Fable of the week: "The Flea and the Parachute"

[wossname]

Once upon a time there was an enthusiastic rocket builder that wanted nothing more out of life than to have a VAB that didn't insist on putting engines and parachutes in the same stage.

Our hero waited and waited for a new release of KSP and his wails of anguish went unheeded by the Almighty Squad with 1.0.5.

The sad engineer was doomed to spend about 1% of his entire KSP playing time in the lonely, gloomy screen of VAB revertment. If you listen carefully on a dark night, you may hear his mournful cries of despair over the sound of emergency fire crews dousing the violent inferno engulfing the launchpad.

Edited November 11, 2015 by wossname

[LostOblivion]

I laughed.

[Col_Jessep]

It even gives you a warning in the Engineer's Report but I assume there is a drinking contest after each patch at Squad. One tequila for every player with more than 1000h clocked who forgets to put the chutes in their own stage. Why do you think they ask you if they can "anonymously" track your game progress?

[Johnny Wishbone]

Given the massive re-write to the staging system in 1.1, there is still hope that this particular thorn will get clipped off the stem and prick you no more.

[manaiaK]

I have a suspicion that this is deliberate, to teach you about the staging system. I've noticed that as I launch more vessels and/or acquire more parts, the VAB gets better at putting them in the right stages.

I like the fable though. More, please!

[Alshain]

I have a suspicion that this is deliberate, to teach you about the staging system. I've noticed that as I launch more vessels and/or acquire more parts, the VAB gets better at putting them in the right stages.

I like the fable though. More, please!

That's insane, they wouldn't annoy the entire player base just to teach beginners a lesson... oh wait, 50% throttle. (At least we can change that one now)

[KerikBalm]

Well... I've built things that have parachutes on the first stage intentionally... but they are always payloads that get stuck on something else, or designed so that action groups are used to launch the thing

- like an Eve lander, lifted by a spaceplane. The spaceplane's engines are controlled by action group, a docking port is used to release the lander... and the first thing the craft needs to do in its staging sequence is deploy parachutes to land, firing engines through staging to ascend happens later.

I don't have a problem with this.

Check it before launching... the staging rules don't change, and they are predictable...

[monophonic]

Oh, yeah...

I dabbled with a new career last night. So I took a Mk1 pod and added a parachute, which of course went to the only stage so far. I did remember this issue, and though I would be clever about it this time. So I clicked on the small plus button to create an empty stage before the parachute one, then grabbed a Flea and put it under the pod.

Guess which stage the Flea went into?

[obsidian_x]

... oh wait, 50% throttle. (At least we can change that one now)

Whaaaattt??? I must have missed that in the release notes. Please enlighten me oh wise one.

[Thorbard]

I can't help but think this is the intended behavior. Stages need to be separated by something to be recognised. What I can't understand is why the engines don't end up in the same stage as the decouplers.

Whaaaattt??? I must have missed that in the release notes. Please enlighten me oh wise one.

Also this! How?

[Deutherius]

What I can't understand is why the engines don't end up in the same stage as the decouplers.

Because generally you do not want to fire the next stage engines until after the engine bells have cleared the interstage fairing. Bad stuff could and would happen. In real life, that is.

[Frybert]

This kind of goes with launch clamps getting their own stage right below everything else (or being put up in the same stage as the parachutes). I've been playing KSP for 3+ years and it still gets me.

[Hcube]

This kind of goes with launch clamps getting their own stage right below everything else (or being put up in the same stage as the parachutes). I've been playing KSP for 3+ years and it still gets me.

This. I could understand the engines in first stage and clamps in 2nd, to have ignition then liftoff, but clamps before the engines ? Launchpad annihilated everytime you launch a big rocket

[Coyote27]

I have hopes myself that parachutes will be taken off of staging entirely and activated by a hotkey or button the way brakes and lights are. It just makes a lot more sense to me.

[Fluburtur]

That would be good but what if you can to deploy your parachutes in a certain order? Like drogue and then normal ones?

[Coyote27]

Hit once for drogues, again for normal ones. If there's only normals, they go on the first press. I can't think of any reason why you'd want normal chutes deployed *before* drogue chutes, so that shouldn't be an issue.

[Choctofliatrio]

[quote name='Coyote27']Hit once for drogues, again for normal ones. If there's only normals, they go on the first press. I can't think of any reason why you'd want normal chutes deployed *before* drogue chutes, so that shouldn't be an issue.[/QUOTE]

That's a good idea.

The staging system isn't really logical. It goes more off what you put last than what would make sense.

It can't be difficult to code for the program to assume parachutes are on the last stage, parachutes and engines aren't on the same stage, launch clamps aren't first stage, etc.

[jhousen]

[quote name='Deutherius']Because generally you do not want to fire the next stage engines until [I]after[/I] the engine bells have cleared the interstage fairing. Bad stuff could and would happen. In real life, that is.[/QUOTE]
unless you're Russian... hot staging, anyone

[SpaceNomad]

What bothers me even more about staging is that after you got everything right and then notice you need to insert a tank or so, after stripping off and re-attaching the lower stages, they'll mess up again. Always! :mad:

I could swear that in 0.90 they remembered the staging before the detachment and restored it after the re-attachment. Or was I just dreaming?