[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]

[_Augustus_]

[quote name='VenomousRequiem']Hey, Shadow, care to include a 5m version of the F1 x5 mount for those of use who still use that scale?
Update looks nice though![/QUOTE] Technically, the Saturn V lower stages more closely scale to 6.25m, and the S-IVB is 3.75, with the CSM at 2.5.

[Shadowmage]

[quote name='VenomousRequiem']Hey, Shadow, care to include a 5m version of the F1 x5 mount for those of use who still use that scale?
Update looks nice though![/QUOTE]

Thanks :)

As to your request:

A.) I've just finished implementing free-scaling of the mounts, so now you can have them whatever size you want. Have also implemented free-scaling of the distance between engines, for further customization/compatibility with mounts. I had already stated that I would be doing this yesterday prior to even releasing the update. Will likely have it available later today.

B.) They won't fit under 5m anyway. Had you bothered to try making the cluster yourself (very easy, instructions have been given multiple times) you would have already known this. A 4-engine variant -might- work. (Consider the scales though; 10m * 64% = 6.4m, which is why they -barely- fit under 6.25m).

C.) Do people -really- need me to make these simple configs and patches for them? Is it that difficult to figure the config and patch system out? As if that is the case, I might as well be done modding now. I have already stated several times that the engine cluster tool is a tool for others to use, and if you want a cluster/layout that doesn't exist, to make it yourself. I have not the time, patience, nor the want, to make up every single engine cluster/design/layout.

[JoseEduardo]

pics that prove it isn't any hard to make custom mounts, these are RO rockets that should be submitted today (M1, Apollo CSM and 12.2m and 20m decouplers are not included, first two from FASA and last two were rescaled KW ones), not sure if MM 1B and 1C are gonna be approved, but still....

[imgur]nXeHX[/imgur]

configs are exactly the same for stock, you should only need to rescale stuff

and I might make a stock sized C-8 just for the sake of it

btw, thanks Shadowmage for what is, in my opinion, the best KSP mod!

[stratochief66]

[quote name='JoseEduardo']pics that prove it isn't any hard to make custom mounts [/QUOTE]

Haha, oh modest JoseEduardo. :)

You have a pretty well refined skill at modifying SSTU parts at this point, it would probably take me 10x what it takes you to do some of these things at this point.

[Shadowmage]

[SIZE=2][B]Updated release is available:[/B]
[URL="https://github.com/shadowmage45/SSTULabs/releases/tag/0.2.20-beta"]
https://github.com/shadowmage45/SSTULabs/releases/tag/0.2.20-beta[/URL][/SIZE]
[B]
[SIZE=3]WARNING[/SIZE][/B][SIZE=3] - This release will break existing craft (Saved/inflight/whatever) using the existing/old engine clusters.[/SIZE]

Adds free-scaling to the engine mounts (and engine spacing). Adds -[B]tons[/B]- of new mount/engine/layout combinations. All existing engines have 1-5 engine cluster variants, and many have 6-7 engine layout as well. More to come with future updates. First recompile on 1.05 dev environment, but should still work fine on 1.04 (untested, but no code-side changes that would prevent it that I'm aware of). Moved all the engine clusters into the 'SSTU - Engine Clusters' part tab in the editor; you may now find them there. (If they don't show up, restart the game... if they still don't show up, let me know).


A -Huge- thanks goes out to JoseEduardo for helping me get all the stock configs converted. I think we worked for ~10 hours today getting it all worked and moved over to the new system (and he was getting RO configs updated/ready as well).

[RedParadize]

[quote name='Shadowmage']

Adds free-scaling to the engine mounts (and engine spacing). Adds -[B]tons[/B]- of new mount/engine/layout combinations. All existing engines have 1-5 engine cluster variants, and many have 6-7 engine layout as well. More to come with future updates. First recompile on 1.05 dev environment, but should still work fine on 1.04 (untested, but no code-side changes that would prevent it that I'm aware of). Moved all the engine clusters into the 'SSTU - Engine Clusters' part tab in the editor; you may now find them there. (If they don't show up, restart the game... if they still don't show up, let me know).


A -Huge- thanks goes out to JoseEduardo for helping me get all the stock configs converted. I think we worked for ~10 hours today getting it all worked and moved over to the new system (and he was getting RO configs updated/ready as well).[/QUOTE]

Damn, If I would have known I would not have have customize mounts myself! Thanks allot JoseEduardo and Shadowmage. I will try this when I get back home.

stratochief66: Not to minimize JoseEduardo skills, but it is true that editing SSTU is quite simple. I would not say easy, but once you understand how it work its fairly staight foward and quick. Quality stuff realy.

[JoseEduardo]

[quote name='RedParadize']Damn, If I would have known I would not have have customize mounts myself! Thanks allot JoseEduardo and Shadowmage. I will try this when I get back home.

stratochief66: Not to minimize JoseEduardo skills, but it is true that editing SSTU is quite simple. I would not say easy, but once you understand how it work its fairly staight foward and quick. Quality stuff realy.[/QUOTE]

just wondering, which custom mounts did you get?

about the mount stuff, I totally agree, that's why I said it was very easy :P

[Shadowmage]

[quote name='RedParadize']Damn, If I would have known I would not have have customize mounts myself! Thanks allot JoseEduardo and Shadowmage. I will try this when I get back home.

stratochief66: Not to minimize JoseEduardo skills, but it is true that editing SSTU is quite simple. I would not say easy, but once you understand how it work its fairly staight foward and quick. Quality stuff realy.[/QUOTE]

Heh, sorry. Tried to give a bit of warning Friday/Saturday that I would be doing a double-release this weekend. Didn't want to too-blatantly advertise it though, in case I couldn't get it all done (which, almost didn't... certainly would not have released it yesterday without JoseEduardo's help).

Anyhow, the engine clusters -should- be stable now for the forseable future. I cannot currently think of any more features that I could realistically add, at least none that would be save/config/craft breaking like this update was. There are a couple minor things that might get added to help ease the setup of some mount/engine options, but they should be literal additions.

One of the major reasons that I did this change, besides the updating to the free-scaling system, was to 'fix' how the 'current mount' was stored in the craft persistence file. Previously it was stored as an index (number), and would reference that mount option (by number) every time the part was reloaded. This was fine, as long as nothing in the config got changed/reordered/removed -- as soon as the ordering changed, it would change already-existing craft, as the index that they had stored now pointed to a different mount option. Now the 'current mount' option is stored by name. So the only way to break an existing craft is if their -currently selected- mount option was removed from the config definition entirely. It is now safe to add new mounts, or re-order them in the config, without fear of breaking existing craft.

Anyhow.. such is the nature of progress. Occasionally you need to break the old patterns (and break the old code) to get the new features implemented.



And on to the 'new' news. Will be starting on the Custom Upper Stage (can we call it 'CUS'?) this week. Working on expanding on the concept diagrams I posted on Friday. So far I -think- I have the basis for the plugin figured out regarding the layout of the model parts, how they will be moved, manipulated, rescaled, etc in order to create the finished/customizable part.

Both upper stage types will be based on a common plugin/code setup; the only difference is the 'common bulkhead' type of tanks will only use some of the model-bits. The model will be broken up into 9 parts:
ST = Split Tank
CB = Common Bulkhead
1.) Upper Tank top cap (both ST and CB)
2.) Upper Tank Midsection (Resizable) (both ST and CB)
3.) Upper Tank Lower Cap (both ST and CB)
4.) Intertank Bracing (only ST)
5.) Lower Tank top Cap (only ST)
6.) Lower Tank Midsection (Resizable) (only ST)
7.) Lower Tank bottom Cap (only ST)
8.) Mounting Option (different mounts for ST and CB)
9.) RCS ports (can be used for attitude control, ullage, and potentially for retro-rockets as well)

The common-bulkead type of upper-stage will only use parts 1-3, 8, and 9 (top tank parts, mount, and RCS). Models will all share from the same pool as the split-tank type. Multiple texture sets will be available. Common-bulkhead will also have a different selection of mount options compared to split-tank.


Will be working on the initial plugin and prototype models today/tomorrow/this week. Hope to have something for -prototype testing- by this weekend (initial temporary test parts). The faster I can get this concept worked through and developed, the faster I can get back to more engines / command modules / whatever else I've been planning for the past 6-months.

[JoseEduardo]

CUS in portuguese is..... well.... ermmm..... um.... how can I explain this.... eh..... nevermind................

what about Tweakable Upper Stage - TUS? :P

[RedParadize]

[quote name='JoseEduardo']just wondering, which custom mounts did you get?

about the mount stuff, I totally agree, that's why I said it was very easy :P[/QUOTE]

Was something like:

Added 1,875 to generic mount size
J-2 in 2x, 3x, 4x
RS-25= 2x, 3x, 4x (Jupiter style and others) and Fixed the Direct mount.
RL10: Some small variant and tweek that I don't remember.
Created a mount without engine for custom stuff and testing.


Since I plan to only use SSTU engines, I created temporary engine using existing one:
The J-2L: A low altitude variant with average performence and low cost. Created a set mount for it.
The RL10-2N: A monopropelant variant with performence similar to Orion SM. Created a set mount for it.

[quote name='Shadowmage']Heh, sorry. Tried to give a bit of warning Friday/Saturday that I would be doing a double-release this weekend. Didn't want to too-blatantly advertise it though, in case I couldn't get it all done (which, almost didn't... certainly would not have released it yesterday without JoseEduardo's help).
[/QUOTE]

Don't be sorry. Its all good. I am sure I will like JoseEduardo works anyway. Edited November 23, 2015 by RedParadize

[doudou]

Hello , first of all thank you for this very promising mod !
Is it possible to have launchers .craft ?
Thank you

[blowfish]

[quote name='doudou']Hello , first of all thank you for this very promising mod !
Is it possible to have launchers .craft ?
Thank you[/QUOTE]

The download includes some craft files. Not sure how up to date they are.

[Shadowmage]

[quote name='doudou']Hello , first of all thank you for this very promising mod !
Is it possible to have launchers .craft ?
Thank you[/QUOTE]

[quote name='blowfish']The download includes some craft files. Not sure how up to date they are.[/QUOTE]


There is a small selection of 'example' lander craft included. As those parts are/were mostly finalized, there was nothing standing in the way of making them. So, the existing .craft -should- be up to date, as far as I know (if they are not, please let me know and I'll get them fixed for the next update).

For the lifters however; that portion mod is in a pretty heavy state of flux, and it would be counterproductive at this point in time to spend time making up .craft files (as they would need to be remade with every release). I would say that after I get the upper stage stuff completed (and payload fairings...) that it might be possible to start including some various lifter .craft files (and all the historic replicas that people seem interested in).

So, not yet, but in the (possibly/hopefully) near future.

[doudou]

Ok thank you very much for the quick response .
Courrage good for the future!

[davidy12]

[quote name='Shadowmage']There is a small selection of 'example' lander craft included. As those parts are/were mostly finalized, there was nothing standing in the way of making them. So, the existing .craft -should- be up to date, as far as I know (if they are not, please let me know and I'll get them fixed for the next update).

For the lifters however; that portion mod is in a pretty heavy state of flux, and it would be counterproductive at this point in time to spend time making up .craft files (as they would need to be remade with every release). I would say that after I get the upper stage stuff completed (and payload fairings...) that it might be possible to start including some various lifter .craft files (and all the historic replicas that people seem interested in).

So, not yet, but in the (possibly/hopefully) near future.[/QUOTE]

TBH, the parts are really intuitive. I made an SLS quite easily.

[RedParadize]

So, I removed the old version and installed the letest. I do see and like the new option, but I only see the single engine mounts. Did I missed something ?

Edit: My bad... The new tab is a great idea.
Edit2: Thats.... awesome! Edited November 23, 2015 by RedParadize

[Shadowmage]

Let me know if there is some particular mount/engine/whatever combination that I 'missed' from the existing stuff. Don't worry about higher # engine clusters yet, I'm still working on those, hopefully will have a few more with the next update; but if I missed a mount/layout/size combination in any of the existing parts, please chime in... it is easy enough to fix that stuff now with the new layout.

[Autochton]

[quote name='JoseEduardo']CUS in portuguese is..... well.... ermmm..... um.... how can I explain this.... eh..... nevermind................

what about Tweakable Upper Stage - TUS? :P[/QUOTE]

The word 'honor' means 'females' in Swedish.

Turkish delight, in Turkish, is 'lokum' - which means 'latrine' in Danish.

Language collisions happen, even extremely rude ones. Doubt there's much to do there - anything pronouncable is likely a word in some language, and just as likely a rude one. :)

[A1Ch1]

[quote name='Autochton']The word 'honor' means 'females' in Swedish.

Turkish delight, in Turkish, is 'lokum' - which means 'latrine' in Danish.

Language collisions happen, even extremely rude ones. Doubt there's much to do there - anything pronouncable is likely a word in some language, and just as likely a rude one. :)[/QUOTE]

Indeed... NASASpaceflight.com [URL="http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/03/sls-positioning-arrm-europa-missions/"]reported[/URL] that SLS's Dual Use Upper Stage was renamed the Exploration Upper Stage because DUUS apparently sounds like a Japanese profanity, though no Japanese speakers I've mentioned the story to could think of any particularly offensive homophones.

Aaaaand I'm just going to drop these off here... [URL="https://www.dropbox.com/s/y1cd9i2z5wlue6a/1967_M-1_Final_Report.pdf?dl=0"]M-1 Final Report[/URL], [URL="https://www.dropbox.com/s/5vh5tt4gj76etfm/SaturnIBSolid.pdf?dl=0"]Solid-Fuel Saturn 1B[/URL], [URL="https://www.dropbox.com/s/8niswv0c6pewpaf/MODIFIED%20LAUNCH%20VEHICLE%20%28MLV%29%20SATURN%20V.pdf?dl=0"]MLV Saturn 5 Improvement Report[/URL] Edited November 24, 2015 by A1Ch1

[JoseEduardo]

[quote name='Autochton']The word 'honor' means 'females' in Swedish.

Turkish delight, in Turkish, is 'lokum' - which means 'latrine' in Danish.

Language collisions happen, even extremely rude ones. Doubt there's much to do there - anything pronouncable is likely a word in some language, and just as likely a rude one. :)[/QUOTE]

well, depending on the POV that word doesn't mean a bad thing :P

[FONT=Verdana][quote name='A1Ch1']Indeed... NASASpaceflight.com [/FONT][URL="http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/03/sls-positioning-arrm-europa-missions/"]reported[/URL][FONT=Verdana] that SLS's Dual Use Upper Stage was renamed the Exploration Upper Stage because DUUS apparently sounds like a Japanese profanity, though no Japanese speakers I've mentioned the story to could think of any particularly offensive homophones.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana]Aaaaand I'm just going to drop these off here... [/FONT][URL="https://www.dropbox.com/s/y1cd9i2z5wlue6a/1967_M-1_Final_Report.pdf?dl=0"]M-1 Final Report[/URL][FONT=Verdana], [/FONT][URL="https://www.dropbox.com/s/5vh5tt4gj76etfm/SaturnIBSolid.pdf?dl=0"]Solid-Fuel Saturn 1B[/URL][FONT=Verdana], [/FONT][URL="https://www.dropbox.com/s/8niswv0c6pewpaf/MODIFIED%20LAUNCH%20VEHICLE%20%28MLV%29%20SATURN%20V.pdf?dl=0"]MLV Saturn 5 Improvement Report[/URL][FONT=Verdana][/QUOTE]

about the Saturn 1B, do you think we could get away with cloning the two stage SRB for RO? I cloned the RL10A-3 for making a M-1 on RO, doesn't look perfectly like it but does the job and is quite close :P although I'm pretty sure the A-4 would do a better job than the A-3, but I'm not sure about the extending nozzle part...[/FONT] Edited November 24, 2015 by JoseEduardo

[RedParadize]

[quote name='Shadowmage']Let me know if there is some particular mount/engine/whatever combination that I 'missed' from the existing stuff. Don't worry about higher # engine clusters yet, I'm still working on those, hopefully will have a few more with the next update; but if I missed a mount/layout/size combination in any of the existing parts, please chime in... it is easy enough to fix that stuff now with the new layout.[/QUOTE]



Is it possible to offset the high of engines in config? Per engine type? I would like to use the the long cone with engines clipping on the side instand of on the lower plate.
Its a extra, I could still use the flat plate instand. but the cone mount is just too cool. Alternatly, you might want to polish that flat plate instand, it would be nice with some details.

[Shadowmage]

[quote name='JoseEduardo']well, depending on the POV that word doesn't mean a bad thing :P
[FONT=Verdana]
about the Saturn 1B, do you think we could get away with cloning the two stage SRB for RO? I cloned the RL10A-3 for making a M-1 on RO, doesn't look perfectly like it but does the job and is quite close :P although I'm pretty sure the A-4 would do a better job than the A-3, but I'm not sure about the extending nozzle part...[/FONT][/QUOTE]

LoL...

Have settled on MUS for the Upper stages acronym. Technically it stands for 'Modular Upper Stage' to reflect how they are built by the plugin and configured for use. I'm sure its probably a bad-word somewhere... but ohwell, its an acronym for an upper stage here :)


Sure, you could probably clone/rescale the SRB; -should- work, though you might need to update some params in the config for the scaling (don't remember how I did the nosecones, but they would need their position updated I believe).





[quote name='RedParadize']Is it possible to offset the high of engines in config? Per engine type? I would like to use the the long cone with engines clipping on the side instand of on the lower plate.
Its a extra, I could still use the flat plate instand. but the cone mount is just too cool. Alternatly, you might want to polish that flat plate instand, it would be nice with some details.[/QUOTE]

Adjust engine pos = yes, but not with official support.

In each 'SSTUEngineCluster' config, there is a field called 'engineYOffset', that well, offsets the engine on its Y (vertical) axis (might not be in every config, but you can put it there). It effects every mount for that engine cluster though. Alternatively, you can adjust the 'height' setting in the base mount definitions file to effect a single mount (SSTU/Data/Engines/MountConfigs.cfg); a lower 'height' setting will clip the engines for that mount. You will notice though, that this creates problems with rescaled mounts; as a .5m clip on a 5m mount becomes a .25m clip on a 2.5m mount, and then the engine is not as sunk in as you want it.

However - neither of those setups are officially 'supported', so when it all starts going sideways... sorry, you've been warned. The -only- supported setup is engines mounted flush against the bottom of the mount, no part clipping, and everything set up properly for scales/heights/offsets.


Updating geometry - as I've already stated, no. I will -not- update geometry on existing 'finished' models (and that goes quadruple for models that are part of a texture atlas / share the texture between multiple models). Should have said something when I was asking for feedback on the geometry of the parts initially (several weeks ago for those mounts). -If- I were to redo that mount, I would need to redo the Saturn-V, Pyrios, and SLS mounts as well (because they all share a texture, any change to one effects the rest)... quite simply, not happening without a very good reason. The closest I will come to 'updating geometry' is -completely redoing- the part; and I neither have the time nor want to redo perfectly functional parts.

[RedParadize]

Thanks for the answer. I guess I will not do the offset thing. I will just redo a stand alone mount instand. Its for fancy stuff anyway, I will still be eable to use the 'no-mount' option and do what I wanted. One thing, it would be nice to have the possiblity to disable fairing.

About parts polishing, its all good. Edited November 24, 2015 by RedParadize

[Shadowmage]

[quote name='RedParadize']Thanks for the answer. I guess I will not do the offset thing. I will just redo a stand alone mount instand. Its for fancy stuff anyway, I will still be eable to use the 'no-mount' option and do what I wanted. One thing, it would be nice to have the possiblity to disable fairing.

About parts polishing, its all good.[/QUOTE]

[URL]https://github.com/shadowmage45/SSTULabs/issues/69[/URL]

[COLOR="silver"][SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE][/COLOR]

In other news... Due to how fast the work on the upper-stages has progressed, I hav moved up the 'Payload Fairings and Adpaters' set of parts from the 0.4.x release to the 0.3.x release. Aiming to have the mod reasonably usable at the 0.3.x point, and ready for an 'official' public at that point. And the payload adapters/fairings will certainly help that goal.

Upper Stages -- made -very- good progress on the plugin/module for these yesterday. Went from 0% written to having mostly functional parts in the VAB (untextured models at this point). Likely have a few more hours of coding to do, and then I can spend the rest of the week doing the actual models and the additional skeletal style mounts. So.. if all goes well this week, I should have the custom upper stage stuff ready to go for this weekends release.

Have moved from a 'one part per stack size' layout, to a 'one part per type' layout -- so there is a total of two upper-stage parts; one for common-bulkhead, and one for split-tank. They now allow for full adjustment of both the diameter and tank height (currently scaling a part vertically, so you get very fine-grained control over height; -might- move over to a pre-compiled model system though; undecided at this point).



On the note of 'public release' -- basically this just means I will start using this dev-thread more for what it is intended for (constant/rapid dev updates), while using the 'public release' thread for any 'official' releases. So, you guys will likely start seeing more testing releases around here, and I will be more willing to include 'unfinished' stuff in the test-releases for pre-completion feedback purposes.

And, further on the subject of 'public release' -- I would like to put together a good 'promotional' media package -- a collection of high-quality images, possibly a few vids, and some .craft files that could be used for advertisement / promotional purposes on the public release thread. If anyone feels like they would be up to the task of helping to put together some of this material, please let me know; would be much appreciated, and could go a long way towards the future popularity and success of the mod. Currently it looks like it will be about 1-2 weeks before I should be ready for the initial public release (possibly longer if the upper stage/fairing stuff takes longer), so I would like to get started on some of this stuff now (or as soon as possible/the parts exist).

[JoseEduardo]

I could help with the .craft files, for both, RO and stock, but about videos, I don't have a graphic appealing computer to start with :P

btw, got one idea for the future, but should be relativelly simple, a resizeable Instrument Unit, of course, you have the payload for control capabilities, but the IU could provide more controls for the rocket (SAS level) and reaction wheels aswell (could also include RCS, just an idea): [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_V_Instrument_Unit[/url] Edited November 24, 2015 by JoseEduardo