anshortage of Atmospheric bodies

[Rocket Farmer]

Let me start off by saying awesome game and way to go on the updates. 1.1 looks great with the increases to jets and optimizations.

However going forward we can only currently use all those great jet parts on 2 of 14 visitable bodies (Laythe and Kerbin) and while both are a lot of fun Laythe is mostly water.

So after the optimization to 64 I'm thinking 1.2 is a perfect time for gas planet 2 which I thought no should include 2 atmospheric bodies.

For me for planets I would love to see.

1. A nice giant Jupiter analog with a swirled surface and a moving giant storm

2. A slightly bigger than Gilly sized planet grazer. Basically a planet that is super close to GP2 with an orbit just above the atmosphere of GP2 and a orbit under 1 day. Make it tidally locked.

3. A jet breathing atmosphere planet with an extremely elliptical orbit coming quite close in to GP2 at its perapsis but have a very far apoasis. Basically this planet will be the elevator of the GP2 orbit allowing somebody to jump on close to GP2 and then get off much farther out to catch another moon with little DV cost.

4. An additional jet breathing planet Val sized mid way out. This being an extremely rough planet with mountains / ridges extending above the atmosphere in spots so that landings can be done in vacuum or a skilled pilot can risk airbraking with the constant threat of lithobraking if you plot the wrong course. Also flying a jet around this world would be very interesting as a skilled jet could leap out of the atmosphere to "hopefully" clear some of the mountains ridges).

5. A rock garden of 6-8 Gilly sized planets in close orbit (couple of km apart) but somewhat different representing a planet that recently broke up. Threading a encounter through there would be a true test to get to the middle.

6. One planet a fair ways out that is orbiting backwards that is elongated around its equator such that it's rotation is only slightly less than orbit speed at the equator making it much easier to land at the poles instead of the equator.

7. Leave Eeloo by itself.

My humble dream moon combination.

[cantab]

Well KSP currently has four terrestrial worlds with atmospheres that can support flight (Eve, Kerbin, Duna, and Laythe). Our own solar system also has four such worlds (Venus, Earth, Mars, and Titan). So I think KSP isn't going too badly.

What's missing is good propulsion for those without oxygen in their atmospheres. 1.0 sent ion gliders extinct and penalised rocket planes too. Many players, myself included, want to see an electric propeller to fill the gap. For the time being there's the KAX mod.

[theend3r]

Yeah, new planets are long overdue and now with the switch to 64 bit (to be unable to use it you have to have Windows XP 32 bit which should be rare/nonexistent) we should be easily able to afford them.

Some interesting planets would really renew my interest in KSP.

[Falcon Coupe]

Incase you're not aware, there are mods that add planets and moons using Kopernicus.

There's about 5 or so that I'm aware of, most add a gas planet and some moons. One, Asclepius, adds a planet with a thin oxygen atmosphere between Kerbin and Duna.

Maybe try searching the different planet packs and see if you like any of them.

[ComradeWolfe]

Remember, the stock game still needs to run as 32-bit because it was sold as running on 32 bit machines. Maybe U5 will improve memory usage and allow for a new world or two, but the reintroduction of 64 bit doesn't absolve Squad of having to remain compatible with advertised system requirements.

[NuclearNut]

I think they should add a nuclear ramjet or turbojet to solve the exoatmospheric flight problem. It would be simple, easy to implement, and provide the player with something more to lug around to other planets.

[Grumman]

One, Asclepius, adds a planet with a thin oxygen atmosphere between Kerbin and Duna.

[cantab]

Remember, the stock game still needs to run as 32-bit because it was sold as running on 32 bit machines. Maybe U5 will improve memory usage and allow for a new world or two, but the reintroduction of 64 bit doesn't absolve Squad of having to remain compatible with advertised system requirements.

That's true, but Squad could take recourse in offering reduced texture resolutions, or take advantage of dynamic loading.

[theend3r]

That's true, but Squad could ... take advantage of dynamic loading.

Definitely. Since a modder was capable of doing it just fine, why can't Squad? Why have SLS parts loaded in memory when I'm flying a plane? Or planet textures loaded when in VAB?

I've been shaking my head at this for at least 2 years.

[Falcon Coupe]

I think they should add a nuclear ramjet or turbojet to solve the exoatmospheric flight problem. It would be simple, easy to implement, and provide the player with something more to lug around to other planets.

Porkjets Atomic Age mod adds exactly that, along with some other very nice nuclear engines.

It's even better than that: it's a planet that is both airless and with an oxygen atmosphere, thanks to the air-filled canyons. That's the kind of unique feature with unique gameplay consequences that would make it an interesting addition to stock.

SO I've heard, I have it installed (along with Outer Planets) but haven't had the chance to go to either of them.

For those worried about RAM usage, I only have 4GB and run quite a lot of parts mods and it runs fine for me. If you added all the planet packs you could find, that might be a different story!

A list of all the planet packs made with Kopernicus can be found here.

[Wjolcz]

Well KSP currently has four terrestrial worlds with atmospheres that can support flight (Eve, Kerbin, Duna, and Laythe). Our own solar system also has four such worlds (Venus, Earth, Mars, and Titan). So I think KSP isn't going too badly.

What's missing is good propulsion for those without oxygen in their atmospheres. 1.0 sent ion gliders extinct and penalised rocket planes too. Many players, myself included, want to see an electric propeller to fill the gap. For the time being there's the KAX mod.

Exactly.

[passinglurker]

Why not just let our current jets work anywhere?

[Starwhip]

Why not just let our current jets work anywhere?

Because that's highly unrealistic. Jets still need oxidizer in the form oxygen in the atmosphere to function.

[passinglurker]

Because that's highly unrealistic. Jets still need oxidizer in the form oxygen in the atmosphere to function.

[tater]

Why does realism matter? this is a game isn't it? It's already established that kerbin is not a perfect copy of our solar system who's to say these world's don't have intake air? After all presently we can only use them in 2 of the 5 existing atmospheres that doesn't justify the space they take in ram and the number of jet engines and intakes is only growing.

Why not add ether propellers, or liftwood (anti-gravity-wood)?

[Wjolcz]

Why not add ether propellers, or liftwood (anti-gravity-wood)?

That already exists in War Thunder and is called stallinium or stalinwood. I'm afraid SQUAD would get sued after implementing something like this.

[tater]

That already exists in War Thunder and is called stallinium or stalinwood. I'm afraid SQUAD would get sued after implementing something like this.

LOL.

Then War Thunder should be worried, as the first time I saw the word used was in the 1980s (Space 1889, a roleplaying game that is probably the progenitor of "steampunk" even if those people don't know it ever existed).

[FourGreenFields]

Why does realism matter?

No. Just no.

On that topic: I wouldn't have a problem with special oxidizer replacing some of the required intake air. Was like that on the Focke-Wulf Ta 152 H afaIk. Not sure if that could be done in jets though.

I'm pretty sure it's possible to make a piston engine run on a LFO mix though. So wouldn't mind a part like that.

LOL.

Then War Thunder should be worried, as the first time I saw the word used was in the 1980s (Space 1889, a roleplaying game that is probably the progenitor of "steampunk" even if those people don't know it ever existed).

It's simply a term used by the players to descripe some damage model problems of russian planes. I think most of those are solved now, but the game still is fubar (gunners being able to mouse aim and reload mid air, leading to "bomber pilots" hunting fighters, and so on)

Edited August 23, 2015 by FourGreenFields

[passinglurker]

See every time I ask this everyone's knee jerk reaction is "mars has no oxygen! Duna is mars!" And they don't see that I'm asking how game play would change If oxygen in all the atmospheres was a thing.

[tater]

Why not just let our current jets work anywhere?

You did not suggest changing all atmospheres to match earth/kerbin, you suggested making jets work anywhere (because magic).

[passinglurker]

You did not suggest changing all atmospheres to match earth/kerbin, you suggested making jets work anywhere (because magic).

You know full well what I meant by anywhere you are putting words in my mouth here and else where as an act of troll baiting I am done dealing with you

[tater]

You know full well what I meant by anywhere you are putting words in my mouth here and else where as an act of troll baiting I am done dealing with you

I know what you meant by what you said, as does everyone else. If you meant changing atmosphere, you would not have suggested that a VAB/SPH upgrade might allow jets to work anywhere.

[passinglurker]

So ignoring tater for now because he'd rather nit pic issues of linguistics over issues of game balance.

Any way I did some digging and found this. http://sbir.gsfc.nasa.gov/SBIR/abstracts/00/sbir/phase1/SBIR-00-1-03.02-8730.html apparently useing co2 (like what makes up the majority of mars and Venus atmosphere) as an oxidizer is a real concept.

[tater]

So ignoring tater for now because he'd rather nit pic issues of linguistics over issues of game balance.

One, I was never nitpicking linguistics. You said a building upgrade could make jets work anywhere (with an atmosphere, obviously). This is not an issue of word choice.

I think that making craft that are already grossly overpowered (spaceplanes) magically work in every atmosphere equally well is a terrible game balance decision.

Any way I did some digging and found this. http://sbir.gsfc.nasa.gov/SBIR/abstracts/00/sbir/phase1/SBIR-00-1-03.02-8730.html apparently useing co2 (like what makes up the majority of mars and Venus atmosphere) as an oxidizer is a real concept.

Now THIS is an excellent post.

So for the game, this would be a new part that would work only on Duna and Eve. Very cool. I'm fine with that. If similar tech is plausible for a Laythe jet, that's fine, too.

[passinglurker]

One, I was never nitpicking linguistics. You said a building upgrade could make jets work anywhere (with an atmosphere, obviously). This is not an issue of word choice.

I think that making craft that are already grossly overpowered (spaceplanes) magically work in every atmosphere equally well is a terrible game balance decision.

Now THIS is an excellent post.

So for the game, this would be a new part that would work only on Duna and Eve. Very cool. I'm fine with that. If similar tech is plausible for a Laythe jet, that's fine, too.

There you go making me feel bad for reporting your earlier antics oh well I'm sure the mods will see the whole matter as petty and dismiss it.

Now on to the real discussion. I suggested a building upgrade because it was the only mechanism in stock that implements blanket changes too a set of parts. Making a whole new set of situational co2 intakes and engines would just double the issues I have with the current jet parts you see. There had to be a way to upgrade the existing ones assuming jets on duna wasn't acceptable from the get go.

As for your point about balance of space planes I would counter that they wouldn't work equally well because of the different densities a jet on duna would surely struggle and present a design challenge as would any propeller proposal because the atmosphere is so thin while on eve the greater density could kill your isp at sea level. Jool can stay the ship eating beast that it is there is no where to go any way