Recover parts not money

[clivman]

KSP's recovery system is extremely unrealistic, what I suggest is that you could recover parts into a stockpile, which could then be used for future missions. The same logic could apply to fuel onboard.

[nothingSpecial]

Wouldn't that be another kind of unrealistic? Most of spacecapsules are one use only.

[clivman]

Then make it only for certain parts, and some capsules are reusable in RL

[nothingSpecial]

I suppose for some parts this can work.

Spaceplanes managed this way must be particularly sensible.

[CaptainTurbomuffin]

Why? You want KSP to be APM-based? It would make construction MUCH harder, as you would have to use your existing parts. Or if you could sell them? That's what the current system does, witouth unnecessary micromanagement. Of course, spaceplanes. That's a valid argument.

Edited August 30, 2015 by CaptainTurbomuffin

[Joonatan1998]

Support.

I think recovering entire crafts would be better than recovering parts, but even recovering parts is better than getting full price back from 20-year-old engine.

[clivman]

Why? You want KSP to be APM-based? It would make construction MUCH harder, as you would have to use your existing parts. Or if you could sell them? That's what the current system does, witouth unnecessary micromanagement.

You wouldn't have to use existing parts, you could pay for new ones. It would just remove recovery funds from the game, which makes it unbalanced anyways.

[nothingSpecial]

Why? You want KSP to be APM-based? It would make construction MUCH harder, as you would have to use your existing parts. Or if you could sell them? That's what the current system does, witouth unnecessary micromanagement.

If near every part in VAB and SPH a little counter in the corner is visible, and it goes up with every recoverable recovered part, you effectively can just get a lfew parts added to you rocket without raising the cost.

For example, if you recover Mk 1-2 pod, Mk-16XL chute, 2.5m heatshield and Com16 antenna, and every part except shield set in their configs to "recoverable = 1", you have now a little "1" for pod, chute and antenna.

If you start to design your next rocket, the same return configuration will cost exactly the price of new heatshield.

THis is kinda complicated (you need to track quantities of all recovered parts), and impairs current system "closer to KSC - more funds reclaimed", but makes multi-use spacecraft look slightly more sensible.

[passinglurker]

I'd like this mechanic as long as it doesn't get to realistic and overruns the whole game spoiling the fun as what happens with some realism mods (can't explore space gotta micromanage comm net...), but I very much like the idea of scrounging things together from what you have both in parts and complete craft.

perhaps have three options when you recover a craft? first is selling the parts back minus the cost of recovery as usual. second is paying a discounted cost of recovery to keep the parts themselves? third is a paying a more steeply discounted cost of recovery to keep the craft as is?

Recovered parts are kept track of by small counters on the parts catalog tab. Recovered craft can be spawned refueled using rarely used or remembered launchpad or runway menus?

[pandaman]

The way I view part recovery is that the recovery refund is an easy 'gameplay' way of re-using parts. In practical gameplay terms if you get a full refund it makes no difference whether you assume it's the same part or a new one, either way you get to use one without extra cost. If you get a partial refund then the difference can be treated as cost of recovery and refurbishment.

[magico13]

Somehow no one has mentioned Kerbal Construction Time in any of this, which has a very similar mechanic regarding a part inventory. I've toyed around with the idea of recovering parts themselves instead of getting funds, and am still tentatively planning on releasing that into a separate mod (but that's been planned since a year ago, but just hasn't happened). Currently what happens with KCT is you still get the funds, but the parts are also added to the part inventory and make future builds take substantially less time. Another option with KCT is to recover an entire craft directly into storage. When you do that, you have to refuel it manually in the editor, but parachutes and such get reset properly, and otherwise it's the exact same craft. The recover a vessel to storage process doesn't always work properly though (KSP isn't a big fan of transforming a Vessel back into a ShipConstruct, especially when mods add additional PartModules to them).

[passinglurker]

Somehow no one has mentioned Kerbal Construction Time in any of this, which has a very similar mechanic regarding a part inventory. I've toyed around with the idea of recovering parts themselves instead of getting funds, and am still tentatively planning on releasing that into a separate mod (but that's been planned since a year ago, but just hasn't happened). Currently what happens with KCT is you still get the funds, but the parts are also added to the part inventory and make future builds take substantially less time. Another option with KCT is to recover an entire craft directly into storage. When you do that, you have to refuel it manually in the editor, but parachutes and such get reset properly, and otherwise it's the exact same craft. The recover a vessel to storage process doesn't always work properly though (KSP isn't a big fan of transforming a Vessel back into a ShipConstruct, especially when mods add additional PartModules to them).

I looked at it in the past, but it and remote tech are pretty much why I said "I'd like this mechanic as long as it doesn't get to realistic and overruns the whole game spoiling the fun" I want to scrounge and scavenge not take my time meticulously planning a launch schedule to account for craft construction, pad recovery, new part research time, new building construction time. Its all a bit too heavy to put up with for the one mechanic I want I can understand the mechanics existing as an incentive to scavenge but I don't need an incentive I'd do it anyway. I'd rather a separate part and craft inventory mod or stock mechanic that doesn't monopolize my game play with construction timer antics.

[RainDreamer]

Well, I think if they include part failing chance, this can be great. You recover a part, then you get the choice to refurbish and repair it for extra cost (less than buying new one) or you can use it again with a larger chance of failure when in flight.

[passinglurker]

Well, I think if they include part failing chance, this can be great. You recover a part, then you get the choice to refurbish and repair it for extra cost (less than buying new one) or you can use it again with a larger chance of failure when in flight.

the devs have gone over why part failure is more cruelty than game play its not everyones cup of tea (I'm more of a cocoa)

[magico13]

I'd rather a separate part and craft inventory mod or stock mechanic that doesn't monopolize my game play with construction timer antics.

Well, I did say I was planning on splitting the part recovery mechanics out into a separate mod (I've written that mod twice now, but they were both collaborations where the other party has disappeared). I also figured I'd at least mention KCT, since people visiting this thread may find that KCT does meet what they're looking for, even if it doesn't meet what you're looking for.

Also, KCT's one of the most configurable mods available right now, where you can turn off any aspects you don't care for (like pad recovery, or even build times) and can go so far as to completely redefine all of the calculations the mod uses in a config file, rather than needing to recompile the mod.

But yes, KCT's part inventory was designed to provide an additional incentive to building reusable craft, because the stock game's mechanic of returning funds doesn't provide that incentive. Even if you recover parts themselves but can sell them, that's really not much different than what the game does now. The way the game does it now is to provide the most flexibility and simplicity, adding a part inventory just provides an artificial limitation to the game, which you can easily just emulate yourself by using the same parts in new craft.

I was also thinking about creating a gameplay mod where you start out with 3 kerbals and a single ship in orbit, and you can't build new ships with new parts. Instead you'd have to scrounge the solar system for parts, recovering some to create new ships, and reactivating mining bases to fuel your exploration. For this, a part inventory would be an absolute necessity.

[passinglurker]

Well, I did say I was planning on splitting the part recovery mechanics out into a separate mod (I've written that mod twice now, but they were both collaborations where the other party has disappeared). I also figured I'd at least mention KCT, since people visiting this thread may find that KCT does meet what they're looking for, even if it doesn't meet what you're looking for.

Also, KCT's one of the most configurable mods available right now, where you can turn off any aspects you don't care for (like pad recovery, or even build times) and can go so far as to completely redefine all of the calculations the mod uses in a config file, rather than needing to recompile the mod.

But yes, KCT's part inventory was designed to provide an additional incentive to building reusable craft, because the stock game's mechanic of returning funds doesn't provide that incentive. Even if you recover parts themselves but can sell them, that's really not much different than what the game does now. The way the game does it now is to provide the most flexibility and simplicity, adding a part inventory just provides an artificial limitation to the game, which you can easily just emulate yourself by using the same parts in new craft.

I was also thinking about creating a gameplay mod where you start out with 3 kerbals and a single ship in orbit, and you can't build new ships with new parts. Instead you'd have to scrounge the solar system for parts, recovering some to create new ships, and reactivating mining bases to fuel your exploration. For this, a part inventory would be an absolute necessity.

hmm... your comment the games simplicity and flexibility. would it be possible for a mod that instead of forcing a limit simply keeps score for you? just displays what you have recovered and put on the craft you are presently building in the editor but doesn't play with how ksp handles funds kind of like a roleplaying aid? then again is suppose pen and paper would suffice unless it could also spawn parts you haven't unlocked yet for you like parts you came across as part of a testing, recovery, or rescue contract...

EDIT: your alternate gameplay mod idea sound awesome btw

Edited August 30, 2015 by passinglurker

[mattinoz]

the devs have gone over why part failure is more cruelty than game play its not everyones cup of tea (I'm more of a cocoa)

I agree with the Dev's part failures on flying craft would be bad.

To me the alternative would be to add a chance that a recovered part wouldn't pass certification and not get credited to your account. What ever "credited" means in terms of being added to a part number or funds. The chance of this failure could be higher the harder the game setting.

I always though at some stage the game would get a Jeb's junkyard - ie a random heap of lowish tier parts to start with and search for hidden gems to start your flying adventures.