Suggestion for Mun/Minmus RT relay network?

[ROXunreal]

So with my Kerbin network complete, moving on to this. Since I'm all for tiny and cheap satellites, I'm wondering if it's enough to have one Communotron 16 and one Comms DTS-M1 per satellite? Will an omni antenna automatically pick up (assuming the satellite is within range) for example, an unmanned rover on the surface of the Mun which itself has an omni? And will the dish from the satellite automatically pick up the relay satellites around Kerbin if it is pointed at Kerbin and the satellites are within the cone? Or do I need more antennas on the Mun satellite(s) that are connected directly to specific satellites around Kerbin? Basically I'm avoiding having two DTS-M1's on one satellite because the satellite is really small and there is no way to aesthetically attach more than one of these on it.

The second question is whether I should put three satellites in Mun orbit or two satellites in Kerbin orbit leading and trailing the Mun, with the second option I imagine there would be an impassable no-signal line on the far side of the Mun.

Edited November 3, 2015 by ROXunreal

[FancyMouse]

DTS-M1 has a large cone angle so pointing to planet is good enough. 1 omni + 1 dish per satellite is exactly my setup.

[Alshain]

It depends on your needs. The most basic network isn't around the Mun itself. Place a relay satellite just in front of the Mun in it's own orbital period, and another just behind it orbiting Kerbin. This does have some very small blind spots along the equator if landed, but should cover everything in orbit and most things landed except at 4 positions, 2 at the poles and 2 small longitudinal areas at the horizon. The blind spot on the back side of the Mun will be slightly larger due to the natural curve of your orbit.

Since it is in the same orbital period of the Mun itself, the Mun can never catch it and it's about as close as you can get to a Lagrange point in KSP. You are going to want Communotron 32's and DTS-M1s to do this.

(Communotron 16's will just barely reach the surface but may leave more gaps in orbit and require perfection in your position)

Edited November 3, 2015 by Alshain

[Stone Blue]

Yeah, either do what Alshain states above, with 2 relays, one in front, and one behind each (moon)...

Or 3 sats, each with one Comm16 & DTS-M1, like you want...

For Mun, place them anywhere from 800Km-1100Km orbit, and they will have close to 100% coverage to just outside Mun's SOI... For similar coverage around Minmus, orbit them anywhere from 1100Km-1300Km...

https://ryohpops.github.io/kspRemoteTechPlanner/#/planner

Edited November 3, 2015 by Stone Blue

[ROXunreal]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll try the 3-satellite Mun orbit, because of Communotron 16 range and a bit better overall coverage. For Minmus I'll need a bigger dish as just beyond it the DTS lacks range. Later I may add a fourth satellite in polar orbit to have non-permanent signal on the poles.

[Alshain]

I forgot to answer the actual questions, sorry bout that.

I'm wondering if it's enough to have one Communotron 16 and one Comms DTS-M1 per satellite?

Yes, a 3 Satellite configuration around the Mun and Minmus with that setup will work fine and cover everything but the extreme poles while landed.

Will an omni antenna automatically pick up (assuming the satellite is within range) for example, an unmanned rover on the surface of the Mun which itself has an omni?

Yes, depending on your RT configuration, this assumes they are both in range of each other (in the case of the Mun and Minmus, it is hard not to be, but if the rover has a weaker antenna than the satellite, it may not work with default RT configuration). If both have the same antenna, then if one is in range, the other is too and they will connect.

And will the dish from the satellite automatically pick up the relay satellites around Kerbin if it is pointed at Kerbin and the satellites are within the cone?

Yes. As long as the cone is wide enough to encompass their orbit (The DTS-M1 will be, but this distinction is important at greater distances, the big dishes going to Eve or Duna will not encompass their orbit because the planets are too close).

Or do I need more antennas on the Mun satellite(s) that are connected directly to specific satellites around Kerbin?

Nope, not necessary. Even with a 3 satellite configuration you only need 2 of them to have the DTS-M1, the 3rd needs nothing but an Omni. If the network is well configured, it will be impossible for 2 satellites to be behind the Mun.

Basically I'm avoiding having two DTS-M1's on one satellite because the satellite is really small and there is no way to aesthetically attach more than one of these on it.

Well, the good news is there is no need to do this.

The second question is whether I should put three satellites in Mun orbit or two satellites in Kerbin orbit leading and trailing the Mun, with the second option I imagine there would be an impassable no-signal line on the far side of the Mun.

I listed the problems to that earlier, it's up to you.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll try the 3-satellite Mun orbit, because of Communotron 16 range and a bit better overall coverage. For Minmus I'll need a bigger dish as just beyond it the DTS lacks range. Later I may add a fourth satellite in polar orbit to have non-permanent signal on the poles.

The DTS should reach from Minmus just fine. You only need bigger for craft going further out. There comes a point where planetary dishes have too small a cone and if you need to do correction burns near Kerbin but outside it's SOI then you need a bigger dish. I usually manage to get my maneuvers just right so I don't need any burns outside of a planetary SOI but that takes a bit of work and it's a lot harder to do when going to inclined planets like Eeloo and Moho.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Alshain

[Stone Blue]

Quote Originally Posted by ROXunreal View Post

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll try the 3-satellite Mun orbit, because of Communotron 16 range and a bit better overall coverage. For Minmus I'll need a bigger dish as just beyond it the DTS lacks range. Later I may add a fourth satellite in polar orbit to have non-permanent signal on the poles.

The DTS should reach from Minmus just fine. You only need bigger for craft going further out. There comes a point where planetary dishes have too small a cone and if you need to do correction burns near Kerbin but outside it's SOI then you need a bigger dish. I usually manage to get my maneuvers just right so I don't need any burns outside of a planetary SOI but that takes a bit of work and it's a lot harder to do when going to inclined planets like Eeloo and Moho.

I agree...The DTS has a 50Mm range...Minmus orbit is roughly 47Mm...So the DTS will be plenty...

I will add that I dont really see the point of adding larger, longer range dishes to a Mun or Minus SOI...They would only extend past Kerbin inner-SOI roughly 1/2 the time, and when you start talking Gm range dishes, the 50Mm extra reach from Minmus outward, vs Kerbin outward, is almost negligible... So I think I would keep the Kerbin (moons) networks simple, and only for direct comms from each (moon's) SOI to Kerbin only; NOT as part of interplanetary relays... For farther outside Kerbin SOI, thats where I guess I would put my large, interplanetary comms in either full polar, or highly inclined orbit around Kerbin...

[Alshain]

NOT as part of interplanetary relays... For farther outside Kerbin SOI, thats where I guess I would put my large, interplanetary comms in either full polar, or highly inclined orbit around Kerbin...

Alternatively, your interplanetary satellites can be in a distant orbit around Kerbol with a single dish going back to your HKO network. Then you only need 2 of them and it would be almost impervious to obstruction by the sun. You don't want to go to that trouble till you can build one with enough dishes for every single planet. Like the above Mun network, this would require they be in the same orbital period as Kerbin.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Alshain