Delta IV Man Rating

[mythic_fci]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I don't see why there's a need to wait until SLS is done when we already have a perfecty good launcher for putting Orion into LEO - the Delta IV? A Delta IV with 1 CBC and 4 GEM-90 strap-on boosters should be able to lift Orion to LEO or to the ISS for flight testing; plus, it could launch commercial vehicles like the Dream Chaser. Finally, it's not like it would take a lot to put everything together - some common Atlas V and Delta IV hardware and software are already undergoing changes for possible human-rating, and the Centaur-Shuttle's technology could be reused to human-rate the Centaur used on the Delta-IV. At most, I'd guess conservatively that we could put someone into space on Orion by 2017-2020 on a Delta IV instead of waiting for SLS to be completed.

 

-FCI

[Scotius]

But there is no push for pressing Orion into service ahead of the schedule. And Dragon is from the get-go built to work with Falcon 9 \ Falcon Heavy - there is no need to refit it to Delta IV.

[SuperFastJellyfish]

Orion is designed for beyond LEO missions.  Simple as that.

[PB666]

What Scotius said. Basically they are still in the technology testing and vetting phase, and because is deals with human life support, these guys are going to take their good sweet time.

This is more the consequence of the Challenger/Columbia disasters than anything else.

[fredinno]

1 hour ago, Scotius said:

But there is no push for pressing Orion into service ahead of the schedule. And Dragon is from the get-go built to work with Falcon 9 \ Falcon Heavy - there is no need to refit it to Delta IV.

But there may be a want to make Orion use Constellation's 1.5 Infrastructure- it has its benefits. If so, it's better to spend a little more money to put it on a reusable Falcon Heavy- after all, Delta is a dying rocket brand.

[Nibb31]

It's not trivial. Human rating is mostly about recertifying every component of the rocket. Certification is one of the biggest activities in aerospace engineering, and although some see it as unnecessary paperwork, it is vital to insure that everything is up to standards.

On the pure engineering side, it means more instrumentation, different flight profiles, more instrumentation and telemetry, launch abort systems, crew access and egress systems, and redesigned pad operations. And probably lots of other stuff that I haven't thought of.

It's certainly lot easy, and not something that you want to go through for just a handful of launches.

 

[fredinno]

Will it? SLS/ORION will probably launch to the 2040s to 50s (at least it is supposed to), and Shuttle (which costs only $100 million less than SLS, if we take NASA's word for it ) launched an average of 5 missions a year post- Challenger. The infrastructure is probably one of the main limiting factors for SLS launches though, as LC-39B can only support a maximum of 2-3 launches a year (again, according to NASA). If we assume only 2 of those 3 SLS missions per year use Orion, that means 48 missions (if we assume SLS/Orion dies in 2045- it may actually take longer, if we have a permanent piece of infrastructure in Deep Space that needs to be serviced (like a Moon Base). Not exactly a handful.

[Motokid600]

A Delta IV can't put Orion into low lunar orbit afaic.

[fredinno]

22 minutes ago, Motokid600 said:

A Delta IV can't put Orion into low lunar orbit afaic.

But Delta IV and Falcon Heavy can put one into LEO.

[cubinator]

Orion is designed for deep-space exploration, thus it must be tested in deep space with a large rocket like SLS. 

[Bill Phil]

Seems like it would be a bit late to man-rate it.

Not only that, but DIV is already very expensive. Man rating would be quite a bit more costly.

 

And there's Vulcan on the way, too.

Also, Orion is BLEO, and is thus very heavy.

[fredinno]

6 minutes ago, cubinator said:

Orion is designed for deep-space exploration, thus it must be tested in deep space with a large rocket like SLS. 

It can use 1.5 launch infrastructure like Constellation.

[Motokid600]

1 hour ago, fredinno said:

But Delta IV and Falcon Heavy can put one into LEO.

This new quote system enrages me. I'm a big boy I can type

Quote

myself I don't need an overly complex system to do it for me thank you very much. >.< new forums suck.

Anyway... Are they really proposing launching the Orion alone on an SLS in an actual mission? For testing I could understand. But as far as actual missions go surely the Orion will never fly alone on the SLS. It will always be paired with a payload will it not? Like a lander.

What the heck is that?!

... And wth I can't just delete a quote? What is this?! Is this our new "forum"? 

Edited December 1, 2015 by Motokid600

[Bill Phil]

1 hour ago, fredinno said:

It can use 1.5 launch infrastructure like Constellation.

Can you elaborate here some, Fredinno?

 

Do you mean one launches and then an upper stage is launched later?

 

Maybe provide some particular examples of LVs. DIV and SLS?

 

Can you explain the process for Orion in more detail?

Edited December 1, 2015 by Bill Phil

[BetaguyGZT]

Uh-oh ... what's this? *sniffs the air* .... ahh yes, that's the "neurons operating at nominal efficiency" smell.  Space, the Sciences, and Engineering are my three favourite things in the world.

I knew I'd find a healthy brain-pool here.  

[fredinno]

2 hours ago, Bill Phil said:

Can you elaborate here some, Fredinno?

 

Do you mean one launches and then an upper stage is launched later?

 

Maybe provide some particular examples of LVs. DIV and SLS?

 

Can you explain the process for Orion in more detail?

A 1.5 launch infrasturcture is bascially a 2-launch infrastructure, but where one rocket is much smaller than the other- NASA used it to describe the Constellation Moon Mission Architecture, since for some reason, they didn't want to say that they were actually using 2 launches. B/C reasons.

For example, SLS Block IB would launch first, carrying the transfer stage  and lander for a Moon mission, then a (Reusable) Falcon 9 Heavy, with the actual Orion.

Edited December 1, 2015 by fredinno