I'm smart (or not...)

[Warzouz]

I was planning a Dres mission (never been there).

My usual mission is to send a space station with fuel and one or two landers (usually some 7 tons/terrier/full science) and a return vehicle. I launch 2 mission : one for the station with fuel and one for the landers/return/satellites...

Then, I was experimenting on mining tech. I designed a miner which could reorbit 2 big ore tanks (even from Vall and moho). After refuel itself, it can fill at least 43% of an orange tank. I'm smart.

The new strategy is to bring a smaller fuel tank on the station and be able to refuel it. I'm smart.

Then I noticed the design of the miner would fit nicely as the interstellar tug to push the station to Dres. Perfect, I'm reusing the same engine block. I'm smart.

Then I get that I don't need Oxydiser (the miner is LVN powered), I could get it from Dres when I get there. Same for the monoprop. Even the return vehicle fuel will be used to get there. I'm smart.

So all the fuel I bring along will be used for the travel. I'm smart.

The full station is much lighter than my previous missions (Duna/Eve). I'm smart.

Launch goes perfectly. I get the node set, I do a nice triple burn (low TWR) and get a perfect intercept, after a mid course correction burn. I'm smart.

I'm circularize at Dres periaps, with even dV left (the margin I took). Calculation were nearly 100% exact. I'm smart.

Until... I notice I forgot to account for the fuel to land the miner on Dres and get back with it's load of ore...

Not smart enough though...

Warning : failure inbound !

[eddiew]

Time to find a Dresteroid?

[KerikBalm]

Bring the refinery with you...

They made the refinery so small and light, I don't understand why people insist on bringing only ore up to an orbital refinery.

Basically, Any time you'd need more than 4 tons of fuel for the ascent, it is better to bring a refinery with your down to the surface.

[Xyphos]

Bring the refinery with you...

They made the refinery so small and light, I don't understand why people insist on bringing only ore up to an orbital refinery.

Basically, Any time you'd need more than 4 tons of fuel for the ascent, it is better to bring a refinery with your down to the surface.

it's only light because Squad misplaced the decimal point in the cfg, expect it to get heavier in the next patch.

[Champ]

it's only light because Squad misplaced the decimal point in the cfg, expect it to get heavier in the next patch.

Source ?

[PB666]

it's only light because Squad misplaced the decimal point in the cfg, expect it to get heavier in the next patch.

Why would you do that to us, ignorance is blis. lol. Fortunately cfgs are easy mods.

[Warzouz]

Bring the refinery with you...

They made the refinery so small and light, I don't understand why people insist on bringing only ore up to an orbital refinery.

Basically, Any time you'd need more than 4 tons of fuel for the ascent, it is better to bring a refinery with your down to the surface.

It's not that simple. If I bring the refinery with me, I must refine the fuel. But the lander is not an explorer, it's a refueling ship. It's meant to refuel the science ship for multiple runs.

So I need fuel, RCS and oxidizer. If I refine it, I need dead weight tanks (RCS, oxidizer). The I arrive at the station with probably too much oxidizer and not enough fuel. The balance is quite delicate.

I tried various configuration and the most efficient was only to return ore and refine in space.

This configuration is efficient because the miner has engines that power the whole station to move it. I laugh when I discovered my stupid mistake because the ship was so neat, I missed the obvious.

Eeloo (identical to Dres but with a proper interplanetary stage) and miner assembly

Joolian variation in regular configuration moving from Pol to Bop (and crossing Tylo SOI)

[problemecium]

They missed a decimal point, seriously? It already weighs like 6 tons!

or am i mistaken?

[AndyMt]

They missed a decimal point, seriously? It already weighs like 6 tons!

or am i mistaken?

I was thinking the same. It's no where near being "light"... 4.25 tons I think.

[KerikBalm]

I was thinking the same. It's no where near being "light"... 4.25 tons I think.

So... only a bit more heavy than a Mk 1-2 command pod? for what it does for you? yea... that is light.

Its somewhere in size between a Rockomax X200-16 Fuel Tank and a Rockomax X200-32 Fuel Tank, which mass 9/18 tons....

So its not very dense.

It's not that simple. If I bring the refinery with me, I must refine the fuel.

So, what is the problem with that? You need to refine the fuel anyway

But the lander is not an explorer, it's a refueling ship. It's meant to refuel the science ship for multiple runs.

I don't understand what you mean about it not being an explorer... but if its meant to be a refueler... that is even more of a reason to allow the lander to actually produce fuel...

So I need fuel, RCS and oxidizer. If I refine it, I need dead weight tanks (RCS, oxidizer). The I arrive at the station with probably too much oxidizer and not enough fuel. The balance is quite delicate.

No, you don't. You refine the ore into LF for the nukes, until your fuel tanks are full. Then you fill up your Ore tanks.

What mass of fuel do you need to take with you for the ascent? If it is over 4.25 tons, you are better off taking a refinery, and producing the ascent fuel on the ground.

It really is as simple as that.

I tried various configuration and the most efficient was only to return ore and refine in space.

This is only true if you use less than 4.25 tons of fuel on the ascent. Obviously, as the lander gets bigger, you will quickly exceed that by a lot. To move large quantities of stuff, you want big landers, and the refinery will quickly weigh less than the amount fo fuel you need for the ascent.

[strigon]

So... only a bit more heavy than a Mk 1-2 command pod? for what it does for you? yea... that is light.

Its somewhere in size between a Rockomax X200-16 Fuel Tank and a Rockomax X200-32 Fuel Tank, which mass 9/18 tons....

So its not very dense.

Am I the only one who thinks the Mk 1-2 is ridiculously overweight?

Actually, screw that; that all of the command pods, save for the Mk 1 and 1-man lander are ridiculously overweight, or at least that those two are underweight? There's an awful big discrepancy between the single-man and multi-man pods, that I just can't make sense of.

"Oh, you want a one man lander? That's about 2/3 of a ton.

On the other hand, if you want it to hold 2 people, that'll be 7/3 tonnes."

You what?

[KerikBalm]

No, you are not.

In some other post, when 1.0 came out, I expressed my disappointment that the rebalance did not touch the weights of the command pods/cans.

Its pretty silly that its better to use a stack of 3x mk1 pods, instead of a mk1-2 pod.

-The mk1-2 pod is 66.67% heavier

Likewise, a stack of 2 mk1 lander cans is better than 1x mk2 can

-The mk2 can is 108% heavier

They did a pretty good job with the engines and fuel tanks... but they really need to look at the masses of the manned modules

[moogoob]

Am I the only one who thinks the Mk 1-2 is ridiculously overweight?

Actually, screw that; that all of the command pods, save for the Mk 1 and 1-man lander are ridiculously overweight, or at least that those two are underweight? There's an awful big discrepancy between the single-man and multi-man pods, that I just can't make sense of.

"Oh, you want a one man lander? That's about 2/3 of a ton.

On the other hand, if you want it to hold 2 people, that'll be 7/3 tonnes."

You what?

What about monopropellant, battery, reaction wheels and structural strength, which I think is superior in all aspects? I don't take the 3-man pod because I want to transport three, I take the 3-man pod to transport three without needing extra batteries or monoprop. Part count for the win!

Maybe it's still overweight, but it's certainly not useless.

EDIT: What about the new asteroid-day advanced HECS probe core? Only twice the weight of a regular HECS (0.2T vs 0.1T), 100 times the battery and the most powerful non-dedicated reaction wheels of any command part. I love it as a part and I think it needs severe nerfing.

EDIT 2: Well, did some research. The Mk 1-2 has three times the battery, reaction control and monoprop as it should. Other than the crash tolerance (45 m/s vs 14 m/s for the smaller pod), it's pretty sensical. However, this still leaves it 1.5 or so tons heavier than it really should be. If you put a "hardened shell" tax on it, I think around 3 tons for this part would be fair.

Edited August 10, 2015 by moogoob
research