Math and science skills as adults are protective

[PB666]

http://www.bbc.com/news/education-34144310

[LordFerret]

How about the author of that article go back to school for some English and spelling? It's "math" or "mathematics" ... 'maths' is some bastardized word illiterates use.

[tater]

Maths is the common usage outside North America. It's their language, after all, I think they have a reasonable claim on proper usage .

[Slam_Jones]

Maths is the common usage outside North America. It's their language, after all, I think they have a reasonable claim on proper usage .

Well, they also claim that aluminum is pronounced "aluminium," despite also claiming to pronounce things exactly how they are spelled But hey, different cultures and whatnot.

According to the internet (which, being the internet, could well be wrong), both versions are correct. It just depends where you first heard it, I suppose.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Slam_Jones

[LordFerret]

According to the etymology of the word, used as such, it's improper. Originating in the UK ('maths') not in the US... their proper usage was "math's", the plural of the US convention of shortening 'mathematics' to 'math', but current day has decided to drop the apostrophe. Ergo, it is incorrect... and it irks the hell out of me.

To each his own.

[tater]

?

Did the bbc make it possessive and use an apostrophe? I see "maths" used pretty much constantly by anyone from the UK. English is not French, changes in usage change usage, the language constantly evolves (which is perhaps why it is the new lingua franca.

[peadar1987]

How about the author of that article go back to school for some English and spelling? It's "math" or "mathematics" ... 'maths' is some bastardized word illiterates use.

Like the entire English-speaking world outside of North America? Sorry, they're both acceptable abbreviations, no matter how upset that might make you.

[LordFerret]

What do you make of "teh"?

[Shpaget]

It's wrong only until enough people start using it.

As for the original topic, all I have to say is: Duh!

[Kerbart]

Well, they also claim that aluminum is pronounced "aluminium," despite also claiming to pronounce things exactly how they are spelled But hey, different cultures and whatnot.

Coming from the land that pronounces "Football" as "Soccer" (coming from "association football")?

[peadar1987]

What do you make of "teh"?

Common typo?

[Slam_Jones]

Coming from the land that pronounces "Football" as "Soccer" (coming from "association football")?

That's an entirely different word.

According to this article, the British came up with the word first. Apparently, in the 19th century, there was Association Football and Rugby Football, both of which were difficult to say, so they shortened the names to "Soccer" and "Rugger" respectively. Oddly enough, the more the Americans used the word, the less the British did, up to the point where Brits don't even want anything to do with the word. Oh, and what us Americans call Football is referred to as Gridiron in the UK (or was, back in the day).

Also this article states the same thing.

And not to mention this article that seems to agree with the others.

Gotta love the Brits always trying to blame us for their silly words

Edit: (Unrelated) Post #1,000! Woo!

Edited September 8, 2015 by Slam_Jones

[Kerbart]

As somebody with a reasonable understanding of basic math, and being confronted on a daily basis with the results of US College (I have no experience with those outside the US) education severely lacking in this field, I can only say: it seems a more complex issue than meets the eye at first.

• 
  
• There's more pressure than ever to have a college education. That brings more students to college, including those who would never finish the curriculum 20 years ago
  
• Math has not gotten easier
  
• To prevent a large amount of students from dropping out, you either drop math from the required curriculum, come up with a simplified math program for those cases where complex math is not needed or increase the amount of time spent on math education considerably.

It seems that the first option is the easiest to implement. I now have to spend time explaining to people with a masters degree how to work with percentages, and that there are other measures of center values in statistics than just the mean value. According to these fresh graduates, demonstrating that correlation does not mean causation is akin to witch-craft.

It would be good to have some kind of "applied mathematics" that includes basic statistics. Back when I went to highschool we'd have "Mathematics A" and "Mathematics B" classes. The "A" classes were primarily meant as support for business economics and included basic statistics and geometry; the "B" classes were "hardcore mathematics." It wouldn't hurt to see something like that in modern day education. Perhaps there is already?

[tater]

Modern English is all equally derivative. I'd be genuinely interested to know what people in the early British colonies in America actually sounded like. Typed variants in modern use might eventually be recognized by the dictionaries, you never know. Find a youtube video about grammar, usage, and dictionaries by Stephen Pinker, he's talked a few times on the subject in videos, and it is fascinating.

[Hcube]

"Maths" is short for mathematics in a lot of latin language...

On topic : it's weird because highschool math in France is way more advanced than in US highschool level (i frequented both and trust me i liked America better because math was guaranteed A+ ) (don't get me wrong it may be different from school to school, not trying to say anything mean about USA's educational system ). However we do have the exact same problems in France : Too many 30 years old folks incapable of telling wether a cubic meter is more or less than 100 liters, or not understanding what a parameter is (although it's so very freaking useful).

That article in the OP suggested implementing a baccalauréat exam, but i'm not sure it would make much of a difference ^^

[LordFerret]

Modern English is all equally derivative. I'd be genuinely interested to know what people in the early British colonies in America actually sounded like. Typed variants in modern use might eventually be recognized by the dictionaries, you never know. Find a youtube video about grammar, usage, and dictionaries by Stephen Pinker, he's talked a few times on the subject in videos, and it is fascinating.

It would be interesting to hear I'm sure, but I think it wouldn't be as alien as one might think. If you read old documents, letters and such, you'll find the language use not far from what it is today... although I would point out the verbiage was far more expanded especially among the educated literate; A perfect example would be our own (USA) Constitution.

Nobody writes like Gibbon anymore.

Try reading some Walter Scott, "Old Mortality" ... a favorite line of mine - "... the silent celerity with which he caused the victuals to disappear before him.". Huh? lol The first two pages of that book are what writing should be. Talk about command of one's language.

Edited September 8, 2015 by LordFerret
proper quote

[tater]

I even mean dialects, and accents. I have read that rural West Virginia may actually be closer to17th century British english than most other dialects spoken (anywhere).

[Bill Phil]

According to the etymology of the word, used as such, it's improper. Originating in the UK ('maths') not in the US... their proper usage was "math's", the plural of the US convention of shortening 'mathematics' to 'math', but current day has decided to drop the apostrophe. Ergo, it is incorrect... and it irks the hell out of me.

To each his own.

It's not incorrect if a large number of natural speakers understand it. You understand it, therefore it is correct.

It might be irking, but it's not wrong.

[LordFerret]

I even mean dialects, and accents. I have read that rural West Virginia may actually be closer to17th century British english than most other dialects spoken (anywhere).

Having traveled a number of times through WV (Bethany country!), I'd agree. Same with northeastern TN, up in the Smokey mountains... I've family there, and their kids, well, they talk like true hillbilly's. I kid them about it all the time.

As somebody with a reasonable understanding of basic math, and being confronted on a daily basis with the results of US College (I have no experience with those outside the US) education severely lacking in this field, I can only say: it seems a more complex issue than meets the eye at first.

• There's more pressure than ever to have a college education. That brings more students to college, including those who would never finish the curriculum 20 years ago
  
• Math has not gotten easier
  
• To prevent a large amount of students from dropping out, you either drop math from the required curriculum, come up with a simplified math program for those cases where complex math is not needed or increase the amount of time spent on math education considerably.
  

It seems that the first option is the easiest to implement. I now have to spend time explaining to people with a masters degree how to work with percentages, and that there are other measures of center values in statistics than just the mean value. According to these fresh graduates, demonstrating that correlation does not mean causation is akin to witch-craft.

It would be good to have some kind of "applied mathematics" that includes basic statistics. Back when I went to highschool we'd have "Mathematics A" and "Mathematics B" classes. The "A" classes were primarily meant as support for business economics and included basic statistics and geometry; the "B" classes were "hardcore mathematics." It wouldn't hurt to see something like that in modern day education. Perhaps there is already?

On education, college education at that. Here's one for you. A teacher (professor) at OCC (Ocean County College, here in NJ) teaching a course in history, touching the subject of Roman Emperor Claudius. Said teacher states that we know a lot about that period because of Claudius' own writings, from his 'autobiography' discovered in ancient scrolls. Claudius had written no such autobiography. The autobiography they took for fact was from a book by Robert Graves (author of I, Claudius), in which he made up (pure fiction, albeit historical fiction) that such scrolls were discovered, and that they contained his own autobiography. This teacher actually taught this as literal fact. I find this mind boggling.

As for your comments about 'Math A and Math B' type classes, this does exist - at least it does in NJ... and not just for math.

Edited September 8, 2015 by LordFerret

[PB666]

Maths is the common usage outside North America. It's their language, after all, I think they have a reasonable claim on proper usage .

Could be, if you were talking about subdisciplines you could say Maths. Never heard it. BTW, one of the common marks i put on manuscripts is 'technical rewrite required', and the worst part is some of these manuscripts are 70 percent plagerized from published papers. lol. Its a new world, que sera.

[Cydonian Monk]

Being from semi-rural West Virginia, I slightly disagree. What we speak is more akin to Scots than tis to English. It's decidedly not the language or "tongue" the rest of the country speaks. Maybe them Kentucky Folk speak the Queen's tongue, but they can keep it on their sides of the river.

The linguistic backgrounds of "rural" WV are vast and many. South of the Kanawha you see a great many new immigrants, mostly of Italian, Greek, Slavic or Welch descent. (Guess how Welch got its name.) These were families brought in by the greedy pricks in New York who wanted our coal but refused to employ locals (for a variety of reason). Still some old bloods, but their numbers were drowned out by the immigrant labor. Still a few entrenched Germans, too. English down there is a dirty English, incorporating lots of foreign names and slang, but still modern.

North of the Kanawha and up into Central WV, where my family is from, you see lots of old blood - Anglos, Scotch, Irish. Original immigrants. Some Swiss. Some more Germans. Families that have lived their since the get-go (like mine). Not much in the way of useful coal there, so no coal slaves brought in by the New Yorkers. The "rurals" still mostly speak the dialects of their parents. My grandfather still used LOTS of Irish words here and there, despite being second generation American (on his mother's side...). He could go on for hours about the weatherman's improper use of the word Nil.

The Northerners all sound like Pittsburghers to my Southern ears.

All of these immigrants kept their native tongues for generations. Back in my delivery/repoman days before I moved to Houston I had some customers that didn't speak the least bit of what you might call English. "Holler Crawl" was our nickname for it. A few of us in the store could understand it, most couldn't. Sounds nothing like what folks describe as "17th Century English", but sounds exactly like what my dad described hearing when he worked in Scotland. Also a bit of Birmingham English thrown in here or there.

What was this topic about again? Math?

[KerikBalm]

Well, they also claim that aluminum is pronounced "aluminium," despite also claiming to pronounce things exactly how they are spelled But hey, different cultures and whatnot.

They do spell it that way.

American and British spellings are a bit different too.

[PB666]

It would be interesting to hear I'm sure, but I think it wouldn't be as alien as one might think. If you read old documents, letters and such, you'll find the language use not far from what it is today... although I would point out the verbiage was far more expanded especially among the educated literate; A perfect example would be our own (USA) Constitution.

Nobody writes like Gibbon anymore.

Try reading some Walter Scott, "Old Mortality" ... a favorite line of mine - "... the silent celerity with which he caused the victuals to disappear before him.". Huh? lol The first two pages of that book are what writing should be. Talk about command of one's language.

If you read the beeb alot you also see a fair amount of errors, i think modern journalist are a bit sloppy. But then again I'm using an Ipad and the GUI on it has a tendancy to poke words here and there, and spuriously erase stuff when you hit the backspace button, so . . . Be glad once I get my Win10 system stabilized.

[PB666]

Well, they also claim that aluminum is pronounced "aluminium," despite also claiming to pronounce things exactly how they are spelled But hey, different cultures and whatnot.

According to the internet (which, being the internet, could well be wrong), both versions are correct. It just depends where you first heard it, I suppose.

Heres a brit that explains all that

[vger]

Coming from the land that pronounces "Football" as "Soccer" (coming from "association football")?

There's a near total denial that the word "soccer" actually DID originate in the U.K. Everyone loves to blame the U.S. for it.

And yet, nobody ever seems to ask, "Why are you referring to Rugby as Football?"