On Merging Crafts & Bay Occlusion

[fireblade274]

So I made a MSTO Plane that can carry up to 30t of cargo. I made a lander I want to put in it, so I made it in the VAB, loaded it in the SAB, then saved it. Then I loaded my plane, opened the cargo bay, took out the fuel tank that was attached to the decoupler, loaded (clicked dont save) so to merge the lander with it, and the lander wont attach to the docking port or the decoupler on plane. It wont attach to anything

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0ctnoyow3k9gjqu/2015-09-01_00001.jpg?dl=0

is there an easy way to attach this with out having to construct it again, and in the cargo bay?

Edited September 2, 2015 by fireblade274

[Pecan]

Did you make the docking-port on the lander the root part?

[Warzouz]

Yes, I also had this problem. I never had any succcess with the "merge" feature. Sub assemblies works fine though. Surely I misuse it.

Even sub-assemblies are sometime hard to use : they usually have only ONE node (even it had multiples before creating the sub-assembly). This mabe related to multi-part selection, but that's very uneasy.

In any case the "Root part" concept should be hidden in the game. A real construction doesn't have a root part. It's a technical (developer code) concept, not a gameplay one.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Warzouz

[pandaman]

I've had this issue too on occasion.

I understand that the system needs a 'root' part due to how it works. Ideally sub assemblies and part craft imported for merging should keep all the original nodes. I'm sure there is a good reason, but I don't understand why that shouldn't be possible.

[Geher]

You can only attach the root part of the merging craft to your main craft. Also I always encounter a bug where the root part is about 10 meters away from the merging craft. So after clicking merge you should search where your root part is. Then you can make the root part attach to your main craft. After that you want to detach the merging craft from its root part, because nobody likes a 10 meter empty gap in their rockets. This last step often needs multiple tries because often the game selects the whole craft and not the merged one.

Man this is hard to explain. Try it out and when you don't understand a certain step just ask.

EDIT: If you don't like this "mergin bug" then you can also do it with subassemblies. Add an additional part on top of your lander. Make this part to the root part. Detach the whole lander from the root part and drop it in your subassemblies. (But you probably know that already)

Edited September 1, 2015 by Geher

[fireblade274]

I tried making the docking port on the plane a root part (clicked on it, then the cabin), and making the docking port on the lander the root part (clicked on the port, then the remote guidance unit). Both "ships" are now saved in the SAB separately. I started with the plane loaded, took out the tank, and went to load the lander. Clicked "dont save", selected lander, clicked merge, and yes the 10m root part separation bug took place.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vxnox536x788afn/2015-09-01_00002.jpg?dl=0

I'm going to try the sub assembly option

Yea that didn't work either. Even when changing to radial or symmetry it has no effect on the parts which seem to be centered around.. somthing other then the center of my plane/the docking port.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rddwebvwc51ubjk/2015-09-01_00003.jpg?dl=0

mouse moved 1mm up https://www.dropbox.com/s/j1v25ela88jwpxj/2015-09-01_00004.jpg?dl=0

1mm up again https://www.dropbox.com/s/adp11sa3y36k3rx/2015-09-01_00005.jpg?dl=0

I can with effort get it to where it is supposed to be, but it is not "catching" on anything and places free form even if angle snap is on. It acts like the docking port is not there: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mx3gmbmn3szk9v6/2015-09-01_00006.jpg?dl=0

I thought maybe once launched they would join, but alas. https://www.dropbox.com/s/o6w923kntohysux/2015-09-01_00007.jpg?dl=0 There is not even an option to de-couple them, so the one port is not even registering the other and meshes through it

I really wish parts would contain themselves in side cargo bays.. I made a post about this previously and apparently you can get around it if you attach say landing gear to a part outside the bay and angle it inside it, and it will act as a stopper to things inside it, but that's both very lame and creates unnecessary drag on designs, especially if its a large MSTO plane. Bull.....

Edited September 1, 2015 by fireblade274

[Pecan]

I tried making the docking port on the plane a root part (clicked on it, then the cabin), and making the docking port on the lander the root part (clicked on the port, then the remote guidance unit)...

Don't even get me started on why we have to do this 'click on two parts' thing (no idea!), but the SECOND one you click will become the new root, not the first. You can click the port, move the mouse off it and back to it, then click again.

It's fairly easy to check for subassemblies - when you click on them to create a clone, the only node that will show will be on the root (by definition). In fact, it shouldn't even let you save anything as a subassembly unless it has at least one free node on its root.

[fireblade274]

Yep tried it again, your right that its the second that will become the new root (silly), but it still wont let me attach it.

There are 2 green spheres showing that the port is the root part also (i think) I clicked on the port second. https://www.dropbox.com/s/wvif2iea12wn0cc/2015-09-01_00010.jpg?dl=0

And it still wont attach whether its from the sub-assembly or from craft merge. Very annoying https://www.dropbox.com/s/0aisp39frazsnox/2015-09-01_00011.jpg?dl=0

[Claw]

It looks like you've accomplished the "root part" and "merge" steps correctly, although it's hard to tell if the green sphere is on the lander's docking port.

But, I see the attachment is off. Have you tried holding the Mod key (Alt in windows) to limit the connection to node only? That might help it snap to the right spot.

- - - Updated - - -

Don't even get me started on why we have to do this 'click on two parts' thing (no idea!), but the SECOND one you click will become the new root, not the first. You can click the port, move the mouse off it and back to it, then click again.

It was to control craft tree structure rebuilding, though in practice it seems to be irrelevant (especially from a player perspective). So, for that reason, I recommend first-clicking the part adjacent to the desired new root (not the new root), then second-click on the new root. I don't know if it truly matters, but it seems like I've encountered fewer problems this way.

[fireblade274]

Claw saved the day again (what's new)

Holding Alt and a little bit of tedious effort did the trick!!! I needed to use the subassembly trick though, merging still gave the "root part is 10m away" bug. I'm quite surprised; it wasn't snapping to anything at all before I held down alt. Though I still wish cargo bays contained things better, I got the lander up and brought down the plane finally! https://www.dropbox.com/s/bxxo3xxj4um91mb/2015-09-01_00013.jpg?dl=0

The fixed landing gear I used to keep the payload inside adds a fair amount of drag and the landing struts on the lander still shows through the bottom of the cargo tank in atmospheric flight, but it didn't compromise my mission. I was left with only 30u of oxidizer left though after final burn which worries me a little..

Thank you so much again Claw and everyone else for your help. It has been invaluable to me

[fireblade274]

I took a look inside the cargo bay and it does not look like its being occluded. https://www.dropbox.com/s/10ct7qe7bj7v4rv/2015-09-01_00018.jpg?dl=0

Can I do anything to fix this? I don't care if its affected a little by temperature but its in the cargo bay and should have no drag right

[Claw]

That is probably just the aero effects, rather than actual drag. Although you can check by bringing up the ALT+F12 menu and going to the Physics tab. You can turn on the aero overlay and the "aero data in action menus" (adds info to the right-click menu) options and see what that's showing you.

Cheers,

~Claw