[1.0.4] Take the VTOL pilot skill challenge and earn a badge!

[goldenpeach]

Finally.

I made it.

I can't think of the number of time I crashed while trying to pass trough these hangars

the images are here

Edited October 9, 2015 by goldenpeach

[tetryds]

Hey look a VTOL challenge!

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2,3,5,7 and 8 were made on multiplayer (goldenpeach blew up the SPH while I was landing at that water tower :U).

So, no resets on them.

All of them using FAR, of course.

I guess I should attempt the actual challenge but I don't have time.

[Darren9]

There should maybe be divisions 5 and 6 with no reaction wheels, not that there'd be many entries but that's how current IRL VTOL's fly.

[burnoutforzai]

Spent a while on this, pretty sure that I can improve the time but I'm fine with 3rd place (for now)

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[goldenpeach]

(...)

2,3,5,7 and 8 were made on multiplayer (goldenpeach blew up the SPH while I was landing at that water tower :U).

(...)

Well, as long as the tower don't fall, it's ok

(and the ironic thing is that I blew it when I was trying to land on it with a VTOL )

[MunGazer]

Finally.

I made it.

I can't think of the number of time I crashed while trying to pass trough these hangars

the images are here

Congrats on your success! Sounds like you worked at it diligently. No doubt you've picked up some skills along the way.

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Hey look a VTOL challenge!

http://imgur.com/a/lA0VS

2,3,5,7 and 8 were made on multiplayer (goldenpeach blew up the SPH while I was landing at that water tower :U).

So, no resets on them.

All of them using FAR, of course.

I guess I should attempt the actual challenge but I don't have time.

Wow, crazy stunts there. Apparently it will in fact hang. You don't have the time for this challenge? What if I told you I had a job opening for you as a KSP vtol pilot making 100 kerbucks per hour? j/k.

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There should maybe be divisions 5 and 6 with no reaction wheels, not that there'd be many entries but that's how current IRL VTOL's fly.

Good point, and you're right, real life VTOLs (jet powered) use puffers here and there to maneuver during hovers. I'm on the fence about adding a 5th and 6th division... if others mention something about wanting it, I'll implement it in the interest of competition. So we just need some challengers for you . Until then, I tell you what... if you make an entry in one of the original divisions that follows the reaction wheel free discipline (other than the torque provided by the command pod used), it will just have to serve as a sense of personal accomplishment for you and, if I decide to implement the other division, you may optionally transfer that entry to it. That way, your efforts on such a craft in the meantime won't be wasted. Is that alright? My preference for now would just be to have it as bragging rights and/or your own touch of style for entries.

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Spent a while on this, pretty sure that I can improve the time but I'm fine with 3rd place (for now)

http://imgur.com/a/0ELE1

I listed your entry in the basic certification section for now, and I apologize if my instructions weren't clear regarding a video being required for speed runs. The reason I'm mandating that is just in the interest of high level competition and to add an element of enhanced spectatorship to the challenge. I went back and adjusted my verbage to hopefully help reduce any further misunderstandings. That being said, interesting design approach for speed, seems like you were going for minimized drag and maximized TWR, that may be the smallest ship we've seen yet.

Edited October 10, 2015 by MunGazer

[The_Rocketeer]

There should maybe be divisions 5 and 6 with no reaction wheels, not that there'd be many entries but that's how current IRL VTOL's fly.

I disagree on this one. Reaction wheels are a lot more representative of puffer jets than RCS or vernor jets, which require a separate fuel source (mono or ox) and have far more thrust than puffers would. Meanwhile, reaction wheels add a little weight and a small amount of torque. Arguably you could insist on a limit on the number of reaction wheels, but in practice I find too many wheels makes the VTOL more difficult to fly.

There is a case for a hardcore 'no SAS' division, but that wouldn't be for reasons of realism either - VTOLs have a lot of software support to keep them the right way up. It would also be just about impossible for anybody who doesn't use a joystick.

[MunGazer]

I disagree on this one. Reaction wheels are a lot more representative of puffer jets than RCS or vernor jets, which require a separate fuel source (mono or ox) and have far more thrust than puffers would. Meanwhile, reaction wheels add a little weight and a small amount of torque. Arguably you could insist on a limit on the number of reaction wheels, but in practice I find too many wheels makes the VTOL more difficult to fly.

There is a case for a hardcore 'no SAS' division, but that wouldn't be for reasons of realism either - VTOLs have a lot of software support to keep them the right way up. It would also be just about impossible for anybody who doesn't use a joystick.

You also make good points here. RCS is, as we know, primarily intended to orient things in the vacuum of space, and as such, separate tanks with the weight, required space, and structural considerations of fuel with their containers become an additional part of the equation that, when it comes to splitting hairs for VTOL realism, to some degree cancel out the realism attained by abstaining from reaction wheel torque as a means to orient the craft; in fact, I could see how reaction torque would be, as The_Rocketeer said, a step closer to the diverted air through tubes from the main jets used in real VTOLs.

I understand Darren9, however, that your intent is likely just for a greater hurdle in the engineering aspect of the challenge, something you've demonstrated a great deal of proficiency in with your first entry. If there was a realistic VTOL puffer mod that required you to plan the layout of those puffers (which would be an important factor in the overall design of the craft), I'd quickly add a division for it.

In this challenge, I had hoped mostly for creativity with regard to design as opposed to realism. For me, one of the beautiful things about ksp is that it strikes a good balance between the hard work and amount of time spent in engineering and the sense of accomplishment and fun you get to have with the finished product of your craft. That start-to-finish pipeline can be pulled or compressed to either have things be vastly complex or stupidly simple, and everything in between. This allows people with varying levels of leisure time, interest, and ability to enjoy a custom fit ksp experience.

[The_Rocketeer]

Gotcha Vegetal!

4 minutes 10 seconds - Division 1 Speedrun. I can probably get under 4 minutes but I goofed twice - left flaps down at the island, and braked late on return to KSC. Also I opened the F3 menu 3 times at the end cos I wanted to make sure my speed was absolutely 0 m/s. Apart from that, I am well pleased with my piloting - for once, today, it was really working.

I call this one the Swift Mk.I (craft link). My only complaint is trans-sonic instability - u can see how it pulls when I'm braking down to hover speeds.

[MunGazer]

Gotcha Vegetal!

4 minutes 10 seconds - Division 1 Speedrun. I can probably get under 4 minutes but I goofed twice - left flaps down at the island, and braked late on return to KSC. Also I opened the F3 menu 3 times at the end cos I wanted to make sure my speed was absolutely 0 m/s. Apart from that, I am well pleased with my piloting - for once, today, it was really working.

I call this one the Swift Mk.I (craft link). My only complaint is trans-sonic instability - u can see how it pulls when I'm braking down to hover speeds.

Very impressive run rocketeer. I updated you as being in first place, and your original entry was archived in the basic cert area with the tag [Former speed run].

[burnoutforzai]

He wasn't going under 5m/s at the first point :/

AH BALLS I DIDN'T READ THAT IT WAS 72 M/S KASDJF;LKDSJ

[DirkLarien]

is it still on ?

Am tempted to build something v-toly :-)

Or remake Locust and take it for a spin :-)

[The_Rocketeer]

Heck yes DirkLarien, get to it!

[MunGazer]

He wasn't going under 5m/s at the first point :/

AH BALLS I DIDN'T READ THAT IT WAS 72 M/S KASDJF;LKDSJ

Huh? Which entry are you referring to? Or maybe you sort of meant nevermind?

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is it still on ?

Am tempted to build something v-toly :-)

Or remake Locust and take it for a spin :-)

Yes, it's still on. Holding this challenge was a decision that's been in the making for months now, because I knew it would be something I'd need to be persistent with and that it would take some degree of dedication. After some time, I realized that I do come and visit the challenges section of the forum frequently enough that I knew I could manage hosting a challenge. So far it's been a lot of fun seeing the diverse entries. It's turning into somewhat of an art gallery. So yes, I do plan to be here for the long haul on this one. You can take your time with it, or jump to it.

[tetryds]

Ok, fine, you convinced me, I will give this a try.

Does Raster Prop Monitor count as a mod? I am thinking about doing it from IVA but I need the cameras for landing.

I would still want to compete on the Division 3, but if it counts as FAR-modded I will just land from the external view.

[FlipNascar]

snip snip snip

If there was a realistic VTOL puffer mod that required you to plan the layout of those puffers (which would be an important factor in the overall design of the craft), I'd quickly add a division for it.

snip snip snip

One of the two Mk2 Expansion packs, can't remember which, does indeed include "air RCS" blocks. They run off intake air, and need to be positioned and activated just like RCS.... Quick google, found it: It's the Quiztech pack: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/111691-WIP-1-0-4-(Dev-Paused)-QuizTech-Aero-Pack-v1-2-9-x-Updated-8-9-15

[MunGazer]

Ok, fine, you convinced me, I will give this a try.

Does Raster Prop Monitor count as a mod? I am thinking about doing it from IVA but I need the cameras for landing.

I would still want to compete on the Division 3, but if it counts as FAR-modded I will just land from the external view.

Raster Prop Monitor is fine and because it doesn't affect the mass, drag, etc. of parts I won't count it as a mod. Regarding cameras, I'll also consider them assistant informational/piloting tools as well. I'll update the rules to allow for cameras and Raster Prop Monitor. Yes, you're welcome to do a Division 3 entry with the said items.

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One of the two Mk2 Expansion packs, can't remember which, does indeed include "air RCS" blocks. They run off intake air, and need to be positioned and activated just like RCS.... Quick google, found it: It's the Quiztech pack: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/111691-WIP-1-0-4-(Dev-Paused)-QuizTech-Aero-Pack-v1-2-9-x-Updated-8-9-15

Hmm.. K-21 RCS Jet Thruster. Cool, I suppose then that if Darren9 or any others would still like that division added for that particular mod, and intent is expressed to make an entry using that particular part, then consider it done as far as adding the division.

Edited October 11, 2015 by MunGazer

[Vegetal]

You left me no choice you know? I raise you a 3:46

https://youtu.be/wM0FWJKBkF4

This time the landings were pretty much spot on, apart from the last one having quite a high approach. It starts to get tricky from now on...

The video is quite laggy, I tried to record in 1080p and my computer didn't like the idea much, sorry for that. And MunGazer, the name of the plane is Aero Lander.

[Darren9]

~snip~

Hmm.. K-21 RCS Jet Thruster. Cool, I suppose then that if Darren9 or any others would still like that division added for that particular mod, and intent is expressed to make an entry using that particular part, then consider it done as far as adding the division.

There's another that I personally prefer, B9 has a single port "air RCS". That Quiztech one for me seems to make a lot of thrust (20). I think the B9 one is a bit less but there's not much difference between them otherwise. This doesn't guarantee an entry from me though, thinking I could probably get something decent working and actually having a completed craft scooting through the test course are two different things

[The_Rocketeer]

you left me no choice you know? I raise you a 3:46

https://youtu.be/wm0fwjkbkf4

this time the landings were pretty much spot on, apart from the last one having quite a high approach. It starts to get tricky from now on...

The video is quite laggy, i tried to record in 1080p and my computer didn't like the idea much, sorry for that. And mungazer, the name of the plane is aero lander.

It is on!

[MunGazer]

You left me no choice you know? I raise you a 3:46

https://youtu.be/wM0FWJKBkF4

This time the landings were pretty much spot on, apart from the last one having quite a high approach. It starts to get tricky from now on...

The video is quite laggy, I tried to record in 1080p and my computer didn't like the idea much, sorry for that. And MunGazer, the name of the plane is Aero Lander.

Ok, thanks Vegetal. I updated for your craft name and congrats on grabbing the lead again.

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There's another that I personally prefer, B9 has a single port "air RCS". That Quiztech one for me seems to make a lot of thrust (20). I think the B9 one is a bit less but there's not much difference between them otherwise. This doesn't guarantee an entry from me though, thinking I could probably get something decent working and actually having a completed craft scooting through the test course are two different things

Cool, I take your word for it on the B9 part. I'll be open to it as well. Good luck on the builds.

[SasquatchM]

Well, it doesn't quite qualify, but I liked the design so I'm going to post the video anyway.

[MunGazer]

Well, it doesn't quite qualify, but I liked the design so I'm going to post the video anyway.

I loved the design - a TRANSFORMER! More than meets the eye! At first I was just like ho hum, another wacky dragonfly looking thing. Then *whrrrr* it transformed and my jaw hit the floor. I hope you get the final approach stability worked out, and thanks for sharing.

Edit: Hope I didn't sound insulting about the dragonfly profile. I only meant to convey my sense of surprise with the transformation ability, the wing concept is cool.

Edited October 30, 2015 by MunGazer

[DirkLarien]

I apologize i takes so long .... i wont be wining any speed record ... i finally got to actually making it working and flyable.

...

.. lots of cool wing stuff had to go for usability :-/

Had to replace main engine with smaller one had fuel issues...

..

But he is still kinda cute :-)

When i manage to make to course i will post video...

in the mean time here some teaser pics ;-)

Forward flight servo config

[MunGazer]

I apologize i takes so long .... i wont be wining any speed record ... i finally got to actually making it working and flyable.

...

.. lots of cool wing stuff had to go for usability :-/

Had to replace main engine with smaller one had fuel issues...

..

But he is still kinda cute :-)

When i manage to make to course i will post video...

in the mean time here some teaser pics ;-)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-M5FKbZx-NMI/VjKi0CJHNuI/AAAAAAAAAT0/hEDXJkAw3EA/w952-h762-no/Screenshot-6.png

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-jhzBrb2mHlw/VjKi0QX2EMI/AAAAAAAAAT4/heE93DE75Ko/w952-h762-no/Screenshot-8.png

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5DSaypshmxs/VjKi1E6AQUI/AAAAAAAAAUA/eGYHKiKuOjg/w952-h762-no/Screenshot-9.png

Forward flight servo config

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-alYYtMh3JF4/VjKi0SbHLcI/AAAAAAAAAT8/PdiuZz9z_rQ/w952-h762-no/Screenshot-10.png

It's ok, I don't mind if you take your time with things. Not many people have enough time for this kind of project, and even if they do a unique and well made craft can take several weeks worth of development.

Wow that is an amazing concept! It must take a lot of hard work to make a transforming VTOL. I look forward to seeing more of it

Edited October 30, 2015 by MunGazer