The Art of landing.

[Wjolcz]

@KerikBalm: It's ugly so doesn't count.

Jokes aside. I'm not sure why I said SSTOs can't carry big loads, saying at the same that it's posssible (Rune's 'Longsword'). I mean, not in real life at least (Do we even have any SSTOs IRL?).

Anyway, I don't treat SSTOs as reliable payload shuttles. Rather using them to transfer crew and small sats to LKO. It's always easier to strap a bunch of boosters to my interplanetary transfer stage than trying to fit it in Mk3 cargo bay, even though it's not cheap.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Veeltch

[martinborgen]

Then that notoriety is undeserved.

I often take 120+ ton payloads to orbit that are longer than 2 orange tank lengths, and wider than 3 orange tank widths.

Link to Rune's mk3 monstrosity?

I have monstrosities of my own, mk3, and not so mk3...

In 1.04:

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/t31.0-8/s720x720/11782393_10103784870615773_5219718175898716167_o.jpg

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/11822430_10103801336797413_628457289837148052_n.jpg?oh=e03d901905c4e6cc6d1015dc9181bea3&oe=563A9279

Previously in 1.02, same design (note how I can enclose the whole payload in a fairing if needed)

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/11377237_10103614966819343_815094391064797949_n.jpg?oh=705cde5f7003c6ca19f18118bf930ed1&oe=56385B4D

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/10441055_10103614966504973_7518848353140663427_n.jpg?oh=bdd60a51d7c5b4c8c08a24bf27bc4bd3&oe=56778104

Not so monstrous.. mk2 based, but still good for payloads too wide for mk3 bays:

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/s720x720/11000540_10103582135358853_5504031967368108229_o.jpg

an earlier version(less powerful), before fairing deployment (these should work better in 1.04 with the fairing mass reduced... not sure how the drag reduction and the reduced thrust affect things... but based on my other SSTOs working just about as well in 1.04 as in 1.02 and getting similar top speeds, I imagine that they still work)

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/10646759_10103582135378813_6584161724900092956_n.jpg?oh=00638618693bafc3f9aa87f2f9889e51&oe=56474BD9

Oh the monstrosity:

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/11110187_10103556943613313_4928631009340909867_n.jpg?oh=8cfe362b5114d5663cad5d34a402a80e&oe=563AF63C

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/s720x720/11182638_10103556942001543_6078544185263135493_o.jpg

1.0 monstrosity:

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/s720x720/11032221_10103550674651363_2148940416804389397_o.jpg

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/10419418_10103550674142383_5163611685085914391_n.jpg?oh=0ba8b5ecbbfa4578ae3286a1e3741346&oe=564754A0

Can we *please* stop pretending that SSTO spaceplanes can't lift large cargos, or that only special people can get them to lift large cargos?

*please*

They should not be notorious for only being able to lift small payloads.

I for one think it looks pretty bad4$$.

Sure... it doesn't look very practical... but it looks very "kerbal"

Lots of thrust, love the RATOs to lift up the nose... very low drag coefficient...

I like it and give it many coolness points.

I share the OPs disdain for high part counts... but its a disdain I accept... my large SSTOs make my game run pretty slow. I also added RATO boosters just to get them off the runway faster (making them no longer a true SSTO, even though they are more than capable of SSTOing... it just saves play time)

Doesn't look so bad to me.

Thanks

Your heavy lifting spaceplane designs are a really interesting concept, that I also intend to explore.

[GoSlash27]

Re. heavy payload spaceplanes:

I made this last night fartin' around with someone else's design:

Heavy- lift spaceplanes can be done, but I don't use them myself. Heavy/ bulky items are a rare payload item; too rare to justify the expense and development time for a spaceplane IMO.

But I do a lot of crew transfers and lifting fuel, so I have spaceplanes for that.

Best,

-Slashy

[A_name]

OP, you inspired me to make my own version of your SSTO. I land it with parachutes

[KerikBalm]

@KerikBalm: It's ugly so doesn't count.

Ugly... how.... how... how are you... its beautiful!!!!!

Ok, the mk2 design I do find a bit ugly... as is the one after that, where I said "oh the monstrosity", but you find this ugly?

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/11377237_10103614966819343_815094391064797949_n.jpg?oh=705cde5f7003c6ca19f18118bf930ed1&oe=56385B4D

and this even bigger one?

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/s720x720/11032221_10103550674651363_2148940416804389397_o.jpg

That is some serious lifting capacity and payload space right there...

Heavy/ bulky items are a rare payload item; too rare to justify the expense and development time for a spaceplane IMO.

You never send up anything much larger than an orange tank, except a spaceplane that lifts the orange tank?

In my career:

* Mun/Minmus ISRU: lifted by spaceplane (In theory, could be designed to fit in a mk3 bay, but due to radially attached 1.25m tanks on my design, it won't)

* Mun lander: lifted by spaceplane (earlier lander was rocket launched, and then sent to minmus, so replacement lander was spaceplane launched - again, you could design a lander that fits in a mk3, or even a mk2 bay, but my design with a full compliment of science gear, and radially attached tanks and a wide landing base, woul not)

* LKO/Duna Research lab/fuel depot: lifted by spaceplane - sure, I could make this fit in a mk3 bay, but I'd rather have more design freedom

* Massive interplanetary ship that could "rotate to produce artifical gravity" for 10 kerbals (additional space for another 7)... lifted by spaceplane

* LV-N tugs with widely spaced LV-Ns and including Sr. docking ports to pull large payloads: lifted by spaceplane

* Duna landers... space plane launch

* Laythe lander: Will be a self launch spaceplane

*** Eve descent and ascent vehicle: spaceplane launched.

* Everything since unlocking turboramjets: spaceplane launched....

If you can manage an entire program where nothing leaves LKO that wouldn't fit inside of a Mk3 bay, then bravo... but I think that would require lots of launches.

As it is now, sometimes I launch 3 craft in one mission, like a lander, LV-N tug, and fuel depot+ lab, all at once.

I'm guessing you do have lots of heavy'bulky payload items, but you just launch them via vertical launch rockets... fair enough.

I'm running a STS, and making use of my shuttle for pretty much everything, as was intended for the STS in real life.

In KSP, a SSTO happens to be easier to manage than a staged shuttle (though I sometimes do RATO assists, and thus stage while still over the runway).

I'm somewhat interesed in using SSTO rockets with heavy payload capacity, but landing them close to KSC will be a pain I think... harder than a spaceplane which can alter its trajectory a lot... I'm also unsure about landing one without breaking things, its pretty easy to land a spaceplane on the runway, or if not, on the flat grass next to the runway, and then taxi on the runway for 100% recovery)

I even developed a set of recoverable SRBs for vertical launch rockets... using the LES and Fleas.. a ~1 second burn gets a rocket going over 100 m/s before main engine ignition and seperation of the SRBs (which then land on parachutes before going out of physics range), but so far the spaceplanes have seemed more practical and economical to me....

Besides... how would you launch this by rocket?

Its so wide that if its on top of a rocket, its likely to make the rocket flip,

It has zero attachment nodes available, the only way I could attach it to something, was using a radial mount structural pylon and lots of struts. Pushing it wouldn't work, it needs to be pulled, and even then you really need struts connecting at multiple points (like the sides).

I really wonder how I would get that to orbit without a spaceplane like mine where it goes in the middle, and has struts going to it from multiple points... without sacrificing performance of the payload (leave a node not capped by a low drag shock/nose cone, or change one of the aerospikes for an inferior engine)

[wrcsubers]

If I may advertise myself...

You can try RoboBrakes, very helpful for landing and creating/using Airbrakes.

[RocketBlam]

At this point, sometimes I just don't feel like going through the difficulty of landing. That's why on all my planes, I include enough chutes to bring them down safely on their wheels.

[Filigan]

...Landing speed was at about 275 m/s...

Wow.. this makes the Lockheed F104 look like childsplay

[Brainlord Mesomorph]

Trouble landing spaceplanes?

[KerikBalm]

That is my laythe landing solution...

[Skystorm]

Thought I would post an image of one of my larger MK4 cargo planes to show that it can haul heavy cargo into orbit. This one just come back from its first mission to take 2 x S3-14400 fuel tanks up to refuel a space station in a 124x124km orbit. It is getting ready to go back up again to do some rescue and recovery missions for contracts out beyond the Mun's orbit.

She weighs in at around 532 tons including the payload of 162 tons. Landing speed is about 150 m/s nearly empty and doesn't have any spoilers or airbrakes as yet. When landing on runway 27 she stops at about the 2nd turn off just next to the space plane hangar.

Has a crew of 4 and can carry 12 passengers.