Radiator in 1.05

[tranenturm]

Any word on how these are working in 1.05? I'm getting ready to build my first ISRU ship and I'd to be at least in the ball park for needed cooling. Edited November 20, 2015 by tranenturm

[maceemiller]

Ive found them to work perfectly for me. Certainly they dissipate heat fast on my ships.

[Snark]

[quote name='tranenturm']Any word on how these are working in 1.05? I'm getting ready to build my first ISRU ship and I'd to be at least in the ball park for needed cooling.[/QUOTE]

New for 1.0.5:

All radiators (both static and folding) can now do active refrigeration (i.e. suck heat out of things that are [I][U]cooler[/U][/I] than themselves). So they're a lot more effective now.

The static panels have also improved: it used to be that they only cooled the part that they were directly attached to, but now they also cool parts that are one link [I]away[/I] from them. Thus, for example, if you have a radial drill and a radiator that are mounted to the same part, the radiator can now cool the drill.

However, this improved functionality comes at a cost. All radiators now consume electricity while operating.

For the folding panels, this is simple: when you retract them, they stop cooling [I][U]and[/U][/I] they stop using electricity.

Unfortunately, for the static panels, there's no way to turn them off. They're running [I]all the time[/I], and drinking electricity [I]all the time[/I], regardless of whether there's actually anything to cool off or not. That's really annoying, there needs to be a way to turn these panels on and off. Fortunately, [URL="http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/139818"]there's a mod for that[/URL]. :)

For the immediate practical question of "I'm building a mining ship and need to know how much radiator I need," that I don't know, haven't gotten that far in 1.0.5 yet. So hopefully someone else can supply suggestions there.

[KerikBalm]

0.1 tons of folding radiator per drill, its that simple

[DancesWithSquirrels]

How much in the way of radiators is required for the new small ISRU?

[A_name]

I made an ISRU spaceplane in 1.0.5 that works fine, never overheats. I used 3 pairs of the smallest static radiators inside the cargo bay. I was also pleasantly surprised to see that they actually dissipate heat from the whole plane (I thought they would only dissipate heat from the ISRU unit they're attached to). Very useful to keep ascent and reentry heat in check!

[COLOR="silver"][SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE][/COLOR]

On second thought, maybe they don't dissipate heat from the whole plane:

[QUOTE] The static panels have also improved: it used to be that they only cooled the part that they were directly attached to, but now they also cool parts that are one link [I]away[/I] from them. Thus, for example, if you have a radial drill and a radiator that are mounted to the same part, the radiator can now cool the drill. [/QUOTE]

Snark, are you sure about this? I could have sworn that my radiators were cooling down my whole craft.

[Arugela]

[quote name='KerikBalm']0.1 tons of folding radiator per drill, its that simple[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure the drills use a different heat that is not attached to the normal heating system. They and the ISRU are not heating up that I know of in a way that warms other things(Although that would be a nice effect assuming it's realistic. I don't know how much heat that should be.) They are heating up internally with a different vallue and need to gain heat to be 100% efficiency. It's like getting an engine warm to be at max performance. The numbers for it are displayed in their info when you right click as you use them. You need to to gain max heat to be 100% efficiency. If there is some effect of radiators on drills and ISRUs I would love to know what it is. It would be interesting. I have yet to figure it out personally.

[A_name]

[quote name='A_name']I made an ISRU spaceplane in 1.0.5 that works fine, never overheats. I used 3 pairs of the smallest static radiators inside the cargo bay. I was also pleasantly surprised to see that they actually dissipate heat from the whole plane (I thought they would only dissipate heat from the ISRU unit they're attached to). Very useful to keep ascent and reentry heat in check!

[COLOR=silver][SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE][/COLOR]

On second thought, maybe they don't dissipate heat from the whole plane:



Snark, are you sure about this? I could have sworn that my radiators were cooling down my whole craft.[/QUOTE]

So I ran a little test. I flew my spaceplane to orbit and turned on the temperature overlay to monitor my heat. As expected, lots of heat, shown in yellow on the overlay, accumulated on the cockpit, air intakes and wings, i.e. the leading edge of the craft. Sadly I was stupid and didn't get a pic of this, but you can take my word for it, I wouldn't lie to you guys. ;)

Once in space, the yellow started to dissipate from all around the plane while the radiators (the smallest static kind) started to get yellow themselves. [URL="http://i.imgur.com/L0rw0Ap.png"]Here I am just beginning my circularization burn[/URL]. As you can see, the yellow is practically all gone from the plane and has gotten to the radiators.

During the circulariztion burn, as expected, the nukes started to get hot and thus yellower. [URL="http://i.imgur.com/1ELNTYg.png"]What to you know, the radiators start getting hotter too. Now they're even showing temp gauges.[/URL] This leads me to believe they were absorbing the heat from the nukes as it was being generated.

I think this test suggests that radiators can somehow pull heat from all over your craft and are not limited to 2 parts away, given the radiators were attached to a payload inside the cargo bay. Maybe this can be explained by parts transferring heat form one to another in a chain until it finds its way to the radiators. [I]Who knows![/I] (Scott Manley Voice)

Further testing is probably needed, but it's something to go on.

Cheers!

[Jakalth]

For the small drill, I actually attach the drill onto a small surface mount(not the folding ones) radiator. Placed the radiator first, then attached the drill onto the outside of it. This probably wasn't needed... Back too the point. The small drill runs at 500K(100% efficiency) constantly while it is running now. Without the radiator it would overheat. But this is as much as I've gotten tested so far. Haven't gotten the isru tested yet so no clue what it prefers for cooling yet...

[Claw]

If you open the right-click info in the editor, it will show you thermal rates. The drills will show their required cooling, and the radiators will show how much they can cool. Actual cooling will vary a bit based on where you are, but it's a pretty good start.

Cheers,
~Claw

[Streetwind]

[quote name='A_name']I think this test suggests that radiators can somehow pull heat from all over your craft and are not limited to 2 parts away, given the radiators were attached to a payload inside the cargo bay. Maybe this can be explained by parts transferring heat form one to another in a chain until it finds its way to the radiators. [I]Who knows![/I] (Scott Manley Voice) [/QUOTE]

It's almost definitely conduction at work. If you look into the radiator panels' config files, you'll see that they actually have a maxHops=2 entry that the folding radiators don't have (i.e. those are not limited by distance from the part).

An easy way to test this:
- Get the mod that Snark linked, so you can turn radiator panels on and off
- Also get HyperEdit
- Build a ship with command pod -> 10 fuel tanks -> LV-N
- Attach one radiator panel to the command pod, and one to the tank immediately next to the LV-N
- Attach one folding radiator to the command pod
- HyperEdit this into orbit
- Use the Alt+F12 menu to activate display of thermal info in rightclick menus


Now, turn off the radiator panel next to the LV-N, and start a nice long burn. Only the radiator panel on the command pod is active now. Observe what it does in its rightclick menu. Also rightclick the various tanks along the length of the vessel, and the LV-N itself, to see its heat status and the conductive flux values. What you should see is that the rear of the vessel heats up, and that there is a temperature gradient developing along the stack of tanks. The radiator panel at the command pod will be largely idle. If you then activate the folding radiator on the command pod, you will see that despite being in the same location as the panel, it immediately starts gobbling up large amounts of heat.

Now revert to launch, and HyperEdit it back up again in order to achieve the same starting condition. (Verify that this is true!) Now turn off the radiator on the command pod, leaving the one next to the LV-N active. Start the burn, and observe how the heat state of the vessel develops differently from before.

If you see a difference between test 1 and 2, as I described, then there is indeed a limited range to the panels. If you see a behavior that does not match my description, then there is probably a bug and you should report it! ;)

[tranenturm]

Thanks all. I saw the thermal numbers in the VAB, but I didn't know if they operated with simple addition and subtraction or if something more complicated was going on. There's also some sort of 4x that makes no sense. I don't have the game handy, but when I do I'll post again with something more specific.

[Streetwind]

The 4x thing is simply indicating that the radiator stops cooling parts when it is 4x the temperature of that part.

For example, if a part has a temperature of 400 K, then a radiator with a temperature of 1500 K will attempt to take more heat from it, but a radiator with a temperature of 1620 K will not.