Come hear about KSP 1.1, straight from Squad!

[Chaos_Klaus]

Honestly, I like the old one much better, the jet-fighter styling fits the KSP style much better than the business-jet version which looks weirdly out of place.

business-jet? A Learjet cockpit looks way less futuristic. Also, there is a concept space plane by airbus that looks quite like a learjet - just more scifiy.

The old MK1 cockpit looks nothing like any fighter cockpit. Not even like a NASA's eary rocket planes. It just looks really old.

[Hotaru]

I disagree, actually. In my mind, the smaller parts were more needed than the larger parts, simply because you can at least lump smaller parts together to create something larger, as impractical as it is. As it currently stands, making tiny planes is effectively impossible without mods, with the smallest jet engine being really heavy and powerful for a 0.625m craft. That said, the addition of larger parts is most definitely welcome.

Fair enough. I'm definitely not complaining about the small parts, I'm actually pretty excited about them. To be honest, we really need both. The only size where we really have anything like a "complete" set of parts is the original 1.25-meter size, all the others could do with expansion. 1.25-meter now has two jets, the Rapier, a bunch of LFO rockets, three solids, and one nuke, the other sizes only have a couple of rocket options each (plus the 0.625-meter ion), no jets, no nukes, no solids, no nothing.

Personally I'm optimistic at this point. It looks like this next update is aiming to fill in a lot of gaps in the stock lineup so we have reason to expect that future updates will continue to do the same.

business-jet? A Learjet cockpit looks way less futuristic. Also, there is a concept space plane by airbus that looks quite like a learjet - just more scifiy.

The old MK1 cockpit looks nothing like any fighter cockpit. Not even like a NASA's eary rocket planes. It just looks really old.

A lot of business jets in general and the Lear in particular have fairly rakish cockpits, the new Mk1 pretty closely resembles the sharp end of a Lear jet. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree the Mk1 cockpit doesn't look good as-is, it definitely needs an overhaul (as I said, just like the overhaul the Mk3 got sometime around 0.25). I just personally prefer the current fighter plane/X-plane style canopy to an airliner-style windscreen.

[GoSlash27]

I like everything that's going on in this album!

I don't begrudge the focus on plane parts because 1) It's PorkJet and 2) atmospheric flight should be an integral part of early career.

I'm taking this new inline cockpit and making a B-58 first chance I get.

Best,

-Slashy

[juanml82]

My thoughts on this:

The Mk1 cabin is cool, and solves the issue of the 2 man 1.25m cockpit: use it along with a probe core, or put it beneath a one-kerbal 1.25 m pod and you have a light, 1.25m 2/3 kerbal capable ship, which is something with quite a lot of uses.

The MK1 cockpit rework... well, I don't use the non-inline cockpits anyway, but I also think it doesn't feel right. That kind of cockpit looks like the cockpit of a far bigger part, rather than the tiny thing only capable of carrying a single kerbal on top of the associated systems for it to work.

The MK3 ramp is a welcome addition, although I still think even Mk3 isn't wide enough to hold stable rovers capable of suborbital hops within a particular moon

I don't really care about the new jet engines. People who enjoy flying at Kerbin could disagree, I guess, but since I don't often fly around in Kerbin, all I see is more parts cluttering the part list and chewing up RAM. A 2.5m air breather engine capable of being used in a spaceplane (or, better, a 2.5m rapier, which could just be designed as a larger cluster of engines, since the rapier is already a cluster of four small engines) should be a good addition. But a 2.5m version of the basic jet is only useful for people who like to fly in Kerbin. I don't think it would be useful at Laythe either, since Laythe has little land to land in and you need to lift them all the way there.

I think Squad should focus more in improving the existing content (ie, stability, performance, graphics, information, gui, etc) rather than adding more parts to what still looks like beta software.

And even if they want to add more parts, I think the effort should be put into parts that either are missing (say, 3.5m reaction wheels and probe cores), can reduce part count when it's needed (a 2.5 m SRB to replace clustered Kickbacks) or increase gameplay/roleplay (habitation modules which look good in bases or stations, electric engines for Duna and Eve, solar panels to put on wings to power those)

[selfish_meme]

I like everything that's going on in this album!

I don't begrudge the focus on plane parts because 1) It's PorkJet and 2) atmospheric flight should be an integral part of early career.

I'm taking this new inline cockpit and making a B-58 first chance I get.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/dk-production/images/62035/large/b58_08.jpg

Best,

-Slashy

And the small jets?

[peachoftree]

My thoughts on this:

The Mk1 cabin is cool, and solves the issue of the 2 man 1.25m cockpit: use it along with a probe core, or put it beneath a one-kerbal 1.25 m pod and you have a light, 1.25m 2/3 kerbal capable ship, which is something with quite a lot of uses.

The MK1 cockpit rework... well, I don't use the non-inline cockpits anyway, but I also think it doesn't feel right. That kind of cockpit looks like the cockpit of a far bigger part, rather than the tiny thing only capable of carrying a single kerbal on top of the associated systems for it to work.

The MK3 ramp is a welcome addition, although I still think even Mk3 isn't wide enough to hold stable rovers capable of suborbital hops within a particular moon

I don't really care about the new jet engines. People who enjoy flying at Kerbin could disagree, I guess, but since I don't often fly around in Kerbin, all I see is more parts cluttering the part list and chewing up RAM. A 2.5m air breather engine capable of being used in a spaceplane (or, better, a 2.5m rapier, which could just be designed as a larger cluster of engines, since the rapier is already a cluster of four small engines) should be a good addition. But a 2.5m version of the basic jet is only useful for people who like to fly in Kerbin. I don't think it would be useful at Laythe either, since Laythe has little land to land in and you need to lift them all the way there.

I think Squad should focus more in improving the existing content (ie, stability, performance, graphics, information, gui, etc) rather than adding more parts to what still looks like beta software.

And even if they want to add more parts, I think the effort should be put into parts that either are missing (say, 3.5m reaction wheels and probe cores), can reduce part count when it's needed (a 2.5 m SRB to replace clustered Kickbacks) or increase gameplay/roleplay (habitation modules which look good in bases or stations, electric engines for Duna and Eve, solar panels to put on wings to power those)

The "squad needs to focus more on performance / stability and not parts" complaint is now, in my mind, null and void. The person making these parts is prokjet, who AFAIK does not know how to program in unity. He also specializes in space plane parts, which is why we are getting more of those parts. While porkjet is doing his thing the rest of the team (Harv, Ted, etc.) are working on Unity 5, a huge boost in performance and stability.

[tater]

Porkjet might specialize in plane parts, but his hab mod is also nice, and how hard is it to make a decent texture for an existing cylinder?

[selfish_meme]

The "squad needs to focus more on performance / stability and not parts" complaint is now, in my mind, null and void. The person making these parts is prokjet, who AFAIK does not know how to program in unity. He also specializes in space plane parts, which is why we are getting more of those parts. While porkjet is doing his thing the rest of the team (Harv, Ted, etc.) are working on Unity 5, a huge boost in performance and stability.

Thats a lot of speculation, U5 will bring performance improvements, and adding new parts is not that much of an issue, it's only when they change physics. Like a new wing, would only add a tiny memory footprint but would not have any effect on the physics, where adding aerodynamics has a huge effect. I like that they have brought Nathan onboard to help quash old bugs, he has a lot of experience making RSS and can help with a lot of those things, getting Claw integrating his Stock Bug Fixes would be even better.

[GoSlash27]

And the small jets?

selfish_meme,

I'm not sure yet. They should be really good for early career exploring, roof hoppers, and marker drones. I'll see how they pan out when I have them. I'd really prefer to have props, but if I can't have those, these should work out better than the current basic jet.

Best,

-Slashy

[Edax]

selfish_meme,

I'm not sure yet. They should be really good for early career exploring, roof hoppers, and marker drones. I'll see how they pan out when I have them. I'd really prefer to have props, but if I can't have those, these should work out better than the current basic jet.

Best,

-Slashy

An electric prop would be great. Simple, can be used in any atmosphere, and if you have enough lift and electric charge; grant unlimited propulsion. I can see more opportunities for that then a size 2 subsonic jet engine.

[passinglurker]

An electric prop would be great. Simple, can be used in any atmosphere, and if you have enough lift and electric charge; grant unlimited propulsion. I can see more opportunities for that then a size 2 subsonic jet engine.

why not just let jets work in any atmosphere? yeah yeah I know "realism!" "duna is totally mars, and the real mars doesn't have intake air!", but I mean without the thematics and real world analogies just purely from a game play perspective what is wrong with jets on all worlds? what would this break? it would certainly mean we get more use out of all these new plane parts we've been getting, and we can finally put the "electric prop!" threads mostly to rest.

Edited August 23, 2015 by passinglurker

[Deathsoul097]

I like everything that's going on in this album!

I don't begrudge the focus on plane parts because 1) It's PorkJet and 2) atmospheric flight should be an integral part of early career.

I'm taking this new inline cockpit and making a B-58 first chance I get.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/dk-production/images/62035/large/b58_08.jpg

Best,

-Slashy

Holy mother of Droptanks!

[Edax]

why not just let jets work in any atmosphere? yeah yeah I know "realism!" "duna is totally mars, and the real mars doesn't have intake air!", but I mean without the thematics and real world analogies just purely from a game play perspective what is wrong with jets on all worlds? what would this break? it would certainly mean we get more use out of all these new plane parts we've been getting, and we can finally put the "electric prop!" threads mostly to rest.

Even though I don't like hardcore realism, even I think oxygen combustion should require...oxygen. There are ways around that, there was this fascinating documentary about Nuclear Turbofan engines would could theoretically keep a plane in the air for months at a time, which was developed in the 70's. It doesn't require oxygen since all it does is heat air to produce thrust, which would work well on Eve and Jool since they have plenty of air (Duna would be tenuous). Their downside was that they were heavy (requiring an entire reactor to be housed in the fuselage, didn't produce a lot of thrust, and the direct cycle engine spewed radioactive gas and the indirect cycle was complicated to make. I've seen Porkjet design this engine, and I'm sorely tempted to try it out, but I'm worried downloading too many mods will make the game unplayable on every patch day, so I'm trying to stay away from parts mods.

[BlueCanary]

An electric prop would be great. Simple, can be used in any atmosphere, and if you have enough lift and electric charge; grant unlimited propulsion. I can see more opportunities for that then a size 2 subsonic jet engine.

It'd also be really good as boat propulsion

[passinglurker]

Even though I don't like hardcore realism, even I think oxygen combustion should require...oxygen. There are ways around that, there was this fascinating documentary about Nuclear Turbofan engines would could theoretically keep a plane in the air for months at a time, which was developed in the 70's. It doesn't require oxygen since all it does is heat air to produce thrust, which would work well on Eve and Jool since they have plenty of air (Duna would be tenuous). Their downside was that they were heavy (requiring an entire reactor to be housed in the fuselage, didn't produce a lot of thrust, and the direct cycle engine spewed radioactive gas and the indirect cycle was complicated to make. I've seen Porkjet design this engine, and I'm sorely tempted to try it out, but I'm worried downloading too many mods will make the game unplayable on every patch day, so I'm trying to stay away from parts mods.

And who is to say duna eve and jool don't have oxygen this isn't a perfect model of our system after all. The way I see it for all the ram they take jets only work in two places with out dynamic loading this is a frankly unacceptable waste of resources and 64 bit is no panacea as many users run older machines (6 gigs here). Any way back on topic the only thing in the way of this I see is the imaginary assumption that planet's in the kerbin system have analogs in the real solar system and that they must mimic them. If you think jets shouldn't work on duna you could just not take jets there

[klgraham1013]

older machines (6 gigs here)

6 gigs is perfectly acceptable. The ram creep has really been getting out of hand lately.

Also, I don't think any developer should have to maintain compatibility with 32bit systems. When was the last time anyone could actually buy a 32bit processor? Over a decade ago?

[passinglurker]

6 gigs is perfectly acceptable. The ram creep has really been getting out of hand lately.

Also, I don't think any developer should have to maintain compatibility with 32bit systems. When was the last time anyone could actually buy a 32bit processor? Over a decade ago?

Remember that has to be shared with the os and any other programs running I don't want to shut everything down just to play kerbal

[Red Iron Crown]

And who is to say duna eve and jool don't have oxygen this isn't a perfect model of our system after all. The way I see it for all the ram they take jets only work in two places with out dynamic loading this is a frankly unacceptable waste of resources and 64 bit is no panacea as many users run older machines (6 gigs here). Any way back on topic the only thing in the way of this I see is the imaginary assumption that planet's in the kerbin system have analogs in the real solar system and that they must mimic them. If you think jets shouldn't work on duna you could just not take jets there

The important thing is that the devs seem to feel that jets shouldn't work on Duna, which trumps whatever a player might feel. Honestly I doubt they would work well there even if the atmo was oxygenated, it is very, very thin.

[passinglurker]

The important thing is that the devs seem to feel that jets shouldn't work on Duna, which trumps whatever a player might feel. Honestly I doubt they would work well there even if the atmo was oxygenated, it is very, very thin.

Then props wouldn't really work there either they hate thin atmospheres even more than jets do.

How about this they tie off world performance of jets to a building level like the research lab or the SPH representing a change in jet technology that permits their use any where.

[juanml82]

Then props wouldn't really work there either they hate thin atmospheres even more than jets do.

How about this they tie off world performance of jets to a building level like the research lab or the SPH representing a change in jet technology that permits their use any where.

That's a good point about propellers in thin atmospheres. In that case, they'd only work in Jool or Eve. In both cases, the ships would be stuck in those planets, powering them in Jool is still an issue and the ships using them would still be slow because of the air resistance.

[tater]

Using jets anywhere? You can certainly "borrow" atmosphere as propellant, but you'd still need oxidizer. If adding "jets anywhere," they should also add "liftwood" or ether propellers.

[passinglurker]

That's a good point about propellers in thin atmospheres. In that case, they'd only work in Jool or Eve. In both cases, the ships would be stuck in those planets, powering them in Jool is still an issue and the ships using them would still be slow because of the air resistance.

Jets would be powered by fuel of course. These silly electric prop ideas mean while would likely use fuel cells (more fuel!) At least that's what most of the prop mod users find they need to do. As for speed issues you either fly high to the elevation that equals kerbin pressure or you recognize it's still faster than roving

[tater]

If you want an "anywhere" (sort of) jet, perhaps a nuclear ramjet. The one the US tested was ~170 kN thrust.

[passinglurker]

Using jets anywhere? You can certainly "borrow" atmosphere as propellant, but you'd still need oxidizer. If adding "jets anywhere," they should also add "liftwood" or ether propellers.

Again you are all still hiding behind real world analogies about the composition of other world's atmospheres. I originally asked how this would break game balance not your suspension of disbelief

[tater]

Again you are all still hiding behind real world analogies about the composition of other world's atmospheres. I originally asked how this would break game balance not your suspension of disbelief

I'm "hiding" behind basic physics and chemistry, have you heard of those?

Again, by your analogy antigravity wood should be fine, or propellers that use the "ether" of space. Why not those?