Astronomers may have found giant alien 'megastructures' orbiting a star in the Milky Way

[andrew123]

The universe is full of weird things. I highly appreciate studying them, of course, I can even live with one of these things making a news headline. What I can not appreciate is panic. I'm pretty sure, in a year or two this whatever-you-call-it will become 'oh one of these outdated news, let's watch a new reality show instead'. I just know it So why panicking? Let's think about things that will be important tomorrow.

What if this turns out to be important? That's exactly the type of cynical thinking that impedes progress. Have some faith in humanity. It really pays off.

[Findthepin1]

In my opinion, if it's artificial, it's likely been there for hundreds of millions, or billions, of years. Whoever built it is probably long dead. From the irregularity of the actual data, I am going to guess it's a ruined Dyson Sphere that a planet crashed into hundreds of millions of years after its construction, that was left spinning with at least one big hole in it (depending on the material of the planet and that of the structure) for hundreds of millions of years more until we noticed it.

Another, much more unlikely IMO, version of this theory is that it's a Dyson Sphere under construction, but this would be an astronomically () large coincidence because it would mean the two civilizations arose (out of a more than 13 billion-year opportunity window) within a few centuries of each other.

We should watch it to see if the brightness variations change over the next 50 or so years, or if we can build a telescope that can actually see it, do that for the same reason. If the structure seems to grow, it's under construction and we should attempt to contact the civilization. Not that they'll be likely to hear us in our radio waves, but it's worth a try. I think they'd have had to get all their world leaders to cooperate with each other in order to build something like this, which means by extension a type 2 civilization probably won't even think of conflict with us if we "talk" to them peacefully.

Although it's like:

"Hey, do you think any aliens will see this thing?" 413 AD

"Hey KIC8462852ers! We're here, we exist!" 2015 AD

"Look, a radio signal. Must be natural, nobody uses those anymore." 3466 AD

"Maybe it wasn't a natural signal. Maybe it was ALIENS. I'm sending a return message with this makeshift radio. Looks like it came almost straight from LOL1749472940 d, I've always though that wasn't as good a candidate as c, but maybe I'm wrong. This simulation can't be." 3502 AD (reference)

"Hey, I've got a signal on this ancient piece of technology, the iP-n 14. I'm surprised, it's the last thing ever made by a very-nearly-3000-year-old organization and it still works. Says Hey aliens, come join our civilization club! We'll tell you how to build an instant messaging system so we don't have to wait 1200 years, sorry 1500 of your years, to have one small Speak-n'-Spell exchange using a code made with the properties of hydrogen. Here are your instructions on how to do that, and we'll get your reply instantly after you send it. We'll send you blueprints for all our technology, and any extra knowledge too, if you do the same for us. Also, we want to talk to your world council, because they might want to join the Group, that's what we call our group of civilizations here. We're the second, you would be the ninth (again reference). Here follows your instructions for the instant messaging system, to begin with you will need access to a Calabi-Yau space and something massive that can vibrate..." 4953 AD

…And so on and so forth. As you can see in this fictional scenario, it took almost 3000 years for us to be able to have a real-time conversation.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Findthepin1

[Wjolcz]

Aaaaand the star is now mentioned in the Dyson Sphere article on Wikipedia.

Whatever that is I have nothing against pointing telescopes that way to find the answer.

[Kryten]

it blocks a quarter of the light of a reasonably large star. There's no way a solid object that large ISNT significantly wobbling the star, but nothing like that is mentioned.

A planet or planetesimal with a huge cloud of dust around it could do it, but that isn't going to be stable without the star still having a circumstellar disk to draw dust from, and all that dust would absorb light, give off IR, and cause a relative IR excess, which the star doesn't have.

In my opinion, if it's artificial, it's likely been there for hundreds of millions, or billions, of years. Whoever built it is probably long dead. From the irregularity of the actual data, I am going to guess it's a ruined Dyson Sphere that a planet crashed into hundreds of millions of years after its construction, that was left spinning with at least one big hole in it (depending on the material of the planet and that of the structure) for hundreds of millions of years more until we noticed it.

Another, much more unlikely IMO, version of this theory is that it's a Dyson Sphere under construction, but this would be an astronomically () large coincidence because it would mean the two civilizations arose (out of a more than 13 billion-year opportunity window) within a few centuries of each other.

A dyson sphere, ruined or othwerwise, would cause a large IR excess.

[_Augustus_]

A planet or planetesimal with a huge cloud of dust around it could do it, but that isn't going to be stable without the star still having a circumstellar disk to draw dust from, and all that dust would absorb light, give off IR, and cause a relative IR excess, which the star doesn't have.

A dyson sphere, ruined or othwerwise, would cause a large IR excess.

Either way, they didn't search for IR excess, right?

Also if it wasn't ruined it IS a Dyson Sphere, guys. It's designed to harvest energy. Why would it emit lots of IR if the aliens used it all?

[Albert VDS]

Either way, they didn't search for IR excess, right?

Also if it wasn't ruined it IS a Dyson Sphere, guys. It's designed to harvest energy. Why would it emit lots of IR if the aliens used it all?

But you can't use all of it's energy because nothing is 100% efficient.

The users of this Dyson Sphere would need to keep warm and heat gives off IR.

[KerikBalm]

Well my mind obviously goes to some kind of gravitationally disrupted object or collision (moon creating one?). They themselves mention an alternative of a string of comets being a bad explanation, but I'm a little curious on how they rule the others out or atleast find them unlikely?

The "debris" is confined to some sort of narrow orbit? Maybe it's getting sheparded around?

EDIT: And come on ... there's what? Over 100 billion stars in the galaxy, that something might just have happened (in astronomical terms) isn't that farfetched.

This...

An uncommon occurance seems more likely... kepler has looked at what... hundred of thousands of stars?

As one article mentions:

The last idea the astronomers looked at was a series of comets orbiting the star. These could be surrounded by clouds of gas and other material that could produce the dips seen. The lack of IR is puzzling in that case, but not too damning. If another star happened to pass nearby, then its gravity could disturb the first star’s Oort cloud, the region billions of kilometers out where we think most (if not all) stars have billions of icy objects. This disturbance could send these ice chunks flying down toward the star, where they could break up, creating all those weird dipsâ€â€ices in them would heat up, blow off as a gas, and could explain the odd shapes of the dips detected, too.

And, as it happens, there is another star pretty close to KIC 8462852; a small red dwarf about 130 billion kilometers out. That’s close enough to affect the Oort cloud.

This doesn’t close the case, though. Comets are a good guess, but it’s hard to imagine a scenario where they could completely block 22 percent of the light from a star; that’s a huge amount. Really huge.

Sure... it sounds improbable... but we've looked at hundreds of thousands of stars.

It seems improbable to me to have such an advanced civilizations only 1,400 light years from us... when we've been floating around on this planet for 3,700,000,000 years.

A civilization that could build a dyson sphere or anything like that should have colonized the Earth or destroyed it constructing something massive long ago if it was that close.

The mere fact that we exist implies there's no super-advanced aliens nearby.

Edited October 16, 2015 by KerikBalm

[Albert VDS]

A civilization that could build a dyson sphere or anything like that should have colonized the Earth or destroyed it constructing something massive long ago if it was that close.

The mere fact that we exist implies there's no super-advanced aliens nearby.

That's assuming that these beings would consider invading and conquer an other solar system.

Us being alive today doesn't proof that there isn't an advanced civilization 1400 light years from us.

[SuperFastJellyfish]

Could it be something going on with the star itself? Some transient state before a change in the phase of its life(nova, magnetic poles flipping, etc), maybe? I know very little about stars to say much else though.

[_Augustus_]

This...

An uncommon occurance seems more likely... kepler has looked at what... hundred of thousands of stars?

As one article mentions:

Sure... it sounds improbable... but we've looked at hundreds of thousands of stars.

It seems improbable to me to have such an advanced civilizations only 1,400 light years from us... when we've been floating around on this planet for 3,700,000,000 million years.

A civilization that could build a dyson sphere or anything like that should have colonized the Earth or destroyed it constructing something massive long ago if it was that close.

The mere fact that we exist implies there's no super-advanced aliens nearby.

130 billion KM is only 870 AU, that's no nearby red dwarf, that's a companion.

Hmmph. Maybe those aliens came from the red dwarf and built the Dyson sphere around the white star?

Also why would they need to colonize us? We live in a boring part of our stellar neighborhood which is in a boring part of the galaxy in general. If they can make a Dyson sphere, they don't need habitable planets. They could maybe visit cool ones, but they don't need to colonize them. At most they'd put a hotel.

[baggers]

If this is really a fragment of a Dyson sphere, it's terrifying.

- We have searched for Type 3 civ in more than 100.000 galaxies, and found nothing.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/alien-supercivilizations-absent-from-100-000-nearby-galaxies/

- We have searched for Type 2 civ in milky way, and found nothing.

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/10/the-best-way-to-find-aliens-look-for-their-solar-power-plants/263217/

- We have searched for Type 1 civ in neighbour space, and found nothing.

And then, we found an isolated dying partial Dyson sphere, inachieved, in the Great Silence.

It mean that the Great Filter is... ahead of us...

Edited October 15, 2015 by baggers

[Kryten]

Either way, they didn't search for IR excess, right?

It doesn't have one, from WFRIRST results. All this is clearly stated in the paper, most of it is pretty readable.

[YNM]

Have they checked radial velocity graph for the star ? A "sphere" would exert almost no force to give the radial velocity. Also, radial velocity data would help in trying to tell how many objects, their masses etc.

[andrew123]

If this is really a fragment of a Dyson sphere, it's terrifying.

- We have searched for Type 3 civ in more than 100.000 galaxies, and found nothing.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/alien-supercivilizations-absent-from-100-000-nearby-galaxies/

- We have searched for Type 2 civ in milky way, and found nothing.

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/10/the-best-way-to-find-aliens-look-for-their-solar-power-plants/263217/

- We have searched for Type 1 civ in neighbour space, and found nothing.

And then, we found an isolated dying partial Dyson sphere, inachieved, in the Great Silence.

It mean that the Great Filter is... ahead of us...

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/961974trouble.jpg

Haha. And even that civilization might've run into its own filter.

If this is real, I say it's a good sign. I say that humanity can cross those boundaries and dominate the stars.

If this is genuine, perhaps the Pentagon will magically find the resources to develop FTL and salvage the technology of the dyson sphere for creative applications. Maybe this'll inspire our species to go on a FTL development race.

Edited October 16, 2015 by andrew123

[Halo_003]

Haha. And even that civilization might've run into its own filter.

If this is real, I say it's a good sign. I say that humanity can cross those boundaries and dominate the stars.

If this is genuine, perhaps the Pentagon will magically find the resources to develop FTL and salvage the technology of the dyson sphere for creative applications. Maybe this'll inspire our species to go on a FTL development race.

Now that is a positively awesome premise for a book.

[Armchair Rocket Scientist]

If this is really a fragment of a Dyson sphere, it's terrifying.

- We have searched for Type 3 civ in more than 100.000 galaxies, and found nothing.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/alien-supercivilizations-absent-from-100-000-nearby-galaxies/

- We have searched for Type 2 civ in milky way, and found nothing.

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/10/the-best-way-to-find-aliens-look-for-their-solar-power-plants/263217/

- We have searched for Type 1 civ in neighbour space, and found nothing.

And then, we found an isolated dying partial Dyson sphere, inachieved, in the Great Silence.

It mean that the Great Filter is... ahead of us...

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/961974trouble.jpg

How do you know it isn't behind us? Say, that the probability of a species developing to the point where it's capable of forming a technological civilization is extremely low, and very few planets have agriculture, much less Dyson Spheres.

[baggers]

How do you know it isn't behind us? Say, that the probability of a species developing to the point where it's capable of forming a technological civilization is extremely low, and very few planets have agriculture, much less Dyson Spheres.

I've assumed this is a remain of a destroyed civ': it's unlikely we have spotted a "in construction" Dyson sphere because galactic timeline. The remain is likely here from 1-2 bilions years. It's dead in the Great Silence and have hit the Great Filter a bit before becoming full type 2 civ. And we are approximately type 1.

[CptRichardson]

If this is really a fragment of a Dyson sphere, it's terrifying.

- We have searched for Type 3 civ in more than 100.000 galaxies, and found nothing.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/alien-supercivilizations-absent-from-100-000-nearby-galaxies/

- We have searched for Type 2 civ in milky way, and found nothing.

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/10/the-best-way-to-find-aliens-look-for-their-solar-power-plants/263217/

- We have searched for Type 1 civ in neighbour space, and found nothing.

And then, we found an isolated dying partial Dyson sphere, inachieved, in the Great Silence.

It mean that the Great Filter is... ahead of us...

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/961974trouble.jpg

Or, you know, it could be a dyson swarm segment, as instead of building an insane and impractical sphere, they just built enough power generation to meet their needs for the foreseeable future, and are quite happy without an impractical boondoggle of a superstructure.

[baggers]

Or, you know, it could be a dyson swarm segment, as instead of building an insane and impractical sphere, they just built enough power generation to meet their needs for the foreseeable future, and are quite happy without an impractical boondoggle of a superstructure.

It's possible, but it's just another type of "great Filter", just a smooth one: In all case, the expansion of that civ' has stopped.

[CptRichardson]

It's possible, but it's just another type of "great Filter", just a smooth one: In all case, the expansion of that civ' has stopped.

Or, maybe they don't need a giant sphere to keep going, and are efficiently using the energy provided by their swarm to keep themselves powered while looking around and deciding on their next move? You know, since the sheer raw power suggested by even a swarm means that they have the time to plan and consider before launching interstellar travel.

Or they're intentionally avoiding us after noticing that we're likely developing, or this might just be an outpost station.

We don't know, other than 'this looks a hell of a lot like a dyson swarm, let's look at it more'. It's irresponsible to speculate on whether or not this civilization is alive/dead/prospering/not until we know for sure that this phenomenon is artificial, let alone 'is it working'.

[WestAir]

Assuming this is alien, why is everyone assuming it's the remnants of dead aliens?

How do you even destroy a DS with a RKKV?

[baggers]

Or, maybe they don't need a giant sphere to keep going, and are efficiently using the energy provided by their swarm to keep themselves powered while looking around and deciding on their next move? You know, since the sheer raw power suggested by even a swarm means that they have the time to plan and consider before launching interstellar travel.

Or they're intentionally avoiding us after noticing that we're likely developing, or this might just be an outpost station.

We don't know, other than 'this looks a hell of a lot like a dyson swarm, let's look at it more'. It's irresponsible to speculate on whether or not this civilization is alive/dead/prospering/not until we know for sure that this phenomenon is artificial, let alone 'is it working'.

Hmm. I'm not sure.

The first evidence they haven't keep expanding is that they aren't installed on solar system. Nor in any other milky way star, or another galaxy.

A second evidence of that is the "Great Silence" and total absence of probes, or other alive, past or present signs of that civ' in our immediate surroundings.

Thay have started that Dyson swarm, and stopped it. It's not anodyne.

This is a "what if" discusion about what it implies for humanity if this is a partial Dyson. I don't think it's that irresponsible. It's intended to help the humanity to make the best next move by undestanding his surroundings.

[KerikBalm]

130 billion KM is only 870 AU, that's no nearby red dwarf, that's a companion.

Hmmph. Maybe those aliens came from the red dwarf and built the Dyson sphere around the white star?

870 AU is darn close... but a companion would imply that its a gavitationally bound system.

If the red dwarf is whizzing by, then its not a companion... and it would cause all sorts of havoc on the start system.

We're likely seeing the result of that havoc.

Lets not jump to aliens...

FYI

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oort_cloud

a theoretical spherical cloud of predominantly icy planetesimals believed to surround the Sun at a distance of up to around 100,000 AU (2 ly).[3] This places it at almost half of the distance to Proxima Centauri, the nearest star to the Sun, and in interstellar space.

That Red Dwarf is less than 0.02 light years away from that other star...

Even if it is a companion... maybe having such a close star has weird shepharding effects on the planetary system of the main star... maybe similar to jupiter and the asteroid belt.

It is extremely premature to assume super advanced aliens....

[_Augustus_]

870 AU is darn close... but a companion would imply that its a gavitationally bound system.

If the red dwarf is whizzing by, then its not a companion... and it would cause all sorts of havoc on the start system.

We're likely seeing the result of that havoc.

Lets not jump to aliens...

FYI

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oort_cloud

That Red Dwarf is less than 0.02 light years away from that other star...

Even if it is a companion... maybe having such a close star has weird shepharding effects on the planetary system of the main star... maybe similar to jupiter and the asteroid belt.

It is extremely premature to assume super advanced aliens....

Nah. We haven't studied the red dwarf and have no idea if it's a companion. The white star is apparent mag 11, so the red dwarf will probably be no fainter than 14 or so because it's at the same distance. This means that anyone with a computerized telescope could look at this thing and measure the proper motion difference, etc. to see if it's a companion or not.

[78stonewobble]

Sure it might be the least likely explanation and quite sought... But it is an interesting explanation.

- - - Updated - - -

Hmm. I'm not sure.

The first evidence they haven't keep expanding is that they aren't installed on solar system. Nor in any other milky way star, or another galaxy.

A second evidence of that is the "Great Silence" and total absence of probes, or other alive, past or present signs of that civ' in our immediate surroundings.

Thay have started that Dyson swarm, and stopped it. It's not anodyne.

This is a "what if" discusion about what it implies for humanity if this is a partial Dyson. I don't think it's that irresponsible. It's intended to help the humanity to make the best next move by undestanding his surroundings.

You can't really conclude they have stopped. All we know is that they were constructing something, x lightyear distance time ago. What they've been doing in the meantime we don't know. Whether it's their first or last space megastructure, we wouldn't know.

As far as I know space megastructures ARE technically possible, much more so than FTL, so I don't think we should let FTL enter the explanations.

It could be structures to support a lightsail interstellar project.

...

PS: No, I'm definately not betting on this being artificial in any way. I just find it interesting to ponder.