Pure electric engines

[Kalzuron]

I have been all over the interweb trying to find a mod or combo of mods that can allow me to create the kind of ships I want to fly, which would be hovering crafts capable of space flight. I want to be able to gently park a carrier near what ever cargo it needs to haul, load it up and gracefully lift off and in to orbit. Now, Throttle Controlled Avionics can give a balanced Vto, but I want a powerful engine that doesn't require half the ship to be fuel. If anyone knows if such an engine exists, please tell me. If not, could someone make one?

Btw, I've found one engine similar to what I'm looking for, but it requires the intake of air as a second fuel.

[passinglurker]

The way ksp works you need a fuel with mass in order to have any thrust so a pure electric engine won't work its a limitation imposed by the game's code unfortunately. even if it were possible it would be regarded as too OP to be worth the trouble to make by most people.

Atomic Age my work for you if you use a combo of nuclear turbines and rockets though half the rocket would instead be heavy engines...

that's kinda how rockets work volumetric efficiency is sort of a holy grail sought by engineers but never achieved.

Well at least in ksp you can achieve it by exploiting a quirk in the game balance that makes Ion engines have much more thrust than in real life making it possible to land on and take off from bodies like the mun or minmus. Mods like RLA and KSPX add a few more engines that can be helpful with this (there is also near future propulsion but it nerfs the stock ion engine in order to carve balance niches for all of its different ion engines for which there are many) of course most of these would run off xenon which can't be produced by stock ISRU (except two lower efficiency ones from RLA that run off monoprop instead)

Other than that I'd recommend either editing config files you simply just open the cheat menu and enable infinite fuel instead.

Edited September 22, 2015 by passinglurker

[Kalzuron]

Well, I guess a more efficient engine might work as well. Do you know how many 0's I can put after the decimal point for fuel cost?

[passinglurker]

Well, I guess a more efficient engine might work as well. Do you know how many 0's I can put after the decimal point for fuel cost?

If you are planning so many that you need to ask you'd really be better off just enabling infinite fuel or exploiting the hyperedit mod to roleplay out your plans

[Streetwind]

If you are planning so many that you need to ask you'd really be better off just enabling infinite fuel

Pretty much this, yes... especially since:

Do you know how many 0's I can put after the decimal point for fuel cost?

...doesn't even work

Propellant usage numbers in the config are just ratios that define the mixture of propellant A to propellant B. If you want to change the absolute fuel consumption, you need to change the Isp curve. Fuel usage is computed automatically from Isp, as per its proper physical definition.

You can also make engines that include a generator that produces a resource with mass, while the engine uses the same resource as a fuel together with electricity. That's roughly how electric airbreathing engines work... they consume Ec and IntakeAir as propellant, where IntakeAir is the one that has mass and therefore fulfills the requirement for an engine to have at least one propellant with mass. IntakeAir is not brought along in tanks though, but generated by the vessel during flight. In this case it's generated by the intakes, but you could just as well have an engine that is an intake at the same time. Or a generator for any other resource you desire.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Streetwind

[Stoney3K]

The way ksp works you need a fuel with mass in order to have any thrust so a pure electric engine won't work its a limitation imposed by the game's code unfortunately. even if it were possible it would be regarded as too OP to be worth the trouble to make by most people.

Not necessarily. Pure electric engines won't work right now because the density of EC is zero (and therefore, thrust is zero if you use them as propellant).

There is nothing that prevents you from building a physics-defying ISRU that creates fuel out of nothing but ElectricCharge. KSP does not check the law of conservation of mass, so you could make an engine that generates a propellant resource out of EC and then uses it.

The easiest example would be to modify the PB-NUK to generate MonoPropellant and then hook up a Puff engine which could keep going forever.

[passinglurker]

Not necessarily. Pure electric engines won't work right now because the density of EC is zero (and therefore, thrust is zero if you use them as propellant).

There is nothing that prevents you from building a physics-defying ISRU that creates fuel out of nothing but ElectricCharge. KSP does not check the law of conservation of mass, so you could make an engine that generates a propellant resource out of EC and then uses it.

The easiest example would be to modify the PB-NUK to generate MonoPropellant and then hook up a Puff engine which could keep going forever.

or you can just enable infinite fuel in the cheat menu which is even less work

[Stoney3K]

or you can just enable infinite fuel in the cheat menu which is even less work

Which gives you "infinite everyhing" not "just one engine that can keep going until you run out of power".

Aside from the TO's purpose for an electric-only engine, I can see its potential even if you have something that is ridiculously expensive and extremely weak. Think along the lines of a working EmDrive.

[Kalzuron]

That's about what I was looking for. I don't care if it doesn't work in the real world, whether some one had an Electric engine they made based on theoretical physics or just straight up sci-fi. I don't want all my fuel to be infinite, just the vertical lift engines. I'm looking for an anti-grav work around that will satisfy my ship building desires.

The easiest example would be to modify the PB-NUK to generate MonoPropellant and then hook up a Puff engine which could keep going forever.

I like this idea. I assume, hopefully, that it could be modified to produce xenon as well. I already have 3 Ion drives modified to give 1200, 2000, and 5000 thrust. They work well with Repulsors which i use as landing gear and to maintain hovering near ground level since they are a bit more stable and only use electricity. So, I could technically make a sub-assembly out of a modified PB-NUK to get Xenon then use a second normal one and put them both on a radial attachment node to make an infinite power loop on a per engine basis. I like it I haven't done a lot of messing around with the .cfg's besides a few minor edits, but I will definitely look in to this, thank you.

Propellant usage numbers in the config are just ratios that define the mixture of propellant A to propellant B. If you want to change the absolute fuel consumption, you need to change the Isp curve. Fuel usage is computed automatically from Isp, as per its proper physical definition.

Yeah, I noticed that when I tried it last night. Changed the value on an Ion drive to 0.0001 and Electiric usage went from 100-ish to just under 90,000

So I figured the curve might effect it as well, but I don't even know where to begin editing that field. I tried looking at other engines as examples, but it was 3am and the part of my brain responsible for doing math took one look and went in corner of my mind and cried. If you could point me to a thread that explains the Isp curve values or if its simple enough for you to explain here I'd appreciate it.

Anyways, thanks for the help and ideas

[passinglurker]

That's about what I was looking for. I don't care if it doesn't work in the real world, whether some one had an Electric engine they made based on theoretical physics or just straight up sci-fi. I don't want all my fuel to be infinite, just the vertical lift engines. I'm looking for an anti-grav work around that will satisfy my ship building desires.

What you are asking for is very specific and less than a notch bellow going full infinite to the point that it would be much less work to achieve the exact same result by just establishing some role playing rules for yourself (like no thrusting when solar panels are blocked, or arbitrarily limiting the length of your burn times) and sticking too them.

I know it takes the design challenge out of this but what challenge is there when your only concern is EC generated? The stuff is essentially free and infinite already if you tape enough generators to your ship or you use batteries making them your new fuel tanks that will either dominate the mass of your craft defeating the purpose of not simply using LFO or will be hardly used because your engines are so efficient they might as well be infinite. You are going to find that by the time you finish all this config work that ksp will look exactly like what it would have if you had simply cheated instead which is why despite the popularity of the idea no pure electric engine idea has been made into a mod

[Kalzuron]

What you are asking for is very specific and less than a notch bellow going full infinite to the point that it would be much less work to achieve the exact same result by just establishing some role playing rules for yourself (like no thrusting when solar panels are blocked, or arbitrarily limiting the length of your burn times) and sticking too them.

I know it takes the design challenge out of this but what challenge is there when your only concern is EC generated? The stuff is essentially free and infinite already if you tape enough generators to your ship or you use batteries making them your new fuel tanks that will either dominate the mass of your craft defeating the purpose of not simply using LFO or will be hardly used because your engines are so efficient they might as well be infinite. You are going to find that by the time you finish all this config work that ksp will look exactly like what it would have if you had simply cheated instead which is why despite the popularity of the idea no pure electric engine idea has been made into a mod

Look, this is a request thread. If you know how to make a mod I would appreciate any help you can supply, or any ideas how to achieve what I want to do through simple .cgf edits or what have you. If you don't and you just want to dictate to me how I should play my game then you can start you're own thread about how you feel people ought to play KSP. I don't want to Hack gravity every time I want my ship to hover because, unless I'm missing a sub-menu that targets specific ships, every other ship or rover in the area also hovers, but maybe I should just roleplay and pretend my mun rover didn't just float over on to its back and explode. I don't want to pretend, I want help from people (if they wish to offer it) to make my game more enjoyable for me and what I want to do.

The reason I want an electric engine is to combine it with other mods I'm using to get the effect of anti-gravity, since other anti-grav mods don't to work well for me I'm trying to find a work around.

So to get my ships to behave how I want them to I am using a group of mods together

1: Kerbal Foundries (repulsors as landing gear and low altitude hovering)

2: Throttle Controlled Avionics(take over hovering control when max height by replusor is reached)

3: Quantum Strut or Infernal Robotics (to anchor/park)

4: some kind of pure electric engine(the missing piece necessary to simulate an anti-gravity field)

[Enceos]

Pure electric engines are available in the Interstellar Extended mod. The thrust is called Quantum Vacuum and is unlocked in the latest nodes of the tech tree.

[Kalzuron]

Thank you very much, I wish I had the time to look at every mod and the possibilities they provide(or to make my own). I appreciate the help and the fact that this forum exists to allow us help each other enjoy KSP in our own ways.

[Enceos]

Thank you very much, I wish I had the time to look at every mod and the possibilities they provide(or to make my own). I appreciate the help and the fact that this forum exists to allow us help each other enjoy KSP in our own ways.

You're welcome,

I learned about the existence of many mods through twitch streams and youtube channels. Scott Manley was the one to show the world the Interstellar mod.

[that1steve]

Iv actually modified my ion engines so operate on just electric charge (xenon is .01/hr or something insane) and has a thrust of 250 AND generates alot of energy while on. let me know if you still need it and i can tweak it to your exact needs.

[Lt Vax]

Since no one has put a code for doing Electric Engines I'll do it. This is not OP. Add it to a stander rocket engine, just remove engine effects and change the sound to Ion.

RESOURCE
{
 name = Microwaves
 amount = 10
 maxAmount = 10
}

MODULE
{
    name = ModuleEngines
    thrustVectorTransformName = thrustTransform
    exhaustDamage = False
    ignitionThreshold = 0.1
    minThrust = 0
    maxThrust = 2.25
    heatProduction = 12
    PROPELLANT
    {
        name = Microwaves
        ratio = 2.8
    }
    atmosphereCurve
     {
        key = 0 4200
     }

}

MODULE {
    name = ModuleGenerator
    isAlwaysActive = True
    requiresAllInputs = True
// --- POWER RESERVE SAFETY ---
    resourceThreshold = 1
// --- POWER RESERVE SAFETY ---
    INPUT_RESOURCE {
            name = ElectricCharge
            rate = 1
        }
        OUTPUT_RESOURCE {
            name = Microwaves
            rate = 1
        }
}

MODULE
{
    name = ModuleTestSubject

    // nowhere: 0, srf: 1, ocean: 2, atmo: 4, space: 8
    environments = 15

    useStaging = True
    useEvent = True
} 

Also create the resource.

RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
    name = Microwaves
    density = 0.01
    unitCost = 0.01
    flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
    transfer = PUMP
} 

[Kalzuron]

Since no one has put a code for doing Electric Engines I'll do it. This is not OP. Add it to a stander rocket engine, just remove engine effects and change the sound to Ion.

RESOURCE
{
 name = Microwaves
 amount = 10
 maxAmount = 10
}

MODULE
{
    name = ModuleEngines
    thrustVectorTransformName = thrustTransform
    exhaustDamage = False
    ignitionThreshold = 0.1
    minThrust = 0
    maxThrust = 2.25
    heatProduction = 12
    PROPELLANT
    {
        name = Microwaves
        ratio = 2.8
    }
    atmosphereCurve
     {
        key = 0 4200
     }

}

MODULE {
    name = ModuleGenerator
    isAlwaysActive = True
    requiresAllInputs = True
// --- POWER RESERVE SAFETY ---
    resourceThreshold = 1
// --- POWER RESERVE SAFETY ---
    INPUT_RESOURCE {
            name = ElectricCharge
            rate = 1
        }
        OUTPUT_RESOURCE {
            name = Microwaves
            rate = 1
        }
}

MODULE
{
    name = ModuleTestSubject

    // nowhere: 0, srf: 1, ocean: 2, atmo: 4, space: 8
    environments = 15

    useStaging = True
    useEvent = True
} 

Also create the resource.

RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
    name = Microwaves
    density = 0.01
    unitCost = 0.01
    flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
    transfer = PUMP
} 

Hell yeah, I'll be adding that to my game for sure! Thanks!

[Lt Vax]

Not a problem, only took me 10mins or so to rig up and test, tho I did not test the energy consumption properly so it might be a lil OP. Just wish more people were willing to put a bit of effort into there replies as some raise more questions than answers.