Elcano Challenge: As Long as it Takes

[Hagen von Tronje]

Greetings all,

This thread will document my attempt at a probably ill-advised Elcano Challenge: everything. As many celestial bodies as I can handle until I can't take any more. I will record not only my progress, but my slowly slipping sanity as I drive around the Kerbol system.

Why do something so obviously crazy? Because I'm crazy of course, and also because planetary exploration really appeals to me, both as a pursuit itself and as an impetus for engineering and mission design. It turns out I just love rovers, making them, driving them, pulling crazy stunts in them, and whenever possible, proving that rovers are not just practical, they're a lot of fun.

Most of my rovers are mod craft; some are mostly stock but carry some utility mods (some even unnecessarily, because I overbuild like you wouldn't believe!), while some barely have a stock part in them. Sometimes the route demands mods and sometimes I just want to try out the new toys. But hey, see for yourself what I've put together:

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My vehicle catalog will feature all the vehicles I drive on circumnavigations, and include details on design, intended function, actual performance, and mods used. I don't clip parts (at least not egregiously) and I've done my best to make everything visible, including toolbox contents where applicable.

Current Status: Eve circumnavigation in progress!

Travelogues:

Minmus:

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Final thoughts on Minmus:

Minmus is, surprisingly enough, a very practical place for a rover, much moreso than the Mun. Minmus has a number of excellent landing sites where you can land on perfectly level terrain and be within easy driving distance of one of the named flats (Greater, Great, Lesser), nearby regular Flats, Slopes, Lowlands, and Midlands, giving you access to five biomes if you have a rover capable of hauling science equipment to them. Further, Minmus's gravity is low enough that a single lander with either reasonable fuel reserves or refueling access (whether ISRU or delivery/pickup of fuel) could easily hop between the named flats and then to the Pole/Highland areas, which are found close together and provide relatively easy terrain to drive on. This could allow a single lander access to all nine biomes within a couple hour mission, and a rover is easily the most practical way of approaching this, in my opinion. Would also be that much simpler to leave the rover behind when you go home, as you can save dV on the mass of the rover and all science instruments.

A much smaller rover than mine using only stock parts could easily deliver science instruments, and could even carry a real pod to store science and get crew reports. My fuel was more than I needed for a full circumnavigation, local driving between nearby biomes could be facilitated by very small fuel tanks for downthrusters.

Those are necessary, by the way. My rover has a mass of over 10t when full and it still wanted to fly at the drop of a hat, though it was perfectly fine when going straight most of the time. Smaller rovers would require downthrusters all the more, but I only used 30% max thrust on both my engines and rarely more than half throttle at that, and I found that very adequate.

Minmus is also a fun place to drive. The highlands are really quite high, and most of the terrain is very easy. Flats and Midlands can typically be driven at x4 physics warp, and even when driving carefully, x2 actually proved fine, even while turning, surprisingly enough. And oh yeah, the poles are really weird. Fun to see, just make a safe quicksave beforehand.

Kerbin:

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Final thoughts on Kerbin:

Well, it was a very long journey this time. Minmus did not prepare me for that.

Would I recommend it to a friend? Yeah, maybe. Unlike Minmus, there's almost no practical application to a rover on Kerbin. Kerbin data is much easier to gain with an airplane. But Kerbin is an underappreciated beauty of a planet, with some really impressively steep mountains, broad seas, and bizarre terrain aplenty. It's also got what must be some of the most challenging terrain anywhere; seriously, what's going to be harder than driving right up a vertical wall, out of the water no less?

Or maybe Minmus is just a pushover and I've underestimated the depth of an Elcano challenge. But if there's one thing I do, it's learn from my mistakes. And let's be clear - a blind drive carrying useless equipment around a planet the size of Kerbin is a mistake. I'm glad I proved the strength of my engineering in this rover design, but I also think that experiment has served its purpose. I have decided to use different rovers for different planets in the future, not merely to optimize designs further and test new ideas, but also because I'm frankly tired of driving this one. I've put some 80 hours in on it, let's drive something new.

I will also be employing some scouting in the future. A mission is already underway for Duna, and this time we're taking SCANSat and what I hope will be a Dunatian bushplane for low altitude scouting. We passed right by so many anomalies on Kerbin that I'm embarassed, and I literally landed within throwing distance of the only anomaly on Minmus without realizing it, with my very first installment! How foolish! I won't make that mistake again, either.

I hope you enjoyed this road trip with me, and thanks to everyone for their support! I'm not done yet, not by a long shot. Duna will have a very nice base of operations, and with the changes I've introduced, entries should have both more brevity and better scenery. Stay tuned!

Duna:

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Final thoughts on Duna:

Duna looks nice. Not a lot of variety, but what it does have is sufficiently Martian, especially with enhanced visual effects.

So is a rover good here? Well, it certainly operates well here, the terrain presents zero challenge to a rover anywhere but the poles, really. There are also sites where you can collect five biomes in a few minutes, and a rover is, as always, a very easy way to do that without having to move your lander four times. Adventurers may find themselves longing for an Olympus Mons or really any kind of Martian analogue; there are some mountains with considerable local prominence, but they aren't the highest on the planet - the highest point is in a fairly ordinary looking highlands near a valley that looks impressive on the map but is really just a zone of lowlands in between zones of highlands. The lowlands aren't exactly Planitia, either - not that one flat plain is more boring than another, but my plane certainly wishes there were some flatter areas rather than just gentler dunes.

But I did take something away from this: I'm taking a vacation from polar routes for a while. I like weird terrain, I like rough terrain, what I don't like is minefields of unnatural terrain that makes my skin crawl. Okay, I kinda like it. But I think I'd like a nice, tropical cruise around a pleasant equatorial route, free of any spires of impending death looming over me. I'm thinking somewhere warm, with exotic beaches? What's that? Eve, you say? Eve is huge, hard, and dangerous, like a bull on steroids but with a lot more gravity. I'm also thinking I'm going to take a pleasure craft on this next expedition. I've got Eve science for the most part, I've had a functioning (if stranded) base there for quite some time, and I think the poor "colonists" could use something more fun than being driven into a polar abyss.

See you next time, and as always, thanks for reading!

Eve:

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Edited September 17, 2015 by Hagen von Tronje

[B-STRK]

That you're planning to do every possible celestial body is possibly the greatest challenge the Elcano Challenge has ever encountered from an entry.

Safe journeys! Hope to see you on every category in the leaderboard! (Though probably not Laythe and Kerbin. Unless your rover's somehow amphibious?)

[Hagen von Tronje]

That you're planning to do every possible celestial body is possibly the greatest challenge the Elcano Challenge has ever encountered from an entry.

Safe journeys! Hope to see you on every category in the leaderboard! (Though probably not Laythe and Kerbin. Unless your rover's somehow amphibious?)

It floats, believe it or not. All it requires are pontoons and a prop to make it an airboat, and those are currently in development. I mentioned in my personal rules that I will allow equipping the amphibious kit on worlds with oceans so long as they are part and parcel of the vehicle and not a removable boat (I may allow moving parts, still working out the least ridiculous way to accomplish this), but dragging them around every dry moon would be silly even for a completist.

[Geschosskopf]

An ambitious project and an impressive vehicle and rule set. Good luck.

And if you're already quoting Cthulhu stuff, I can't wait until you get to the Jool system, which seems to be a shrine built in honor of the Old Gods

[Hagen von Tronje]

Updated with part two of the Minmus challenge. If you thought the north pole weirdness was out there, wait until you see what horrors wait at the south pole. Minmus is a much stranger place than I imagined; it looks like a cute snowball but it's got some spooks.

I'll keep update albums in the OP; if anyone is kind enough to read my narratives, the least I can do is keep everything in one place instead of distributed throughout several pages of the thread.

I've also now got a working prototype amphibious kit for the rover! It's in final testing stages, and I hope to make my next Elcano challenge...Kerbin itself! A perfect testbed right in my own backyard and one that many find surprisingly difficult to fully circumnavigate, it should prove entertaining and a good challenge for my rover's real capabilities. I have to confess I haven't explored all of Kerbin's biomes so this will be a nice trip for me too.

Edited August 2, 2015 by Hagen von Tronje

[Hagen von Tronje]

Updated with part 3, completing my circumnavigation of Minmus, with a bonus just for fun.

Also updated with pics of the amphibious design, see spoiler tag in original post.

Thanks to everyone for reading! Kerbin will be next!

[B-STRK]

Congrats on Minmus! And great use of the KAS winch!

[Hagen von Tronje]

First part of Kerbin circumnavigation posted! Per my update notes, this one will take a different tone, slightly less Lovecraft, slightly more Sagan. Though I'm sure we'll still find a place or two that's just too bizarre, such is the nature of the beast.

Hope everyone enjoys! Updates may be slightly less frequent than Minmus, Kerbin is a whole lot bigger, so it takes more driving to see enough things to constitute a worthwhile update, to say nothing of the fact that the terrain can be even more hazardous.

[Hagen von Tronje]

Kerbin circumnavigation part 2 is up. Today's trip takes us through the desert...and then through even more desert. Seriously, have you seen that thing on a map?

Pt 3 will be up probably tomorrow, I have done the driving I just need to do the narrative. Again thanks to all readers, I appreciate all the encouragement! I can also hint that I have some very interesting things on the horizon so stay tuned!

[Geschosskopf]

Nice drive. But beware the NW corner of the desert. The terrain there is quite jagged in places, especially around the ponds.

[Hagen von Tronje]

Updated with Kerbin part 3. This episode covers a lot of distance, essentially completing the western push and hence representing a turning point in the voyage. I am also giving Astronomer's Visual Pack a try, so enhanced images from here on out!

[Geschosskopf]

Wow, quite a long trip in part 3. Keep up the good work. That ability to pack pontoons for use as needed is ingenious. Wish I'd thought of it

[Hagen von Tronje]

Kerbin part four is up! This installment finds us in a land that reminds me of the lonely beauty of South America, where I discover gorgeous and bewildering sights and come face to face with the horrible truth about the extreme south.

As always thanks for reading, and be sure to tune in for part five, it's going to be a doozy!

Wow, quite a long trip in part 3. Keep up the good work. That ability to pack pontoons for use as needed is ingenious. Wish I'd thought of it

Thanks, but every time I take my rover in the water, I think it looks like the raft from Charlie Brown

[jackboy900]

Why don't you have the minmus badge in your sig?

[Hagen von Tronje]

Kerbin part five is up, and as promised, it's pure, unadulterated adventure. Probably my hardest feat in KSP to date.

Why don't you have the minmus badge in your sig?

AFAIK my entry hasn't been accepted yet. Also if I plan to do every celestial body, I'm not sure I'm the kind of guy to stick 15 badges in my signature. It's all good anyway, I very much agree with the idea of the challenge, that it's all about the journey, not the destination.

[FleshJeb]

That ice wall climb was the most epic (and stress-inducing) thing I've ever seen in KSP.

Have you ever read "Stardock" in Swords Against Wizardry? A very similar feel there.

[Hagen von Tronje]

Sorry for the delay in update, I'm sure this was a busy week for many folks. In my defense, KSP is a really fun game, so when I have spare time, it's hard not to play a little more instead of getting the albums up!

Kerbin part six is up, taking us across the antarctic ice flats to the true south pole, and Bill explores the potential of repairs in the field.

That ice wall climb was the most epic (and stress-inducing) thing I've ever seen in KSP.

Have you ever read "Stardock" in Swords Against Wizardry? A very similar feel there.

Thank you! I haven't read the book but it actually looks right up my alley. In fact I want a nice old paperback copy like in the wiki image, I love the smell of a good old cheap paper book.

[Geschosskopf]

Wow, amazing job on the ice wall. Congrats!

Anyway, as to some of the questions and ponderings....

Firespitter pontoons, from way back in their beginnings have had weak, wobbly joints. KRJ really helps there but I find they still need bracing anyway. After much experimentation, I've found that the minimum arrangement is a horizontal X of struts from the front end of one to the back end of the other, plus some ties from the ends to the main body of the vehicle. This isn't really an option for you with retractable pontoons unless you use KAS struts you can install and remove as needed. You might be able to use KIS to remove and reattach the various pontoon pieces to cure their misalignments, however.

As to more efficient wall-climbing, having winches aimed up at an angle and firing grapplying hooks or harpoons seems to work pretty well.

[Hagen von Tronje]

Yeah I've done quite a bit of experimenting with the seaplane skis. I actually think they're an amazing part in general, though I would certainly recommend KJR in general and for...adventurous builds especially. I'm thinking the main source of stress on them in this design is the lateral pushing into the water, the central strut piece is always slightly misaligned when you push in that way, plus I'm riding them at a pretty sharp camber. However they are surprisingly versatile, I've got an extraplanetary seaplane design waiting to be tested off Kerbin and I've got a great design working on a much, much faster amphibious rover that lacks the utility and mountaineering ability of this one but is maybe the most fun thing I've ever driven in cockpit view (using the Mk2 xpac bubble cockpit, just an amazing IVA part, cannot recommend it enough).

I have a concept in mind for a "Spider" rover that is very lightweight and uses harpoons as you describe and deployable landing gear for use when pulling up rough terrain.

I must also admit I am planning some changes in how I do Elcano challenges in the future, partly in how I plan and execute them and also, maybe, just maybe, toying with the idea of tossing the idea that it needs to be one rover that does them all, mostly because I am increasingly convinced that while there very well may be challenges even greater than the ice wall in the future (recent scans of Moho have even Jeb kinda worried about that one...of course I must do a polar route there, but have you SEEN that north pole terrain?), what exactly is harder to drive over than a straight wall?

It also seems like a waste of several hundred hours of quality torture testing for my products to keep putting the same vehicle through the same things. I wanted to become the master of rovers, I'm not sure you get there by doing the same thing ad infinitum.

Plus I think the albums are much more interesting when they're something like the ice wall than "yay more grassland." Which is also why I'm considering some changes to planning phases - I think I can stop pretending kerbals can't fly and use some scouting. ScanSat views of Kerbin have already shown me I pointlessly drove right past two anomalies already that would have been a great thing to pick up on the way. I'd like doing that, and I have to imagine anyone reading likes the highlights and fun moments more than the "and then I drove there" bits. Actually mapping out a world using semi-realistic methods of satellite technology (the angle of view is really a wonderful mechanic to have included!) feels far more reasonable to me than just consulting a wiki, which I have avoided doing (which is why I've missed some interesting sights, sorry guys!).

Naturally long hours driving around give me plenty of time to consider how I'd like to do the next one better, and this is what I've been chewing on. Anyone think differently? For example, I am 95% certain that I will do Duna next, not to get too far ahead of myself. I still have not been there despite going much further afield due to long launch windows but one is coming up soon. I'm thinking I will send the rover of course, maybe the same and maybe a different model, an atmospheric surveyor plane that I HOPE will work on Duna (PS Geschosskopf - I read your stuff and love it but often wait until after I try it myself and either succeed or fail, so I'm holding off on reading that Duna flight tutorial until I find out if what I got works, just to see if I have what it takes to design a plane for an atmosphere sight unseen based only on what I predict from the basic information in the info tab, i.e. thin atmosphere, low g), and of course satellite mapping. I feel like that would make for a much richer exploration experience with the Elcano ground drive at the core of it, the impetus if you will for an entire mission setup with multiple components.

[Hagen von Tronje]

Kerbin part 7 is up, taking us to the pinnacle of one of Kerbin's most beautiful mountains! But what goes up must come down, will my rover be able to handle a sharp descent, or am I driving into a trap?

PS - Any thoughts on the changes I've suggested? Specifically, would you rather see me do everything in one rover or change things up for different planets?

[Hagen von Tronje]

Updated with part 8 of Kerbin.

...and this concludes Kerbin! This one is a bit faster paced, to be perfectly honest there's not much to see on a continent that is almost endless grassland. Still, I actually find one of my roughest moments to date by getting lost in the hills and nearly losing my mind once and for all.

Kerbin is hard, by the way. Anyone who says this challenge is easy hasn't tried it.

I've already got a complete Duna mission en route, so I hope the next installment will be in the near future now that I have a little more time to spend with KSP. Thanks to everyone who follows my challenge, let me know what you think!

[Hagen von Tronje]

Duna is up, and completed! Includes a prelude chapter that is not part of the official Elcano entry, but gives some background on the base construction and mission design.

This was a much more elaborate mission, it took dozens of hours of planning and construction, not to mention launching and transferring, to get the whole thing in place. Ironic that the Elcano turned out to be a breeze and Duna turned out to have a lot less than I thought, but hey, I think I did good, and the base looks pretty sweet to me!

I'm thinking I will do Eve next. I was planning to do Ike immediately, but after driving around Duna on treads, I think I'd like a faster rover for Ike. We'll be back. Eve is the big one, the scariest planet of them all. It needs no introduction, and it needs no help from horrifyingly glitched polar terrain to make it a terror to kerbalkind, so I'll be taking an equatorial route on Eve, just to keep things fresh. I've already got a base there, and the rover is delivered, so I hope to have updates soon!

[xendelaar]

Wow! Amazing reports Hagen! Thanks for your interesting stories I didn't have time to read them all but I sure will soon!

[Claw]

Nice job on Duna!

I'm in the middle of doing Duna right now. I wish I would have read your mission report about it earlier (I'm reading it while I drive. In fact, I just crashed while not paying attention...fortunately it's only four popped tires.) The poles are an absolute nightmare with a rover...

Anyway, I'm not sure how many folks are reading these Elcano mission reports except us Elcano drivers, but I certainly appreciate how much work you're putting in here. Again, nice job and keep up the good work!

Cheers,

~Claw

Edited September 16, 2015 by Claw

[Hagen von Tronje]

Eve circumnavigation is underway, first album posted! This one's going to be special: besides being an equatorial route and a whole new rover design, I'm going it all IVA, Manley Mode, from start to finish! No F2 unfortunately, I need the HUD to show the map and prove location, but future attempts with RPM cockpits may look at a no-HUD run.

I've also given the OP a much needed update, migrating much of the vehicle discussion and expanding upon it with the new vehicle catalog, detailing the rovers I drive.

Also if anyone has any great ideas for circumnavigational stunts, I'm open to suggestions. I can't guarantee I'll do every insane idea but I've got a lot of driving to do still so who knows how low I'll go to keep it entertaining?