Is this alternate solar system possible?

[fredinno]

24 minutes ago, Flybuild said:

More planets. Maby around nibiru, have a full on solar system, And perhaps put it on the outer edge of the oort cloud, as to prevent as much disturbance, Also doing this would allow it to have its own mini asteroid belt of captured oort cloud objects, Perhapse give it a 7 planet system, and have one of the planets have a moon of a moon.

Nibiru isn't really part of the storyline yet- its exoplanets have also not yet been discovered.

[Flybuild]

25 minutes ago, fredinno said:

Nibiru isn't really part of the storyline yet- its exoplanets have also not yet been discovered.

Oh, But please do that when they are discovered.

[ChrisSpace]

Maybe- only problem is that something like that will still not be stable for geological timescales.

It doesn't have to be.

Then place a Aurora within an inclined orbit that is somewhat eccentric, which is more characteristic of captured bodies. It would, eventually however, collide with Earth or the Moon, like Phobos IRL. However, another problem is that it'd experience greater tidal heating here- possibly vaporizing its underground ices. A good solution to this would be a small, metallic asteroid with lots of valuable minerals- like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3554_Amun   3554 Amun. Not really good for a refueling base, but great to kickstart asteroid mining!

Would this moon be tidally locked to Earth? I assume so.

What's the point? If you need to get into space, things like CH4/LOX are better- Oil needs complex refining processes, and it primarily used on Earth because those RP-1 rocket systems are cheaper. Not to mention reusable engines would need to face a more severe coking problem. Or that it's completely uneconomical to send oil from Venus to Earth from it's inclined orbit (I'm making its orbit much more inclined to put it slightly closer to Earth than IRL, from 0.72 AU to 0.8 AU, giving it more of a chance to be habitable.)

Oh, don't worry about why I need a desert planet with oil, I just need to know if I can have a desert planet with oil.

Also, oil and natural gas would be near-impossible to form on a planet w/o much water. Even if it was in the habitable zone earlier, it would not have enough water to form oil and natural gas (or fossil fuels for that matter, as coal forms in wetlands, needing lots of water.)

Okay, is there any solution to this?

Also, please update the 1st post with things we have finally established. It seems to still not be updated, and I need it to help finish the rest of the solar system.

I will when I have time.

Oh, But please do that when they are discovered.

I'm open to any suggestions with Nibiru.

[ChrisSpace]

Front post has been edited again

[fredinno]

"Okay, is there any solution to this?"

Water, which is not present in Venus too much.

Venus, technically would likely have some fossil fuels, but it would really be only very small amounts- like the Canadian Arctic. Nothing like the comparatively massive reserves of Earth.

On the other hand, so would Mars, (in fact, it would be somewhat more, due to more water, despite being colder)

I'm also thinking of giving Venus an unbreathable low-O2 atmosphere of 17 percent oxygen- there's not really enough water for lots of plant life. Mars would also have a similar problem with its cold. However, such a low O2 atmosphere would not support animal life, so it may actually be better to have nearly no animal life- the consumption of O2 and production would likely be balanced on Venus due to its lack of plants. This would, also, however, prevent intelligent life from living here. Mars would have less of a problem, but it would still have difficulty supporting more complex life due to a lack of O2 available. This would leave us with 2, rather than 3 extra habitable planets with intelligent life. Sucks.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_cycle

 

"Would this moon be tidally locked to Earth? I assume so."

Yes, it would be.

 

"I'm open to any suggestions with Nibiru."

Is it supposed to have habitable planets? If so, then the star is likely only to support life if it is an orange dwarf, yellow dwarf, or white dwarf, as red dwarfs and below will likely have planets in the habitable zone tidally locked, (they are too close to their star), so one side will boil, while the other freezes. Anything bigger than white dwarf would likely not have enough time for even relatively simple life to gain a foothold, before the habitable zone moves outwards. Red Dwarfs still have the possibility of life, thankfully, but it just has more hurdles to be overcome (life would last forever, though, once it got a foothold- not red dwarfs have actually died yet.). Tidal locking also would be much less of a problem on the higher end of the red-dwarf size scale. Not to mention they're a good 73 Percent of the Milky Way.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habitability_of_red_dwarf_systems

 

I would recommend Nibiru to be an orange, or red dwarf Star, with a habitable planet named Kerbin, and Nibiru to be renamed Kerbol. Because reasons, that's why. 

[ChrisSpace]

24 minutes ago, fredinno said:

Water, which is not present in Venus too much.

Venus, technically would likely have some fossil fuels, but it would really be only very small amounts- like the Canadian Arctic. Nothing like the comparatively massive reserves of Earth.

On the other hand, so would Mars, (in fact, it would be somewhat more, due to more water, despite being colder)

Ah ----! Well, is there some oil-like valuable resource that Venus could have far more of than anywhere else?

26 minutes ago, fredinno said:

I'm also thinking of giving Venus an unbreathable low-O2 atmosphere of 17 percent oxygen

Well, that's still sorta breathable.

27 minutes ago, fredinno said:

Mars would also have a similar problem with its cold. However, such a low O2 atmosphere would not support animal life, so it may actually be better to have nearly no animal life- the consumption of O2 and production would likely be balanced on Venus due to its lack of plants. This would, also, however, prevent intelligent life from living here. Mars would have less of a problem, but it would still have difficulty supporting more complex life due to a lack of O2 available. This would leave us with 2, rather than 3 extra habitable planets with intelligent life. Sucks.

Perhaps the Venusian biosphere is more adapted to a lack of oxygen, so intelligent life can still evolve there? Also, I'm currently thinking about adding a fourth and fifth intelligent species to the solar system. More on that later.

28 minutes ago, fredinno said:

Yes, it would be.

Good. So long as it's orbit is above Geostationary, I can use that massively.

30 minutes ago, fredinno said:

Is it supposed to have habitable planets? If so, then the star is likely only to support life if it is an orange dwarf, yellow dwarf, or white dwarf, as red dwarfs and below will likely have planets in the habitable zone tidally locked, (they are too close to their star), so one side will boil, while the other freezes. Anything bigger than white dwarf would likely not have enough time for even relatively simple life to gain a foothold, before the habitable zone moves outwards. Red Dwarfs still have the possibility of life, thankfully, but it just has more hurdles to be overcome (life would last forever, though, once it got a foothold- not red dwarfs have actually died yet.). Tidal locking also would be much less of a problem on the higher end of the red-dwarf size scale.

My idea with Nibiru's habitable planet is that it is tidally locked, and most of civilization is focused in a 'habitable zone' between the stormy heated part and the outer ice wall. Kinda like this:

33 minutes ago, fredinno said:

I would recommend Nibiru to be an orange, or red dwarf Star, with a habitable planet named Kerbin, and Nibiru to be renamed Kerbol. Because reasons, that's why. 

I was actually planning to name the planet Fredinnus, but Kerbin sounds good as well.

[fredinno]

3 hours ago, ChrisSpace said:

Ah ----! Well, is there some oil-like valuable resource that Venus could have far more of than anywhere else?

Well, that's still sorta breathable.

Perhaps the Venusian biosphere is more adapted to a lack of oxygen, so intelligent life can still evolve there? Also, I'm currently thinking about adding a fourth and fifth intelligent species to the solar system. More on that later.

Good. So long as it's orbit is above Geostationary, I can use that massively.

My idea with Nibiru's habitable planet is that it is tidally locked, and most of civilization is focused in a 'habitable zone' between the stormy heated part and the outer ice wall. Kinda like this:

I was actually planning to name the planet Fredinnus, but Kerbin sounds good as well.

"Well, that's still sorta breathable"

No, that's way below breathable. That's why I decided to just get rid of all animal life anyways. Intelligent life might exist- it would have to from somewhere else, though (long-lost alien civilization in a ONeil Cyninder colony ship, whose civilization broke down long ago?) and bring its own food-producing plants (no real need for plants here to produce edible fruits or seeds to attract pollinators, as all the plants would have to evolve w/o them.

That would fix the lack of intelligent species problem, but only serves to strengthen the long-lost human civilization-that-collasped hypothesis.

 

 

"Ah ----! Well, is there some oil-like valuable resource that Venus could have far more of than anywhere else?"

 

Yes- the lack of water means a lack of tectonic plates (water lubricates tectonic plates), meaning areas like Tharsis on Mars can form very easily (though smaller, due to more gravity). This means Uranium-Thorium minerals (U-235 is about as rare as platinum on Earth, and though Thorium can be synthesized to U-233 for power plants, it's much more difficult to work with for bombs (power plants produce and use it quickly, compared to bombs) due to extra gamma radiation.) 

 

These areas would be also be great for Platinum-group metals- though they are mostly used to filter car exhaust, they can also be used, for example, to make a "Solid-Hydrogen Tank" produced when Palladium is exposed to Hydrogen (Palladum absorbs Hydrogen like a sponge). Currently, it's too expensive to be practical, but it could help fuel a green fuel cell car revolution (not to mention a higher-power alternative to batteries). That is, of course, providing you can provide enough Delta-V economically to compete against other potential sources.

 

TL;DR, Venus would be a good source to get Nuclear Weapon Fuel and to get Platinum-group metals for various high-tech uses.

 

I also think Mars should have the Tharsis Bulge removed, as it would have tectonic plates- Tharsis could not form in a planet with tectonics. The old Tharsis basic would be replaced with a flat mid-west like- flat land, with a mountain range on the westmost side- like IRL North America, except colder.

 

"My idea with Nibiru's habitable planet is that it is tidally locked, and most of civilization is focused in a 'habitable zone' between the stormy heated part and the outer ice wall."

Bad idea. Tidal locking tends to really screw up intelligent life, so I would just have it not tidally locked to its star. I was thinking of an intelligent life form living in the shallower (less than 400 m depth) depths of the continental shelf of a moon(Kerbin) (with a magnetosphere) in close proximity to a a turn-like gas giant (Jool) that is 70 Earths mass. And then, the oxygen cycle screwed me over real bad- the -16 Degrees dark side of Kerbin (being tidally locked, and to Jool, so it never faces Kerbol is devoid of plant life. This makes the planet unable to support animals, only plants.

 

I will post it anyways, as it might come in handy later for ideas.

This species is a sort of a hybrid between dolphins and octopi, and have multiple limbs. they are less intelligent than humans (less oxygen for use in the water), being more evolved, also their application of this intelligence is also more limited, due to the tides and their location in the ocean. They use their intelligence to manipulate objects, and build basic protective structures to help protect themselves from predators, along with ink and camouflage, as they are slower (due to their limbs). They also have long, large gills in their limbs (along with suction cups), and eat nearly everything they can get their hands on- they are omnivores, and are realtively high on the food chain. They also live much longer than Earth octipi, from less than 6 years to more than 20.

Though it was thought they were not intelligent like humans, closer examination of their behavour, along with dissections, have shown their brains are unexpectedly large, which they also use to survive predation from their few predators.

https://www.quora.com/What-would-it-take-for-aquatic-life-to-evolve-into-an-intelligent-technological-civilization-while-living-under-or-on-water

 

Jool would be a 'Warm Jupiter' in the outer edge of the habitable zone of Kerbol (which would be a red-orange dwarf 70 Percent of the Sun's mass) and would be tidally locked to its star. Kerbin would be tidally locked to Jool, and (like Laythe) have huge tides, but which are nowhere near as impressive. It's land life would be very limited due to the tidal waves (again) and lack of rain more inland from the oceans. Kerbin would also be tidally locked to Jool, and have its land mostly near the equator. This also limits the intelligent life forms' location on the planet. 

 

Jool would also have Vall (one of the outermost moons, also its KSP mass) and has a thin nitrogen-CO2 atmosphere and much weaker magnetic field (though still present) than Kerbin, meaning the atmosphere is being blown away (VERY slowly). It is much like the other planets in its system, composed primarily of silicates, but with a somewhat higher metallicity than the Solar System, indicating the system is younger than the Sun- 2 Billion years old. However, the moon does have a large impact basin that appears to have come relatively recently- large enough to generate a very slow spin (rather than being tidally locked).

 

Jool also has other small moons, including Pol and Bop, which are very similar to their KSP counterparts, though Pol is slightly more irregular than in KSP, and is located in an inclined, eccentric orbit bringing it closer to Jool than Kerbin. This means that it has periodic sulphuric volcanoes that erupt and resurface the moon at its perpasis. 

A probe sent to Bop also lost contact with Earth. Some conspiracy theorists believe the intelligent life from Kerbin came to Bop and disabled the probe, and NASA is covering it up. These supposed aliens are called "the Deep Space Kraken" by people who follow this conspiracy theory.

Jool also has "Trojan Asteroids" along with an "asteroid belt" covering much of the rest habitable zone.

 

The gold medal, however, would go to Eve, a Ammonia-rich planet in the ammonia habitable zone, with Ammonia based life. They live on Eve, which is deep blue due to the minerals dissoved in the ammonia. It lacks oxygen (or else the ammonia would burn) so its life, though getting energy from Kerbol, does not use photosynthesis (I couldn't find anything more about such plants, though.) Its plants are dark purple, to absorb as much of their star's red light as possible- making the planet look like Eve in KSP. It has animal life, but it is realatively simple (along with slow), as there is not enough energy to support greater complexity. It is not tidally locked to its star, enjoying Earth-like seasons, not to mention days. It would have a G-Force of 1.1 at the surface- a super-Earth, and a icy-Ceres-like moon-Dres- orbiting it. (It lacks valleys or Dres-troids, though)

Eve's ammonia rivers would cut huge canyons, much deeper than on Earth, due to being more reactive. It's ammonia ice would freeze from the bottom-up, meaning animal life in higher altitudes developed a form of hibernation to survive winters. This would also mean the polar latitudes (90 Degrees latitude to 60 Degrees lattiude) are uninhabitable, and covered by ices. The tropics (20 Degrees latitdue to the equator) would also lack habitability due to being much more humid- the simpler density scale of ammonia limiting life's extent.However, it's nights are warmer due to the ammonia.http://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/3090/what-would-an-ammonia-based-world-look-like

Eve has a water-ice surface, and a liquid water ocean beneath its surface. It most likely formed closer-in, then moved outwards during its formation, avoiding the intensely active 1st billion of Kerbol's lifetime.

 

Nibiru also has Eeloo, which is very near-identical to its KSP counterpart, but is smaller, with only 0.07 Gs at its surface, along with a partially frozen atmosphere. It is a dwarf planet.

 

Moho is almost identical to Vulcan (though with 0.24 Gs, making it slightly smaller), and lacks a "Mohole", like in KSP. Moho is also grey, like most objects in the solar system.

 

Finally, Gilly is a comet with a 100-year orbit around Kerbol (can you guess where the reference is from?) It is about as big as comet Hale-Bopp, but is a recent comet, like 67P, making it an important scientific destination.

 

There, you have the Kerbol System- that's not the end though.

 

Tylo is a rouge planet passing through the Oort Cloud. Its crust is built in layers, with the rocky crust the deepest below the surface, followed by liquid water, then water ice, then ammonia ice, then methane ice, then nitrogen ice (the frozen atmosphere). It is like its KSP counterpart, but much colder, and not gravitationally bound. A probe called MANN is being built to be sent here. Tylo is on a escape trajectory out of Sol, and is 0.8 Light Years away. It also has three small moons- Fredinnus, Silverstive, and Chirsnon, after its discoverers. They are tiny asteroid-like icy objects. (Is this ok?)

 

(The probes in the Kerbol System and Tylo require a sort of nuclear propulsion and power source, ultra-automation, and much better communication to get there. 'Now', in the sense made for these objects, assume these technologies and more are available. This is not really wholely realistic until at least 4 extra centuries (in my opinion), even with a faster development time.)

[ChrisSpace]

1 hour ago, fredinno said:

No, that's way below breathable. That's why I decided to just get rid of all animal life anyways. Intelligent life might exist- it would have to from somewhere else, though (long-lost alien civilization in a ONeil Cyninder colony ship, whose civilization broke down long ago?) and bring its own food-producing plants (no real need for plants here to produce edible fruits or seeds to attract pollinators, as all the plants would have to evolve w/o them.

17 percent oxygen is like 21 percent in an atmosphere of 0.8 atm. That's the same as being a bit over 3km above sea level. I know there are settlements in mountainy areas where people are constantly higher up. But yes, it wouldn't exactly be as nice to breathe in.

1 hour ago, fredinno said:

Yes- the lack of water means a lack of tectonic plates (water lubricates tectonic plates), meaning areas like Tharsis on Mars can form very easily (though smaller, due to more gravity). This means Uranium-Thorium minerals (U-235 is about as rare as platinum on Earth, and though Thorium can be synthesized to U-233 for power plants, it's much more difficult to work with for bombs (power plants produce and use it quickly, compared to bombs) due to extra gamma radiation.) 

So how would the Uranium/Thorium levels on Venus compare with elsewhere?

1 hour ago, fredinno said:

These areas would be also be great for Platinum-group metals- though they are mostly used to filter car exhaust, they can also be used, for example, to make a "Solid-Hydrogen Tank" produced when Palladium is exposed to Hydrogen (Palladum absorbs Hydrogen like a sponge). Currently, it's too expensive to be practical, but it could help fuel a green fuel cell car revolution (not to mention a higher-power alternative to batteries).

Again, how much more would Venus have than other planets?

1 hour ago, fredinno said:

I also think Mars should have the Tharsis Bulge removed, as it would have tectonic plates- Tharsis could not form in a planet with tectonics. The old Tharsis basic would be replaced with a flat mid-west like- flat land, with a mountain range on the westmost side- like IRL North America, except colder.

Okay. I suppose that solves a few problems.

1 hour ago, fredinno said:

Bad idea. Tidal locking tends to really screw up intelligent life, so I would just have it not tidally locked to its star. I was thinking of an intelligent life form living in the shallower (less than 400 m depth) depths of the continental shelf of a moon(Kerbin) (with a magnetosphere) in close proximity to a a turn-like gas giant (Jool) that is 70 Earths mass. And then, the oxygen cycle screwed me over real bad- the -16 Degrees dark side of Kerbin (being tidally locked, and to Jool, so it never faces Kerbol is devoid of plant life. This makes the planet unable to support animals, only plants.

Wait, how does a tidally locked moon have a permanently dark side? Are you saying the gas giant would 'get in the way'?

1 hour ago, fredinno said:

This species is a sort of a hybrid between dolphins and octopi, and have multiple limbs. they are less intelligent than humans (less oxygen for use in the water), being more evolved, also their application of this intelligence is also more limited, due to the tides and their location in the ocean. They use their intelligence to manipulate objects, and build basic protective structures to help protect themselves from predators, along with ink and camouflage, as they are slower (due to their limbs). They also have long, large gills in their limbs (along with suction cups), and eat nearly everything they can get their hands on- they are omnivores, and are realtively high on the food chain. They also live much longer than Earth octipi, from less than 6 years to more than 20.

Though it was thought they were not intelligent like humans, closer examination of their behavour, along with dissections, have shown their brains are unexpectedly large, which they also use to survive predation from their few predators.

I definitely can't do an aquatic species for Nibiru's planet/moon, but I was really wanting one for Laythe, so thanks!

1 hour ago, fredinno said:

Jool would be a 'Warm Jupiter' in the outer edge of the habitable zone of Kerbol (which would be a red-orange dwarf 70 Percent of the Sun's mass) and would be tidally locked to its star. Kerbin would be tidally locked to Jool, and (like Laythe) have huge tides, but which are nowhere near as impressive. It's land life would be very limited due to the tidal waves (again) and lack of rain more inland from the oceans. Kerbin would also be tidally locked to Jool, and have its land mostly near the equator. This also limits the intelligent life forms' location on the planet.

This sounds a lot like Jupiter and Laythe.

1 hour ago, fredinno said:

Jool would also have Vall (one of the outermost moons, also its KSP mass) and has a thin nitrogen-CO2 atmosphere and much weaker magnetic field (though still present) than Kerbin, meaning the atmosphere is being blown away (VERY slowly). It is much like the other planets in its system, composed primarily of silicates, but with a somewhat higher metallicity than the Solar System, indicating the system is younger than the Sun- 2 Billion years old. However, the moon does have a large impact basin that appears to have come relatively recently- large enough to generate a very slow spin (rather than being tidally locked).

So, add another rocky moon?

1 hour ago, fredinno said:

A probe sent to Bop also lost contact with Earth. Some conspiracy theorists believe the intelligent life from Kerbin came to Bop and disabled the probe, and NASA is covering it up. These supposed aliens are called "the Deep Space Kraken" by people who follow this conspiracy theory.

I'm definitely going to have a Kraken-like thing in the outer solar system, not sure what it should be.

1 hour ago, fredinno said:

The gold medal, however, would go to Eve, a Ammonia-rich planet in the ammonia habitable zone, with Ammonia based life. They live on Eve, which is deep blue due to the minerals dissoved in the ammonia. It lacks oxygen (or else the ammonia would burn) so its life, though getting energy from Kerbol, does not use photosynthesis (I couldn't find anything more about such plants, though.) Its plants are dark purple, to absorb as much of their star's red light as possible- making the planet look like Eve in KSP. It has animal life, but it is realatively simple (along with slow), as there is not enough energy to support greater complexity. It is not tidally locked to its star, enjoying Earth-like seasons, not to mention days. It would have a G-Force of 1.1 at the surface- a super-Earth, and a icy-Ceres-like moon-Dres- orbiting it. (It lacks valleys or Dres-troids, though)

Eve's ammonia rivers would cut huge canyons, much deeper than on Earth, due to being more reactive. It's ammonia ice would freeze from the bottom-up, meaning animal life in higher altitudes developed a form of hibernation to survive winters. This would also mean the polar latitudes (90 Degrees latitude to 60 Degrees lattiude) are uninhabitable, and covered by ices. The tropics (20 Degrees latitdue to the equator) would also lack habitability due to being much more humid- the simpler density scale of ammonia limiting life's extent.However, it's nights are warmer due to the ammonia.

Oh wow. I'm gonna have to do more research on Ammonia planets.

1 hour ago, fredinno said:

Eve has a water-ice surface, and a liquid water ocean beneath its surface. It most likely formed closer-in, then moved outwards during its formation, avoiding the intensely active 1st billion of Kerbol's lifetime.

 

Nibiru also has Eeloo, which is very near-identical to its KSP counterpart, but is smaller, with only 0.07 Gs at its surface, along with a partially frozen atmosphere. It is a dwarf planet.

 

Moho is almost identical to Vulcan (though with 0.24 Gs, making it slightly smaller), and lacks a "Mohole", like in KSP. Moho is also grey, like most objects in the solar system.

 

Finally, Gilly is a comet with a 100-year orbit around Kerbol (can you guess where the reference is from?) It is about as big as comet Hale-Bopp, but is a recent comet, like 67P, making it an important scientific destination.

 

There, you have the Kerbol System- that's not the end though.

 

Tylo is a rouge planet passing through the Oort Cloud. Its crust is built in layers, with the rocky crust the deepest below the surface, followed by liquid water, then water ice, then ammonia ice, then methane ice, then nitrogen ice (the frozen atmosphere). It is like its KSP counterpart, but much colder, and not gravitationally bound. A probe called MANN is being built to be sent here. Tylo is on a escape trajectory out of Sol, and is 0.8 Light Years away. It also has three small moons- Fredinnus, Silverstive, and Chirsnon, after its discoverers. They are tiny asteroid-like icy objects. (Is this ok?)

With Tylo, what exactly do you mean by 'layers'? Are you saying there are gaps of empty space between the layers? Or are you just saying that there are multiple 'crusts' layered on top of one another?

[fredinno]

"17 percent oxygen is like 21 percent in an atmosphere of 0.8 atm. That's the same as being a bit over 3km above sea level. I know there are settlements in mountainy areas where people are constantly higher up. But yes, it wouldn't exactly be as nice to breathe in."

OK? It really would not be able to support too much animal life- even at that lower level, animal life would still need more of an excess of O2 produced by plants, not consumed by the Earth (or plants themselves, for that matter)

 

"Again, how much more would Venus have than other planets?"

Well, a lot more than the other habitable planets. Probably also more than Minevera, despite it being larger and having more volcanism than Venus (which would also have large reseverves of Gold)- Minevera's merger of oceans eroding the land, and underwater volcanoes would also concentrate things like Silver, Titanium-Zicronium, Gold, and Rare Earths. Platinum Groups and Uranium would also be available in large amounts, though less than on Venus (but more than Earth). Of course this requires you to mine underwater.

 

Laythe would also have even more of these minerals concentrated, being highly volcanic and with massive tides causing massive erosion and sedimentation. Of course, it also requires you to survive the tides.

 

Mars would really not have any particularly large concentrations of minerals unusual to Earth. The concentrations of precious minerals may actually be lower, due to less volcanism from less heat in the mantle from a smaller planet to fuel it.

 

"With Tylo, what exactly do you mean by 'layers'? Are you saying there are gaps of empty space between the layers? Or are you just saying that there are multiple 'crusts' layered on top of one another?"

The latter. 

 

"I'm definitely going to have a Kraken-like thing in the outer solar system, not sure what it should be."

Why? The inclusion of the Deep Space Kraken was just a bit of a joke I put in.

 

"So, add another rocky moon?"

To do what? Cause Tylo's impact crater?

 

"I definitely can't do an aquatic species for Nibiru's planet/moon, but I was really wanting one for Laythe, so thanks!"

Well, Laythe would definitely have more energy available, in its deep volcanoes, but whether it would be ever enough to become intelligent is another question entirely. It would also have to live above 1000 M below the sea level, due to the fact that systems required for intelligent species won't work under such high pressures.

 

"Wait, how does a tidally locked moon have a permanently dark side? Are you saying the gas giant would 'get in the way'?" Actually, thinking about it again, it would not. Man the ships! The Kraken-octopi can live here! There's enough O2 for animal life to exist!!!!

 

So, screw whatever I said about the icy side of Kerbin, it has habitable seas, and it's teeming with life!

 

[RocketOuthouse]

As a Coloradan, I have absolutely no idea why you guys think 17% oxygen is a problem. It's still very comfortable for humans, and just takes a short period of acclimation for people not used to it.

Also, one way to prevent tidal locking to a red dwarf is to make the planet a double planet orbiting their own barycentre. However, I'm not sure if that would be stable or possible around that kind of star.

 

Edited December 23, 2015 by RocketOuthouse

[fredinno]

"Also, one way to prevent tidal locking to a red dwarf is to make the planet a double planet orbiting their own barycentre. However, I'm not sure if that would be stable or possible around that kind of star."

You want to avoid planetary binaries- those things are generally uncommon.

[RocketOuthouse]

25 minutes ago, fredinno said:

You want to avoid planetary binaries- those things are generally uncommon.

Sure, but not unthinkable either. Our own Earth-Moon are very close to being a double planet, and it's believed to be that way because of a collision. For his universe, the same could have happened to a much larger protoplanet that split closer down the middle. Even the collision itself would cause a spin that delays the tidal lock for a planet.

Edited December 23, 2015 by RocketOuthouse

[fredinno]

14 minutes ago, RocketOuthouse said:

Sure, but not unthinkable either. Our own Earth-Moon are very close to being a double planet, and it's believed to be that way because of a collision. For his universe, the same could have happened to a much larger protoplanet that split closer down the middle. Even the collision itself would cause a spin that delays the tidal lock for a planet.

They would actually be tidally locked to each other.

[RocketOuthouse]

11 minutes ago, fredinno said:

They would actually be tidally locked to each other.

And that's what I mean. With both tidally locked to each other rather than the star, and with both orbiting around a barycenter, this gives both planets the chance to be evenly cooked, rotisserie style.

[fredinno]

47 minutes ago, RocketOuthouse said:

And that's what I mean. With both tidally locked to each other rather than the star, and with both orbiting around a barycenter, this gives both planets the chance to be evenly cooked, rotisserie style.

And that's what I already did in a different, also more likely way, with Jool and Kerbin. Kerbin is tidally locked to Jool, as gas giant, allowing Kerbin to be "evenly cooked".

Edited December 23, 2015 by fredinno

[RocketOuthouse]

I'm just looking at this in a way that would allow a civilization to exist around Nibiru, rather than the probability of such a planetary system existing. A gas giant parent would work too, but that would present even more inhospitable conditions on top of a borderline red dwarf that will randomly shoot off extremely powerful flares.

So a double planet, while extremely rare, at least eliminates most other problems while keeping the red dwarf.

[fredinno]

3 hours ago, RocketOuthouse said:

I'm just looking at this in a way that would allow a civilization to exist around Nibiru, rather than the probability of such a planetary system existing. A gas giant parent would work too, but that would present even more inhospitable conditions on top of a borderline red dwarf that will randomly shoot off extremely powerful flares.

So a double planet, while extremely rare, at least eliminates most other problems while keeping the red dwarf.

A planet would need a internal heating producing a dynamo, producing a magnetic shield to protect life from the host star's radiation. A binary system would quickly tidally lock to each other, meaning there can be no extra heat generated due to an extra planetary object in the sky near you. A gas giant, on the other hand, takes much more energy to slow down. Also, gas giants do not emit radiation, merely capture them. Part of the reason Jupiter is so bad is because Io spews out energized particles that become ionizing radiation. Jool would lack this.

[fredinno]

On 12/6/2015 at 7:35 PM, ChrisSpace said:

So I have just started an alternate history project in which the solar system forms very differently from Our Time Line (OTL). What this results in is a very different 19th, 20th and 21st century as space colonization becomes available even to the European Imperial nations. In any case, before I start I just want to check that the alternate solar system I have designed is even possible, taking into account things like orbital physics and planetary climates. So, here's what I have so far:

Sol is the star in the center of the system. Can cause blindness when looked directly at for a long time. For simplicity, it has the same characteristics as in OTL.

Vulcan is the closest planet to the sun. Due to its closeness to the Sun, it is very hot. This was what led le Verrier to name it Vulcan, after the Roman god of fire and the forges. Vulcan is close enough to the sun for most of the planet to be molten. The proximity of the planet to the Sun exerts a lot of gravitational energy on Vulcan, making it tidally locked. Volcanoes and lava dot much the surface, and contribute to the heat of the surface. The volcanoes on the surface emit large amounts of Carbon Dioxide and Sulfur into the atmosphere of Vulcan. However, the Sun's powerful solar wind blows away much of the accumulated gases into space. This creates a very visible ‘tail’ behind Vulcan.

Mercury is nearly the same as in OTL, except its orbit is much less eccentric and the planet contains much higher quantities of valuable minerals.

Venus is the third planet from the sun, orbiting at a high inclination in resonance with Earth (avoiding gravitational interactions with it.) It has a magnetic field and a surface very different from OTL, covered largely with massive deserts and a few shallow lakes. The air is breathable, but the surface temperatures are so high that there are large areas that humans simply cannot survive in without cooling systems. Venus is also one of three places outside Earth that has intelligent life, which is currently limited to stone-age technology.

Eros is the only moon of Venus, and is much like Gilly in KSP. It has a very eccentric orbit around Venus. It is likely a captured near-Venus asteroid, and being a C-type asteroid, contains volatiles good for producing fuel for ISRU.

Earth is the fourth planet from the sun and is exactly the same as in OTL. It also is the homeworld of the most advanced species in the solar system – according to members of said species.

Aurora is Earth’s closest moon. It has no atmosphere but it does have a high mineral content. It is also tidally locked to Earth.

Luna is the further of Earth’s 2 moons. It has a magnetosphere, a biosphere and breathable air. It isn’t tidally locked, so ancient astronomers have been able to see both hemispheres. Luna is composed of similar material to Earth in OTL. It also is slightly cooler than Earth due to a thinner atmosphere. It lacks intelligent life, with the most intelligent creatures being similar to dolphins.

Mars is the fifth planet and one of the three places outside of Earth with intelligent life and one of the most complex biospheres in the solar system. It has a proper magnetosphere (due to its large moon causing tidal heating in the core) allowing it to retain a breathable atmosphere and a habitable, but relatively cold climate, due to its distance from the Sun. Most of the rest of Mars is composed of the Mars equivalent of Tundra, and Boreal Forest. Additionally, the Tharsis Bulge’s elevated altitude makes it impossible for humans (or the native intelligent life) to enter without protection, however, it contains many valuable minerals due to its volcanism, including minerals not found on Earth. Its intelligent life was mostly killed off by Smallpox and Measles shortly after the first manned landing, which was not expected by biologists at the time as it was thought the Martians were biologically incompatible with Earth microbes.

Ceres is Mars’ single moon and is much like Ike in KSP. It is the same size as in OTL.

Minerva is the seventh planet and also the largest rocky planet in the solar system. Its high gravity and large magnetic field have let it develop a dense atmosphere, which is unbreathable to humans due to its high concentration of CO2 and other gases, but is perfectly suited to the native life. Other than the C02, the planet’s atmosphere is similar to that of Earth, only much denser and thicker. Minerva is also one of three places outside of Earth known to have intelligent life, which is not highly advanced (compared to those of Venus, Earth, and Mars, but uses its ability to survive in an atmosphere mostly unsurvivable to humans to its advantage. Minerva is mostly like Laythe in KSP, but with much deeper oceans- as most of the continents are underwater, with only the mountaintops remaining (meaning the land that there is slanted, and usually not optimal for agriculture). In the deepest point the ocean is 90 kilometers deep, although exotic ice forms make up a large portion of that distance.

Jupiter is the eighth planet and also the largest. It is basically the same as in OTL, but with a very different system of moons.

Laythe is the closest moon to Jupiter, halfway between where Io and Europa are in OTL. A combination of tidal heating and greenhouse gases has kept it at roughly the same temperature as Earth. It has a breathable atmosphere, strong magnetic field and many diverse aquatic ecosystems of small plants and animals. Laythe is very similar to its version in KSP- an ocean moon. Unfortunately, Laythe's tides are impressive- due to the gravitational forces from Jupiter, these tides have more resemblance to megatsunamis on Earth than tides, making 50% of the land completely useless. While there are a few insect-like things on land, most of the biosphere is in the ocean, centered around hydrothermal vents. While there are rumors of gigantic sea monsters in the oceans, nobody has ever taken a submarine there to check.

Europa is the second closest moon to Jupiter, and is about the size of Mars, it has a very advanced biosphere in the global ocean under the ice.

Saturn is the ninth planet and has by far the largest ring system.

Mimas is the closest of Saturn’s moons and is the same as in OTL.

Enceladus is the second closest moon to Saturn, about the size of Pluto in OTL, and has ice geysers at its south pole. Underneath the ice is a global ocean with many advanced ecosystems.

Xanadu is the third closest moon to Saturn and by far the largest. Discovered in 1655, it is larger than Titan is in OTL, and has biologically diverse seas of liquid ethane. Xanadu is also home to a species which scientists describe as ‘borderline intelligent’.

Aether is the tenth planet and the second largest. It has a very ‘fluffy’ atmosphere and was first discovered by French mathematicians Urbain Jean Joseph le Verrier and Edmond Modeste Lescarbault in 1847.

Triton is the only moon of Aether, and has an atmosphere that, while breathable, makes the surface temperatures similar to those of Central Antarctica. There are a few small spots where volcanic activity makes the surrounding areas warmer, though. Most of Triton’s biosphere is concentrated in these areas.

Pluto is the eleventh planet, discovered in 1930, and is much bigger than in OTL. It is completely frozen and lifeless, however it retains an atmosphere about as thick as that of Mars in OTL. Pluto also has a much less eccentric orbit than in OTL, and has a small ring system.

Persephone is the twelfth and outermost planet, discovered in 2004. It is currently unknown is it is a rocky planet or a gas giant. If it is a rocky planet, it will be the largest in the solar system. It is currently unknown if Persephone has any rings or moons, although its large gravitational well makes this likely.

Nibiru is a red dwarf orbiting about 0.1ly from sol. It is suspected that there is an Earth-sized planet in Nibiru’s habitable zone, and radio transmissions have recently been detected coming from the system. These transmissions have yet to be deciphered.

So, with all that said, do you think this solar system is possible? If not, what would I need to change? (Note that it doesn't have to be perfectly stable, just long enough for the alternate timeline to take place)

EDIT: Here are the actual statistics of the planets and moons, for anyone who wants to simulate it or make it as a mod for Space Engine / KSP

EDIT2: Statistics have been removed until a few things have been cleared up.

Hey, can we get orbital distances now, please? There were some in my solar system version post.

 

Nibiru is too close in my opinion. Also, if it would orbit the Sun, if would be binary. Binary systems tend to kraken up planets more- it's not worth the added complexity. Not to mention 0.1 Ly requires interstellar travel mechanisms of some sort.

Persephone is made as a gas giant in my baseline, located in the Oort Cloud, and is 2 Jupiters in Mass. Is that fine with you? I also will likely have objects like Oberon (formerly a Uranus moon) orbiting it.

 

Why did you replace Neptune with Aether? And poor Uranus.

 

Also, sorry, but I simulated Aurora, and it's not tidally locked, as Earth and Luna fight over its rotation. Also, it is supposed to be a captured, small M-type asteroid.

 

Edited December 25, 2015 by fredinno

[fredinno]

Also, MOAR OBJECTS!!!

 

My version, v2.0.

 

v In Order of its Distance from SUN v

<All objects highlighted have been edited from the previous version.>

 

-Sun: Same as IRL. The Sun is the star in the centre of the solar system. Can cause blindness when looked directly at for a long time. STAR

 

-Vulcan: Is the closest planet to the sun. Due to its closeness to the Sun, it is very hot. Vulcan is close enough to the Sun for a little more than half of the planet to be molten. It is largely composed of dense Iron and Metals and Iron/Metal Compounds, as due to its proximity to the sun, all of the lighter volatiles and silicates characterizing most planets in the Solar System boiled away from the Sun, at least on its Sun-facing side. The proximity of the planet to the Sun exerts a lot of gravitational energy on Vulcan, making it tidally locked. Volcanoes and lava dot much the surface, and contribute to the heat of the surface. The volcanoes on the surface emit large amounts of Carbon Dioxide and Sulfur into the atmosphere of Vulcan. However, the Sun's powerful solar wind blows away much of the accumulated gases (including silicates and other normally solid material) into space a very high speeds- consequently, from far away, Vulcan looks a little like a comet. The night side, however, is relatively cold, at -150 Degrees Celsius, meaning silicates and Ices are present here. [0.3 G] PLANET (12° Inclination) {0.14 AU} <VULCAN IS DISCOVERED IN ANCIENT TIMES DUE TO ITS TAIL>

 

-Mercury: Is nearly the same as in OTL, except its orbit is somewhat less eccentric. Mercury, as in OTL, contains many valuable minerals, being an “iron planet” composed mostly of metallic material.[0.4 G] PLANET (7°) {0.35 AU}

 

-Io: Similar to both Mercury and Io in OTL. However, Io is much hotter than Io in OTL, due to its orbit closer to the Sun, and has a somewhat eccentric and inclined orbit. It also has a very slow rotation. It is composed of mostly Sulphur Dioxide, and has only a tenuous atmosphere. [0.2 G] DWARF PLANET (5°) {0.5-0.6 AU}

 

-Venus: A habitable planet orbiting at a high inclination in resonance with Earth (avoiding high gravitational interactions with it that would sling it out of its orbit.) It has a (somewhat thick) atmosphere, magnetic field and a surface much different from OTL. Despite being habitable for life, it is a very dry desert planet, and lacks animals, as there is not enough water to support the amount of plants needed by animal life (aside from its intelligent species, which we will get to later). The surface water available is concentrated in a few small oasises. The surface terrain is composed of flat plains, and high, volcanic plateaus- most of which merged into one large plateau near the equator where Aphrodite Terra is OTL (these form as Venus lacks the water for tectonic plates). The air has a 17% O2 content (with the rest mostly nitrogen), and the surface temperatures average 40-50° C. This makes the planet uninhabitable for unprotected humans (though the air is breathable for many). Aphrodite Terra contains high concentrations of Uranium-235 for Nuclear weaponry, Gold, and Platinum-Group minerals for mining.

 

Venus is also one of three places outside Earth that has intelligent life, which is currently a small, feudal, agrarian society. This is strange, as the planet lacks animals. It is thought that these bipedal green animals (Kerbals? XD) were from another star system, before settling in Venus and losing their technology, and their society collapsed. These animals also eat some meat, all of which is produced from domesticated animals. The intelligent life here is very limited in number due to only having a few areas on Venus with enough water to support them. This also limits their technological advancement, though they love and greatly value the technology they DO see and/or obtain (they love rockets, especially, for some reason…)

 

Oh yeah, and the first man to step foot here was Simon Wolf Edmunds, and thus the first base here was called Edmunds' Step.

[0.9 G] PLANET (40°) {0.8 AU}

 

-Eros: Venus' only moon, Eros has a very eccentric, inclined orbit around Venus. It is likely a captured near-Venus asteroid, and being a C-type asteroid, contains volatiles good for producing fuel for ISRU. Eros is also a rubble-pile. [Negligible G] MOON (36° Inclination to Venus’ Inclination) {0.8 AU}

 

-Aurora: Moon of Earth, thought to once have been a metal-rich “M-Type Asteroid”, it contains concentrations of platinum-group metals that made it the moon that paved the way for asteroid mining. It is at an inclined, eccentric prograde orbit with Earth-Luna's barycentre- though this orbit is unstable, and the object will likely collide with either Earth or Luna in a few million years due to gravitational interactions between its larger neighbours. Aurora is relatively small, however, it is about the size of 3554 Amun (actually, the two are pretty much the same). It is not tidally locked, however, as Luna's and Earth's gravity are in a “tug of war” with the moon. [Negligible G] MOON (27°) {1 AU}

 

-Earth: Same as IRL. Ignoring the effects of tidal locking, due to storyline purposes, it is a binary to Luna. It also is the home world of the most advanced species in the solar system – according to members of said species. [1.0G] PLANET (0°, in relation to Sun(Constant Format used throughout for objects orbiting the Sun)) {1.0AU}

 

-Luna: Earth’s only moon. It has a magnetosphere (formed by tidal heating), a biosphere and breathable air. It isn’t tidally locked, so ancient astronomers have been able to see both hemispheres. (Yes, I know this isn’t possible in real life, but I’m keeping it this way for the sake of the storyline). Luna is composed of similar material to Earth in OTL, and can be considered Earth's smaller “brother” (it is a little smaller than Mars in OTL. Its atmosphere extends much farther above its surface than Earth's due to its low gravity. It also is slightly cooler than Earth due to a thinner atmosphere. It lacks intelligent life, with the most intelligent creatures being similar to dolphins.  [0.4 G] PLANET (0° Inclination, in relation to planet (Constant Format used throughout for objects orbiting another object)) {1.0AU}

 

-Phobos and Deimos: Now binary trailing-Earth Trojans. Otherwise, same as IRL. Both have similar compositions, and Phobos lacks the stress stripes caused by its proximity to Mars. [Negligible G] ASTEROIDS (14°) {1 AU}

 

-Mars: Mars is one of the three places outside of Earth with intelligent life and one of the most complex biospheres in the solar system. It has a proper magnetosphere (due to its large moon causing tidal heating in the core) allowing it to retain a breathable atmosphere and a habitable, but relatively cold climate, due to its distance from the Sun and thinner atmosphere- the polar regions to 40°N and 40°S are in a perpetual ice age. Most of the rest of Mars is composed of the Mars equivalent of Tundra, and Boreal Forest. Additionally, the Tharsis Bulge does not exist- due to plate tectonics. Instead, it is a large plain (like the Midwest) with large shield volcanoes and mountains on its western edge. As the Tharsis Bulge pushed Arabia, on the other side of the planet, up, the plains of Arabia are also underwater. Its intelligent life was not expected to be killed off by Smallpox and Measles shortly after the first manned landing, as the difference between species living on Mars and on Earth is so great- despite this, there was a large kill-off after (unknowingly) tainted goods were traded between Mars' intelligent life. Mars is also slightly larger in size, compared to Mars in OTL. As this planet is largely dry, much drier than Earth (due to low amounts of evaporation from its cold climate), it is considered a cold semi-desert planet by some scientists. It is the most Earth-like planet (aside from Luna), but lacks precious minerals and/or resources and animal biodiversity of Earth (due to less O2 produced from the partially-frozen over planet). Its atmosphere is 20% oxygen and 68% nitrogen (the rest mostly noble gases)- breathable. [0.4 G] PLANET (1°) {1.3 AU}

 

 

Bellona: Mars' only moon, about the size of Ceres in OTL and based off Ike in KSP. Bellona and Mars' compositions are similar, having formed from the same material. A strange “library” containing “monoliths” (Quantum Computers containing huge amounts of unknown data) has been found here, however- one of the greatest mysteries of the Solar System. Humans are still yet to decipher its data, but as computer technology advances, strides are being made to do so. One theory is that it was from a collapsed ancient civilization, explaining why the Martians and Humans from Earth also have similar biology. [0.03 G] MOON (4°) {1.3 AU}

 

Minerva: The largest rocky planet in the solar system. Its high gravity and large magnetic field (due to active volcanism) have let it develop a large, dense atmosphere, which, though similar to Earth's, is unbreathable due to the high concentrations of CO2 (above the human tolerance of 5mm partial pressure of CO2) to humans, but is perfectly suited to the native life, which is adapted to the conditions. Though there are large concentrations of CO2 on this planet (1% of Atmosphere), it is otherwise similar to Earth's Atmosphere. The Greenhouse effect from CO2 and evaporating water (water planet means more vapor) causes this planet to be habitable (at 25° Celsius Average Temperature) despite its distance from the Sun.

 

Minerva is also one of three places outside of Earth known to have intelligent life, which is not highly advanced (compared to those of Venus, Earth, and Mars, but uses its ability to survive in an atmosphere mostly unsurvivable to humans to its advantage). Minerva is mostly like Laythe in KSP, but with much deeper oceans- as most of the continents are underwater, with only the mountaintops remaining (meaning the land that there is is slanted, and usually not optimal for agriculture). The planet has a very low axial tilt of 1° (though this is thought to have changed significantly over the years, due to a lack of a moon, ranging from a 0-30° axial tilt.) meaning that there are no seasons. This, along with the lack of land, means that civilization is unlikely to advance much farther than basic agriculture without extra help. It contains unusually large concentrations of minerals, such as Silver, Titanium, Zirconium, Gold, and Rare Earths, and the deepest areas, 90 km deep, contain strange, exotic ices, due to their density. (Platinum-Group Metals and Uranium are also available, but at lower concentrations than on Venus.) Of course, extracting these minerals require mining underwater. The atmosphere is very similar to Earth. Minerva also has large reserves of oil and natural gas, due to its oceanic nature. [1.2 G] PLANET (2°) {1.8 AU}

 

 

Ceres: Same as in OTL, but in a more inclined orbit. Also is surrounded by a faint ring (“Dres-troids”), thought to be debris from an asteroid impact. These will likely disappear in a few million years as chunks of it crash into Dres. [0.04 G] DWARF PLANET (15°) {2.97 AU-2.56 AU}

 

Dres: A Ceres-like protoplanetary object slightly larger than Ceres OTL. It is similar to Dres in KSP 0.90, with large canyons likely formed during its early history. It has a very eccentric orbit. [0.04 G] DWARF PLANET (5°) {2.5 AU-3.1 AU}

 

Jupiter: A gas giant, Jupiter is also the 2^nd largest planet. It is basically the same as in OTL, but with a very different system of moons. [2.528G] PLANET (1.3°) {5.4 AU-4.95 AU}

 

Laythe: The closest moon to Jupiter, Laythe is very similar to its version in KSP- an ocean moon. However, due to tidal locking, its vast oceans are pushed to the poles, leaving behind a thin strip of land near the equator. Unfortunately, Laythe's tides are impressive- due to the gravitational forces from Jupiter and Castillo, these tides have more resemblance to tsunamis on Earth than tides, making the land completely useless! (It's for a good reason no probes have landed here yet.) Though the tides hinders complex land life from growing, it has a breathable atmosphere, strong magnetic field (powered by Jupiter's tidal heating of the core) and many diverse aquatic ecosystems.

 

Additionally, Laythe is very volcanically and tectonically active, spewing CO2, which is absorbed by cyanobacteria- however, these cannot support complex life at the surface, due to the lack of sunlight; all life here is deep-water, making use of thermal vents to survive. Additionally, the oceans are acidic, due to absorbing large amounts of CO2. Due to the lack of land and Sun, Laythe has an unbreathable atmosphere with a mere 5% oxygen, and composed of mostly nitrogen, with significant amounts of CO2(2%) and Water Vapor. However, the greenhouse gases also makes Laythe an average of 20° Celsius. The moon also lacks a giant impact crater, like Laythe in KSP (as this may have shattered the moon apart). Laythe is between the moons Io and Europa in OTL. Human missions getting here suffer (such as the “MILLER” planetary lander/human precursor sent here, which was quickly consumed by an unexpectedly large swell) due to the radiation belts around Jupiter, that Laythe is protected from, but in the middle of. Though it has large amount of precious minerals mine-able underwater, Laythe has largely been designated a “no-go” zone for human missions- leading to the famous quote, “All these worlds are yours, except Laythe. Attempt no landings there.” [0.8 G] MOON (0°) {5.4 AU-4.95 AU}

 

v newly made from here on out v

 

Castillo: The only other major moon of Jupiter, Castillo is much like OTL. It contains a global ocean under its icy crust and mantle, containing primitive bacteria, much like in Antarctica. It is a good staging point for a base, being away from Jupiter's radiation belts, (not to mention useful land, and volatiles to fuel ships). It is also slightly closer in to Jupiter than in OTL, allowing the two moons to form a resonance and stabilize their orbits. Unlike in OTL, however, it did get hot enough during formation to be differentiated. [0.13 G] MOON (2°) {5.4 AU-4.95 AU}

 

Saturn: A gas giant has by far the largest ring system. It lacks large, noticeable rings- Enceladus slung many of its “Shepard moons” out of orbit. It is the same as in OTL. [1 G] PLANET (2.4°) {9 AU-10 AU}

 

Enceladus: The closest major moon to Saturn, it is about the mass of Pluto in OTL, and has water-ice geysers. Underneath the ice is a global ocean thought to contain complex life getting energy from Enceladus' internal heating, though its study has so far been limited. The geysers are the source of Saturn's E-Ring, and the moon also has cryo-tectonic plates that resurface the moon. Enceladus' ocean also contains large amounts of ammonia, which also acts as an anti-freeze. It also has a more eccentric orbit around Saturn, heating the moon even more, and making its ice layer relatively thin.

[0.06 G] MOON (0°) {9 AU-10 AU}

 

Titan/Xanadu: The largest moon of Saturn. Discovered in 1655, it is 1.5x larger than IRL Titan, which it is very similar to, and has biologically diverse seas of liquid hydrocarbons. Titan orbits where Titan orbits in OTL, and has a hazy atmosphere similar to Titan IRL, but at 2 atm at the surface. Titan, though home to microbes living in its surface lakes (and other microbial life in its subsurface liquid water layer, cannot support intelligent life, due to a lack of energy available.) Titan is large enough to generate its own (weak) magnetic field, like Ganymede OTL. [0.16 G] MOON (0.3°) {9 AU-10 AU}

 

Iapetus: One of the few moons that managed to escape Titan, Saturn, and Enceladus' gravitational interactions, Iapetus is the 3^rd largest satellite of Saturn, and is the same as in OTL- a large, ellipsoidal, icy moon with a two-tone coloration. [0.02 G]  MOON (15.47°) {9 AU-10 AU}

 

Uranus: Same as in OTL. Srsly. An “ice giant” who has an axis tilted sideways (its moons are also tilted to Uranus' equilateral plane. <Descriptions from here on out are going to generally be more limited due to a lack of IRL information. It has an extreme seasonal cycle. Information=Power. [0.89 G]  PLANET (15.47°) {18.3 AU-20.1 AU}

 

Miranda: Miranda has extreme and varied topography formed by intense geological activity (it looks really cool, go take a look for yourself) and is composed of 75% ice, strangely high. Unlike in OTL, it is geologically active, with cryovolcanoes spewing water ice containing large amounts of ammonia and salts. Its geologic activity is due to tidal interactions with Ariel from its more eccentric orbit (than in OTL). Miranda also has a subsurface ocean containing complex organisms. [0.01 G]  MOON (4.2°) {18.3 AU-20.1 AU}

 

Ariel: Similar to in OTL, Ariel is composed of equal parts ices and rocky material, and is crisscrossed with scarps, and canyons due to gravitational interactions with Miranda and tidal heating. It has pockets of ammonia-rich water in its ice layer, similar to pockets of water underneath the ice of Antarctica. These, however, appear to be sterile- one theory is that these lakes were once frozen over, but when Miranda and Ariel went into orbital resonance, these pockets reheated, but devoid of life. [0.03 G]  MOON (0.3°) {18.3 AU-20.1 AU}

 

Umbriel: Same as in OTL. Umbriel, like Ariel and Miranda, has canyons, but has an otherwise old surface dominated by craters. It has a very low albedo of 10%, and has a slightly blueish colour. Like most of the other major Uranian moons, it is composed of equal parts ice and rock. [0.023 G]  MOON (0.13°) {18.3 AU-20.1 AU}

 

Titania: Same as in OTL. Titania has an extremely thin CO2 Atmosphere, which often freezes into dry ice frost. This is from out-gassing of CO2 from its 50 km thick, ammonia-rich ocean. As this water is located very deep, between its core and mantle, along with the moon's distance, means it is not known if it contains life. If it does, it is likely simple bacteria, as there is insufficient tidal heating for more complex organisms. It has large rifts and scarps formed by the expansion of its interior during its evolution. [0.038 G]  MOON (0.34°) {18.3 AU-20.1 AU}

 

Oberon: Same as OTL. Oberon is a typical Uranian moon, with canyons and rifts (formed by expansion of the planet in its later phases) and is about half ice and rock. It has dark patches similar to marina on the OTL Moon, but formed by cryovolcanic liquids (primarily water) filling the craters, rather than lava. [0.035 G]  MOON (0.06°) {18.3 AU-20.1 AU}

 

 

Beyond here, information stated may not actually known in the alternate storyline.

 

 

Neptune: (Aether, as described, would have serious consequences on the Kuiper Belt- something that I would MUCH rather not have to kraken around with, especially its dynamics and formation are not fully understood. So no, I can't let it happen. Sorry. I'm making it the same as OTL.) Same as OTL. An ice giant slightly larger than Uranus, the deep-blue Neptune has the strongest sustained winds in the solar system (more than even Jupiter). [1.14 G] PLANET (1.78°) {29.8 AU-30.3 AU}

 

Triton: (0.08 Earths) Neptune's only large moon, Triton is a captured dwarf planet orbiting retrograde to Neptune. It is 2x larger than in OTL, and has a surface covered in frozen nitrogen and methane, and a crust made of water and ammonia ices (which make up 30% of its mass). It has a young surface dotted with nitrogen cryovolcanoes (which can spew plumes up to 8km high), and cut with icy valleys and ridges. Like in OTL, it has ice caps of nitrogen- along with flat, nitrogen-ice plains and “cantaloupe terrain” formed from cryovolcanism. Triton also has an orbit slightly closer to Neptune- the increased mass of Triton, along with greater tidal heating from a closer orbit means that much of its nitrogen ices have sublimated, giving it a much thicker nitrogen atmosphere at a pressure of 0.10 atm. This atmosphere also gives Triton a slight haze, due to its content of hydrocarbons and nitriles in the lower atmosphere, forming from sublimated methane. It also has transient liquid nitrogen flows, which is usually fresh “ice lava”. This moon also has a subsurface ocean suitable for life, including muliti-celled life- though its biosphere lacks the complexity seen in other moons found closer to the Sun. The first lander to be sent here was called MANN- however, it created an overly-optimistic view of what Triton is like. [0.08 G] MOON (156.89°) {29.8 AU-30.3 AU}

 

Pluto: A planetary-mass object the size 0.5 Earths in size orbiting in a highly eccentric orbit after being shot out by gravitational interactions with Neptune. It has a hazy, thick nitrogen-methane atmosphere from sublimated nitrogen ice, along with methane-based cryovolcanism, thanks to internal and some tidal heating from Charon. Like in OTL, it is extremely contrastive, has an extreme axial tilt of 120°, and has 5 moons- the largest being Charon. However, unlike in OTL, Pluto is not in a binary system, as Charon is much smaller than Pluto. Pluto's surface is mainly water ice, covered with a layer of methane, including methane seas (like Titan, but deeper, as the Sun does not break apart methane molecules out here) with a variety of landforms. There are also a variety of lifeforms here, centring around cryovolcanic vents (but also lacks significant complexity.)

 

Pluto was discovered in 2010, primarily due to its lack of a strong infrared signature (being a terrestrial planet)

<STATS FOR PLUTO REQUIRED>

 

<I based Pluto off the possible “Kuiper Cliff planet”>

 

Charon: <Tentatively same as OTL>

[Whirligig Girl]

On 12/6/2015 at 1:05 PM, Kuzzter said:

All things are possible when you throw n-body physics out the window  Hoping someone builds this in Kopernicus, would be a fun system to play around in.

Maybe... maybe. You could probably mock something up pretty easily* by modding RSS like I did with Alternis Real Solar System, the Mod Without an Acronym.

 

*by Kopernicus standards. Kopernicus is not easy for beginners, don't get the wrong impression.

Edited December 26, 2015 by GregroxMun

[ChrisSpace]

On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2015 at 11:36 AM, fredinno said:

Hey, can we get orbital distances now, please? There were some in my solar system version post.

There's a chance i'll be in a place with no internet connection for a week or so soon, so after that I will show orbital stats

On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2015 at 11:36 AM, fredinno said:

Nibiru is too close in my opinion. Also, if it would orbit the Sun, if would be binary. Binary systems tend to kraken up planets more- it's not worth the added complexity. Not to mention 0.1 Ly requires interstellar travel mechanisms of some sort.

I think 0.1ly is far enough for everything to be stable (I think), and its also a 43rd the distance to any other star so travelling there could be done with less developed technology.

On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2015 at 11:36 AM, fredinno said:

Persephone is made as a gas giant in my baseline, located in the Oort Cloud, and is 2 Jupiters in Mass. Is that fine with you? I also will likely have objects like Oberon (formerly a Uranus moon) orbiting it.

Sure, although i'm not sure if we need any more snowballs around it. I think we have enough already.

On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2015 at 11:36 AM, fredinno said:

Why did you replace Neptune with Aether? And poor Uranus.

When a planet becomes different enough from its counterpart in OTL, I rename it. Aether is much larger than Neptune or Uranus.

On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2015 at 11:36 AM, fredinno said:

Also, sorry, but I simulated Aurora, and it's not tidally locked, as Earth and Luna fight over its rotation. Also, it is supposed to be a captured, small M-type asteroid.

What if you move Aurora closer to Earth? And also, are you using a bigger Luna than in OTL? I'll let Luna be twice as massive as in OTL at most.

7 hours ago, fredinno said:

-Vulcan: Is the closest planet to the sun. Due to its closeness to the Sun, it is very hot. Vulcan is close enough to the Sun for a little more than half of the planet to be molten. It is largely composed of dense Iron and Metals and Iron/Metal Compounds, as due to its proximity to the sun, all of the lighter volatiles and silicates characterizing most planets in the Solar System boiled away from the Sun, at least on its Sun-facing side. The proximity of the planet to the Sun exerts a lot of gravitational energy on Vulcan, making it tidally locked. Volcanoes and lava dot much the surface, and contribute to the heat of the surface. The volcanoes on the surface emit large amounts of Carbon Dioxide and Sulfur into the atmosphere of Vulcan. However, the Sun's powerful solar wind blows away much of the accumulated gases (including silicates and other normally solid material) into space a very high speeds- consequently, from far away, Vulcan looks a little like a comet. The night side, however, is relatively cold, at -150 Degrees Celsius, meaning silicates and Ices are present here.

While I appreciate your effort with the long descriptions, it makes it hard for me to see what you have and haven't changed from my descriptions.

7 hours ago, fredinno said:

Venus is also one of three places outside Earth that has intelligent life, which is currently a small, feudal, agrarian society. This is strange, as the planet lacks animals.

Wait wut? No animals?

7 hours ago, fredinno said:

It is thought that these bipedal green animals (Kerbals? XD) were from another star system, before settling in Venus and losing their technology, and their society collapsed.

I was planning from the start to add Kerbals somewhere, but not Venus. I imagined that Venus' inhabitants would be more like the sand people (can't remember what they're called) from Star Wars IV.

7 hours ago, fredinno said:

It lacks intelligent life, with the most intelligent creatures being similar to dolphins.

I'm beginning to rethink this bit.

7 hours ago, fredinno said:

A strange “library” containing “monoliths” (Quantum Computers containing huge amounts of unknown data) has been found here, however- one of the greatest mysteries of the Solar System. Humans are still yet to decipher its data, but as computer technology advances, strides are being made to do so.

This is an interesting idea for the story. Exactly what happens here i'm not sure of yet.

7 hours ago, fredinno said:

(Aether, as described, would have serious consequences on the Kuiper Belt- something that I would MUCH rather not have to kraken around with, especially its dynamics and formation are not fully understood. So no, I can't let it happen. Sorry. I'm making it the same as OTL.)

Remind me again why we need a Kupier belt? And what if Aether was moved closer inwards?

8 hours ago, fredinno said:

<I based Pluto off the possible “Kuiper Cliff planet”>

??? This is the first I have heard of this.

[fredinno]

1 hour ago, ChrisSpace said:

There's a chance i'll be in a place with no internet connection for a week or so soon, so after that I will show orbital stats

I think 0.1ly is far enough for everything to be stable (I think), and its also a 43rd the distance to any other star so travelling there could be done with less developed technology.

Sure, although i'm not sure if we need any more snowballs around it. I think we have enough already.

When a planet becomes different enough from its counterpart in OTL, I rename it. Aether is much larger than Neptune or Uranus.

What if you move Aurora closer to Earth? And also, are you using a bigger Luna than in OTL? I'll let Luna be twice as massive as in OTL at most.

While I appreciate your effort with the long descriptions, it makes it hard for me to see what you have and haven't changed from my descriptions.

Wait wut? No animals?

I was planning from the start to add Kerbals somewhere, but not Venus. I imagined that Venus' inhabitants would be more like the sand people (can't remember what they're called) from Star Wars IV.

I'm beginning to rethink this bit.

This is an interesting idea for the story. Exactly what happens here i'm not sure of yet.

Remind me again why we need a Kupier belt? And what if Aether was moved closer inwards?

??? This is the first I have heard of this.

"There's a chance i'll be in a place with no internet connection for a week or so soon, so after that I will show orbital stats". Ok, thanks. I'll be getting masses of the objects out by tomorrow.

 

"I think 0.1ly is far enough for everything to be stable (I think), and its also a 43rd the distance to any other star so travelling there could be done with less developed technology."

No, it doesn't require generation ships, with durations lasting over 70 years, but you would still need some sort of nuclear fusion or fission drive to get there, and a huge amount of life support and equipment. I would think that growing food aboard the spaceship, for example, and LOTS of debris shielding from an impact at high speeds would be necessary. Also, the journey times are still long enough that the astronauts have a good chance of never returning, depending on the power/ efficiency of the interstellar drive, and the age of the astronauts. By the time their mission is complete, they will have aged at least a decade or two, minimum.

 

Yes, a mission can be done with less than a 0.6 ly spacecraft, but the chances of such a huge object passing so close to the Sun are pretty miniscule. And yes, there would be an effect on Earth, as more Oort Cloud objects would be flung into the inner solar system than by a star from 0.6 Ly.

 

"Sure, although i'm not sure if we need any more snowballs around it. I think we have enough already."

Planetary systems can never have enough snowballs. Literally 99.9 percent of kraken (by number) is icy snowballs, if you include Oort Cloud objects. Also, those plans are undergoing serious revisions, since I added Uranus back.

 

"When a planet becomes different enough from its counterpart in OTL, I rename it. Aether is much larger than Neptune or Uranus."

I'm fairly sure ice Giants the size of Aether are not possible, but I might be wrong. The largest ice giant discovered is 3x Neptune's size, so I'll have to do some calculations.

 

And you didn't answer the more important question of getting rid of Uranus. WHY?  How can you hate Ur Anus?

 

"What if you move Aurora closer to Earth? And also, are you using a bigger Luna than in OTL? I'll let Luna be twice as massive as in OTL at most."

Yes, Luna is Mars-sized. Luna not being able to have an atmosphere if it was smaller than that was literally the first thing that was called out. We're going around in circles with this discussion, (I think it's at least the third time around this has been discussed between us)  If you don't want Luna to be much larger, don't make it habitable. Otherwise, stop changing the size. Please, choose either, and move on. I'm tired of this discussion, we need to get on with it.

 

Also, Aurora is not tidally locked due to being in a binary. I don't know why being tidally locked is suddenly so important for Aurora.

 

"While I appreciate your effort with the long descriptions, it makes it hard for me to see what you have and haven't changed from my descriptions."

For that one, little was changed, it's not that big of a deal. I'm wondering why Vulcan in your version lacks an icy dark side- it's tidally locked to the Sun, so that's why I did it like that. Just asking.

 

"Wait wut? No animals?"

Look back please at my previous posts with you. It has to do with the oxygen cycle and a lack of water to fuel plants to produce more oxygen. That should hopefully be enough to remind you; it was literally the last major dicussion right before I realized V2 of the system.

 

"I was planning from the start to add Kerbals somewhere, but not Venus. I imagined that Venus' inhabitants would be more like the sand people (can't remember what they're called) from Star Wars IV."

Well, that's a part you can probably swap with Mars on. I'm not changing it in V2.1 of the Fredinno version of the system, though.

 

"I'm beginning to rethink this bit."

Do we need more alien races? We already have three, (four including Kerbin/Fredinnune). Please think hard before you do so. I think we have more than plenty.

 

"This is an interesting idea for the story. Exactly what happens here i'm not sure of yet."

This was a nod to the alternate version of the story, where all the planets' intelligent species are from a single civilization that collapsed.

 

"Remind me again why we need a Kupier belt? And what if Aether was moved closer inwards?"

The Kuiper Belt is what gave us Pluto in OTL, what more do you need . On another note, though, it is the premise for the location of the larger version of Pluto, as it is predicted before to explain the Kuiper Cliff, in a similar way with Sedna and the Oort Cloud planet. Also, the Kuiper belt is basically a left-over planetary disk. Kuiper is the way it is today because Jupiter and Saturn stabilising their orbits destabilized Neptune and Uranus, sending them into the outer reaches.  Neptune being so much larger would kraken around with this process in ways no one really knows. Also, I'm pretty sure Neptune/Aether can't really be so big, and retain its composition- the largest ice gaint we know of is 3x Nptune size, which still places Neptune much smaller than Saturn. 

Also, the Solar System beyond Saturn is really a big mystery. We really do not know anything about it, so I wanted to be cautious, and be within the bounds of "theorized".

Lastly, Pluto lives in the Kuiper Belt- and if there's one object in the Solar System you do not want to kraken around with, it's Pluto. New Horzions travelling to Pluto saved us when Pluto became a dwarf planet. (TLDR, I can make Neptune slightly larger and closer in, but not as big as Aether. I didn't want to take the risk of krakening around with things we know so little about (but still know a bit about, so I can't just let my imagination run wild w/o reprocussions)

 

Oh yeah, and I destroyed Saturn's iconic rings due to gravitaional interactions with Enceledous, due to the moon being so big. Problem?

 

"??? This is the first I have heard of this."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planets_beyond_Neptune#Kuiper_cliff

It's definitely less popular than the Oor cloud planet, though.

 

[fredinno]

Bump. It'd be nice if anyone else wanted to contribute.

[ouion]

I'm going to make this in Universe Sandbox²  

 

[fredinno]

2 hours ago, ouion said:

I'm going to make this in Universe Sandbox²  

 

Go ahead! Good luck, too. You'll probably need to wait for planetary masses though. They're coming soon.