can find one... perhaps a Merlin-1 variant), and start working on the geometry and plugin stuff for the upper-stages. After that I intend to open up a public-release thread where I will post the 'stable' releases (likely once a month or so), where I will attempt to not break things between releases. Weekly dev/testing releases will still be posted here and will continue with the current dev cycle and setup. I aim to have things to this state sometime -before- 1.1 is released (eta - Christmas); that way there is something to use/play with while waiting for everyone to update all the broken-ness that 1.1 will bring.

But yes, the eventual scope of the mod will be quite expansive. If you've looked at the 'plans' section in the OP, I've got things detailed out clear up to the 1.x version (feature/part complete). I have plans to do a series of station parts, land-based habitat/base parts, and even a set of rover parts. About the only thing I'm not planning to do is aero/airplane parts; mostly because the symmetry needed for aero-craft works against the part-reduction theme pretty heavily. Though, I might still sneak in some prop-based motors and helicopter rotors at some point (both fueled and electric) (did I ever mention that one of my other hobbies is building and flying RC aircraft, helicopters, and quadcopters.... from scratch).

[_Augustus_]

The RL10A3 clusters have the thrust of only 1 engine.

[Shadowmage]

The RL10A3 clusters have the thrust of only 1 engine.

Noted, and fixed in dev version. You can modify the patch yourself in the mean-time if you would like. Change where it says 'SSTUDeployableEngine' to 'ModuleEngines*' (or ModuleEnginesFX if you want to be specific).

Hmm... I think those mounts look fairly good for 1.875m / RL-10 use. Still just some test geometry, but gives you a general idea of what the finished product will look like.

[_Augustus_]

Noted, and fixed in dev version. You can modify the patch yourself in the mean-time if you would like. Change where it says 'SSTUDeployableEngine' to 'ModuleEngines*' (or ModuleEnginesFX if you want to be specific).

Hmm... I think those mounts look fairly good for 1.875m / RL-10 use. Still just some test geometry, but gives you a general idea of what the finished product will look like.

http://i.imgur.com/2f19R16.png

They look good.

My one thing about your fuel tanks, by the way, is the amount of memory they use compared to the amount of textures available.

[Shadowmage]

My one thing about your fuel tanks, by the way, is the amount of memory they use compared to the amount of textures available.

Hmm?

I think the memory use is actually rather good. 4x 1024x texture (2 diffuse, 2 normal, per texture set) gets you 8 different lengths of tanks, in every possible diameter. 4x 1024x textures / 8 parts = 0.5x 1024x textures per part (for a single diameter, the rest of the sizes are 'free', unless you count them as separate texture sets).

Compared to stock - just the three lengths of 3.75m tanks is a total of 3x 1024x texture (diffuse only, no normal map in use). That is for only a single diameter, and only 3 tank lengths. 3x 1024x / 3 parts = 1x 1024x texture per part.

I would say, even including the normal maps, I am twice as efficient memory wise compared to stock textures (on a textures used per-number-of-parts basis).

I will however in the future be breaking the texture sets off into a separate optional download. Will keep the main download size down, and keep the basic stock-install memory footprint as minimal as possible.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Shadowmage