Kerbal Space Center Ultimate Race

[RussaX]

Welcome to KSC untimate race challenge!

Objective is to build the fastest car and make the fastest lap as you can!

Rules:

1. Car Regulation

1.1 Minimum car weight is 3t.

1.2 Car has to have four TR-2L wheels (wheels can be electric powered and all 4 of them can steer)

1.3 You are allowed to use one FL-R10 RCS fuel tank with 80 units of fuel.

1.4 You can use any number of RCS thrusters.

1.5 You are not allowed to use any other thrust than electric motors from wheels and rcs thrusters.

1.6 You can use wings but you must not control them.

1.7 You can use any command pod.

2. Race Regulation

2.1 Track is recorded with persistent trails plugin and it goes clockwise.

2.2 You have to make start screenshot starting from the marked start and finish screenshot when crossing the line.

2.3 On the start car has to be stationary.

2.4 Don't go off the track with your center mass of the car ( you can use sidewalks as a kerbs like in image)

2.5 You have to record your lap with persistent trails and make screenshot from the air after you finish the race.

2.6 Have fun!

Persistent trails plugin can be downloaded here and toolbar plugin to support persistent trails can be downloaded from here

Track download: - here

[RussaX]

First shots of my car. I am doing 40 seconds laptime but still looking to improve design and driving

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[RussaX]

Here is my entry- 39 seconds lap. With this car it is possible to make 2 seconds faster laptime.

Further design and riding improvements could improve probably a lot.

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[littlebuddy0]

Here is my try at 77s lap

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[RussaX]

Nice try littlebuddy0. TR-2L wheels offer a great grip so it is important to have a good balance for fast cornering.

[Overland]

Its a bit...limiting if only 4 wheels? Theres been a few of these over the years..always fun but not so tightly controlled

[Azimech]

This will be an interesting challenge after 1.1 has arrived.

[vat21s]

I may give it a shot.

[RussaX]

[quote name='Azimech']This will be an interesting challenge after 1.1 has arrived.[/QUOTE]

Yeah there will be some changes about wheels and traction so it will be interesting to see. Does anyone know when the update should occur?
This is fun challenge to see some designs and prepare for the next one. I have been speaking with Kyrian a little bit so maybe Formula K championship gets alive again.

[Azimech]

When it's ready ;-)

When multiplayer arrives, I'd like to have my own racing team. Let some people drive while I build the cars.

[RussaX]

[quote name='Azimech']When it's ready ;-)

When multiplayer arrives, I'd like to have my own racing team. Let some people drive while I build the cars.[/QUOTE]

Nice creations on kerbalx. Multiplayer would be awesome for many things but I am not sure how warping will be synced.
I have been working and testing a lot designs and rules for championship so base is ready. Now I hope that update arrive soon so we will see what happens next.

[GROOV3ST3R]

Here we go again... xD

I do prefer the regular rover wheels to be honest, they have more in terms of actual suspension and are MUCH smoother than the MK2's. There's reasons why we limited Kyrian GP to using them. Other than that, 3 tons is a bit much :P my old racing design barely pushed 1 tonne dry.

I'll give it a crack though. Edited November 23, 2015 by GROOV3ST3R

[RussaX]

[quote name='GROOV3ST3R']Here we go again... xD

I do prefer the regular rover wheels to be honest, they have more in terms of actual suspension and are MUCH smoother than the MK2's. There's reasons why we limited Kyrian GP to using them. Other than that, 3 tons is a bit much :P my old racing design barely pushed 1 tonne dry.

I'll give it a crack though.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I was looking a lot about designs so I wanted something a bit more challenging. Since M1 has some grip issues and strange steering I have chosen TR-2L which offer good grip and fast responsiveness (responsivness can be simply edited with car design) (we will have new wheels in 1.1v so it will be interesting) I can simply limit car width so you can't use very wide cars to keep stability and go without wings for no drag. Key will be to make well balanced and stable car for cornering. With more heavy cars there will be also more fuel and more complexity and creativity with designs (like a real formula k). With all of that a lot of parts can be used so cars won't look all the same. I think this will add more strategy into play. Seated driver will ride car.

But sure I would like to hear what do you think about that. Edited November 23, 2015 by RussaX

[GROOV3ST3R]

Yay for seated drivers :3

I think ultimately lighter cars mean faster lap times and more challenging competition in terms of driving. I'd like to see how the new wheels will perform - and if they're better, we might just have to make the switch.
As for size limitations, I'd say you could just pick a MK3 cargo bay of desired length and state that vehicles must be able to drive in/out of the bay under their own power and must fit entirely inside of the cargo bay - i.e. no parts protruding outside the bay in any of the 6 directions.

That would very nicely take care of size limitations as everyone has that same cargo bay and it also forces people to think how they will use their wings and spoilers so that they fit inside of that box. Beyond that, the actual amount of wings and their placement is up to you/them to regulate/figure out (we spent too much time overly complicating all the rules and ended up a tad confusing).

(That would also allow you to make a cargo plane and fly the rover+crew to an off-site location i.e. dirt runway, mountain ranges, another island/continent or even ice caps or old KSC for a special stage).

As for design and creativity, we never had too many issues with crafts looking the same. Yes, people hear the word ''Formula'' and make an F1 car but we had some really nice and surprisingly fast submissions. Here's one of my most recent ultralight race cars, the Boxx Cart EVO.

[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/673/7VgvKD.png[/img]

Perfect for day races :P

I can always lay some ballast in to add the extra 2 tonnes and swap the wheels out or start from scratch. It's near enough a year old design now, a lot has changed. (screen Nov 28th 2014)

[Pds314]

3 tonnes minimum? Let's see.. 200 kg of wheels. 50 kg of pilot seat, 320 kg of RTG, 80 kg of lights, 370 kg of monoprop tank...

So what, do you expect us to devote 1980+ kg to structure and thrusters? Making a car that heavy is not easy. Also, it is worth mentioning that you could probably go all-out for a whole lap with 10 thrusters. Edited November 23, 2015 by Pds314

[RussaX]

[quote name='Pds314']3 tonnes minimum? Let's see.. 200 kg of wheels. 50 kg of pilot seat, 320 kg of RTG, 80 kg of lights, 370 kg of monoprop tank...

So what, do you expect us to devote 1980+ kg to structure and thrusters? Making a car that heavy is not easy. Also, it is worth mentioning that you could probably go all-out for a whole lap with 10 thrusters.[/QUOTE]

Then use 10 thrusters. :) In this challenge you can do it more easy without aerodyamic drag but for the championship this will be fixed with limited vehicle size.
Add some cool parts to add weight but keep your car balanced to stay on the track. :D

If we use TR-2L on less than 1t car you will flip it on the straight. Point of all of that is fast cars , challenge to build one and of course right strategy to drive and use fuel.

[GROOV3ST3R]

As it turned out, M1 wheels must have gotten nerfed or something because my racecar suddenly became slow as... :S

Here's the new one:
[spoiler=BOXX CART MK3]
[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/903/Bm780O.jpg[/img]
[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/908/VLgS8J.jpg[/img]
[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/903/zv0y1J.jpg[/img]
[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/903/qt7rnl.jpg[/img]
[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/903/K0Rp0R.jpg[/img]
[/spoiler]

I've added some lights and 1.5 tonnes of steel to the chassis as ballast. Measured with space engineer it weighs in at 3003 KG dry, unless i could shave off about 250kg if total weight includes RCS.
L2 wheels do seem a bit quicker now but still not what I'd hope for. I still think we should lower the mass criteria by at least 1 tonne as it took a silly amount of pocket I-beams to bring it up to 3t :S
6 RCS Thrusters go through the tank quite efficiently but still don't give me nearly as much boost as they used to.

Under it's own power and fully loaded it will do 22m/s with no RCS boost - curious to see what other people can get up to. I can't afford to lower my downforce any more as it's already getting a tad unstable in chicanes.

What are your views on use of RTGs? We didn't use to use any so I'm just using batteries and panels instead.

EDIT:
Still experimenting with wing angles and wheelbase, it's getting better now. My wing setup is much less aggressive, upping the top speed under wheel power to 22.4m/s. Edited November 24, 2015 by GROOV3ST3R

[Pds314]

[quote name='RussaX']If we use TR-2L on less than 1t car you will flip it on the straight. Point of all of that is fast cars , challenge to build one and of course right strategy to drive and use fuel.[/QUOTE]

Not if the car has a sufficiently low center of mass. I've made cars that could do 50 m/s at full turn of the front wheels. The TR-2L may have unlimited grip strength, but it only has a finite turn speed.

Whatever. I'll just add various items that are both useful and heavy.

[RussaX]

GROOV3ST3R I am using MechJeb Vessel info to measure mass. Mass is measured including all components. For the championship that will include 2 fuel tanks with fuel, seated kerbal in cage. Also we will have to make some crash tests to see if kerbal can survive. :D :confused:

Working on a test model with two FL-R10 RCS fuel tanks [spoiler=test model][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ADzPQgb.png[/IMG][/spoiler]

Cars definitely won't be any wider than this
[spoiler=Car width][img]http://i.imgur.com/5NATOpf.png[/img][/spoiler]

We will see about mass if we maybe lower it for 500kg. When v1.1 comes in I don't think it can make a big difference but just make it better.
My results won't count to make sure I am not making rules for myself. :) Edited November 24, 2015 by RussaX

[Guest]

I have a frame in mind to test out. If it's good I'll make an attempt

Very nice buggies Groov3st3r btw :D

[GROOV3ST3R]

[quote name='RevanCorana']I have a frame in mind to test out. If it's good I'll make an attempt

Very nice buggies Groov3st3r btw :D[/QUOTE]

Thanks :3
Cubic struts are brilliant for sculpting neat looking spaceframes and they weigh next to nothing :3

500kg would make a small difference but it would count ;) How do you count weight then? With RCS loaded or empty? Because that counts for a lot. I'll go and get mechjeb for 1.1 after it's released.

[RussaX]

[quote name='GROOV3ST3R']Thanks :3
Cubic struts are brilliant for sculpting neat looking spaceframes and they weigh next to nothing :3

500kg would make a small difference but it would count ;) How do you count weight then? With RCS loaded or empty? Because that counts for a lot. I'll go and get mechjeb for 1.1 after it's released.[/QUOTE]

I am using MechJeb because it is more precise. (1.000t)
Mass is counted like in total - car with full rcs tanks and seated kerbal. (2500kg total or 1766kg without fuel 640kg and kerbal 94kg).
Today I have spent few hours testing things and it is interesting. No kerbals were hurt today :wink:
I hope for 1.1 asap :)

Btw try to beat my laptime in this challenge so I can try to go faster.

[Jon144]

I have a question: Can you not use any stock wheels at all?

I might have a new fancy rotor/wheel design coming up.

[RussaX]

[quote name='Jon144']I have a question: Can you not use any stock wheels at all?

I might have a new fancy rotor/wheel design coming up.[/QUOTE]

Sure build something and show us. Also show which wheels do you use.
For championship I want it to be stock because of simplicity for everybody and to make it more fair. ksp 1.1 will have edited wheels so we start from there.

I am doing some laps with new test car
[spoiler=car][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/R3oZqIm.png[/IMG][/spoiler] Edited November 25, 2015 by RussaX

[GROOV3ST3R]

I'm trying to bring my car to 1.1 spec, it's bang on with weight but is actually slower than my old one for straight line speed?....

It's to do with more/larger parts that need shrouding and aerodynamics. So it only does 22m/s without boost (up to 25m/s due to L2 wheel derp). But 2 tanks and 10 thrusters will see it to nearly 46m/s or so - and make it damn near impossible to turn a corner without flipping.

1.1 can't come soon enough. I want proper handling wheels, badly.