[WIP] German WWII rockets including never built absurdities

[TiktaalikDreaming]

There's one or two gauges that suit the theme, but in reality, even the older style dials in ASET are from much newer craft than this would have been.  So I think I'm caving in and making props.  I'm going to re-do the numbers and positions on this, but first cut of a basic airspeed indicator

[TiktaalikDreaming]

OK, I promise before the next screenshot I'll add a light source in the cockpit.

I'm going to step through and do the dials next.  They should all just be reskins on the speedo, maybe with a few small changes.  But the basic Artificial Horizon in ye olde Luftwaffe style is done now, which is the most different gauge.  So far there's 2 instruments half done in vintage style.  I'll step through the rest after normal mapping and light mapping the airspeed dial.  The artificial horizon will get more detail, it needs a slip and a turn indicator as well.  I just needed to test the pitch and roll to make sure it works.  And I'll need a switch and lever or two.  But I'm headed towards a really dismal, uncoloured cockpit.  Yay!

 

[TiktaalikDreaming]

Another gauge down, and 1.10 broke my artificial horizon. 

So, over to my RO save stuck in 1.7 land for testing, which doesn't have the ASET packs.  So, only my props are showing.  

So, top, is an artificial horizon, showing pitch and roll, with a verticle bar for slip indicator a bit off to the left.  A finer tuned roll indicator at the bottom is basically a fancy spirit level.

Left is an altimeter.  The coarse reading is working, but I've only numbered the first couple of km, and the rest is black, like what's showing here.  Also missing "km".
Lower center is the airspeed indicator that goes just a bit past MACH 1.  I need to check what they had back then that might cover off higher speeds.

[TiktaalikDreaming]

Progress.  Still mostly working in my older RO install, until there's an RPM update.  So, there may be a tad more propellant gauges than needed for stock;

Top row on the right has stock resources (showing nill, due to RO).

I also rejigged the panels and so on.  That's still a bit of a work in progress.

[TiktaalikDreaming]

OK, seeing rpm got updated, and I've progressed a bit, I've set the bonus cockpit to requiring only rpm core, all the dials n stuff will be included.  It's triggered by a module manager NEEDS statement.  For the non-rpm cockpit, I'll use stock dials/gauges as much as they can be (it's kind of limited), then just use my added ones for non-functional decoration.

So, no ASET assets;

Thanks to JonnyOThan's help, I have a functioning escape lever as well.

The stock clock does my head in though

[TiktaalikDreaming]

Home stretch for the IVA now.  I've removed the RealFuels/RO gauges, so it's a stock fueled IVA.  Added in electrical charge and Mono.  I figure there's very little excuse using this cockpit with Xenon, so left that out.  I've started adding labels, levers and switches.

[TiktaalikDreaming]

Sorting some layouts and more labeling.  I need to decide on what form the SAS controls will be.  Probably a chonky black bakelite selector for the setting and a push button for on/off.

I'm enjoying my foray into German cockpit translations.  The on/off thing at first I didn't quite get, but I think they just used A (Ein) for on, because in German on and off look so similar, Auf v Aus.  So there's a lot of things labelled Ein//Aus.  And to get confusing, there's some things just labelled Auf.  And, they often just didn't seem to label things.   I guess that's not a huge hindrance in the craft you fly daily, but is to anyone who might capture it.

[trekkist]

Can anyone provide a source reference (book title, author, publisher & year) for the A13 color profile with which this thread began?

I've googled the artist's name to no joy (coming up with a footballer)

David W.

[Astrionix]

@trekkist So I did some searching and my best guess might be a book titled, "Hitler's Miracle Weapons (Volume 3)" by Friedrich Georg. I'm pretty sure that it's the correct book as a review on Amazon for the first volume says something about illustrations by "Mr. Shestakov".

Edited July 21, 2020 by Astrion

[TiktaalikDreaming]

18 hours ago, trekkist said:

Can anyone provide a source reference (book title, author, publisher & year) for the A13 color profile with which this thread began?

I've googled the artist's name to no joy (coming up with a footballer)

David W.

I don't know where I got it from anymore. There are virtually no references to the a-11 or a-12, much of it contradictory. The a-10 has some well defined sketches and data, but the 11 & 12 are basically very vague ideas of what might be needed.

So the drawings you do find tend to be aspirational at best. And the colour scheme is likely stolen from some other German WWII paint scheme.

[TiktaalikDreaming]

Just to expand on this while I'm at a keyboard.

The A-11 and A-12 were basically calculations on how many A-10 equivalent engines, and how much fuel would be needed for stages under the A-10.  Keeping in mind the A-10 engine was far from developed.  They had a test stand, but beyond that, very little.  To scale up lower stages, they assumed they'd use multiple installations of the same engine, and use similar propellants.  The detail of which propellants varies with who's telling the story.  They'd worked with a few combos, so Ethanol and Liquid Oxygen was just one option.

As they had fairly clear ideas of the look of the A-10, we know roughly how big that engine is.  And from the number of engines calculated, plus maximum circle density (there's a foray into the maths of circle packing I don't want to re-live), there's a minimum width of the engine mounts on each of the A-11 and A-12.  Which is massively wider than any sketch I've seen.  I don't know if they somehow thought they'd be able to have a narrow skinny edition of the A-10 engine, or use part clipping, but it's so different, I think no-one really got to that stage of thinking about it.   The A-12 at least was at best, back of napkin calculation grade development.  The A-11 *might* have got further, because it's just less absurdly fat.  But I suspect they were both "oh yeah, we could add extra stages, they'd need this much thrust and fuel" level of development.

So, that infers there just aren't any well thought out sketches/paintings of what it would have looked like.

That doesn't invalidate the camo pattern though.  Likely, some artist looked at Luftwaffe or similar patterns, and used one of those.  

[trekkist]

Thanks for the reference!

Incidentally, I ran across a fine German site on A-rocket history by one Thomas Kliebenschedel...annoying for its minute font, but seemingly exhaustive, and based, so he says, on personal research in German federal archives:

http://www.v2werk-oberraderach.de/Irrtuemer/3-I.htm

 

 

 

 

[TiktaalikDreaming]

Back to the cockpit of death.

I've got SAS controls working for control, but the little red lever still doesn't move to indicate what's been selected.  SAS on/off works fine.  

I've added a throttle, and it has a lever for thrust limiter, but it's using an weighted aggregated summary of engines, and is an indicator only.

 

And the default aka non-RPM cockpit is now the same, but with dials etc replaced by stock ones where they exist.  So, the stock navball replaces the AHI etc.  The Wernher'sOS props that aren't replaced will sit there looking period correct but not functioning.  

[TiktaalikDreaming]

Progress.

SAS mode selection is fully operational.  The parachute pull lever is added, as is an engine cut off button.  So forward dash now looks like;

The left looks like;

and the right;

I was about to declare "I'm done!" with the IVA, but then I remembered I was going to look at doing a periscope type thing.  That glass canopy is so close to useless, there's no real way it would ever be flyable using just that.  It's basically a sunroof with an exit option.

This build is available via https://github.com/TiktaalikDreaming/WernhersOldStuff/releases/tag/0.19.200808

A few more tweaks, some work on the IVA mesh itself, a camera view and so on, and I'll pack it up for Spacedock.

Edited August 7, 2020 by TiktaalikDreaming

[TiktaalikDreaming]

Well, I have a camera view;

Plus a bit of extra re-arranging and tidying up.  Added a couple of life support related gauges, O2 (gas) levels, is it exists, and an "as yet does nothing" indicator for "is life support running?".  Added missing Z-Stoff gauge which in non-RO will show nothing.  And cleared some space (originally for the camera screen) for bonus dials for other propellants

[TiktaalikDreaming]

In prep for Real Fuel compatibility, I'm converting propellant gauges to read either stock or more detailed values.  For Stock fuel users, this means there's going to be some duplication in that some gauges will be reading the same value.  But seeing stock doesn't have an IVA fuel gauge, I figure I'm still coming out ahead.

This means B-Stoff and A-Stoff are joined by their hypergolic disaster cousins, R-Stoff and S-Stoff, plus for the ramjet I think I'm going Diesel, which in German is Diesel.  Experiments at the time used mostly propane, as it's gaseous at room temp and thus much easier to get a steady flame, but for a craft you don't want to be a giant balloon, it's a good plan to look for a liquid fuel with half decent density.

I also finally remembered to fix the kph to km/h

[TiktaalikDreaming]

Colouring in time;

 

I've found some references (photos) of German WWII cockpits with coloured borders on some gauges like shown.  The red is the warning levels, white is OK, yellow is usually marking areas the dial shouldn't show (also sometimes just more red, or base colour).  I did all the base propellant dials first, as they're all using the same red/white/yellow areas.  It's mildly handy to just provide a quick visual guide of "bad things".  And has the bonus of adding a bit of colour.  Since adding the B&W screen, I've noticed the cockpit has been looking like the whole lot is B&W.  It's like that screen leaches out the colour. 

 

 

Oh, yes, Val is quite a bit shorter than Jeb. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by TiktaalikDreaming

[TiktaalikDreaming]

Another dev release, 0.19.200829 on github.  Basically just the WIP IVA things. https://github.com/TiktaalikDreaming/WernhersOldStuff/releases/tag/0.19.200829

 

[Genktarov]

I'm having the issue where the Aggregat radial parachutes are always open and have no animation.  Is there a workaround/fix for this issue?

[TiktaalikDreaming]

On 9/3/2020 at 2:34 AM, Genktarov said:

I'm having the issue where the Aggregat radial parachutes are always open and have no animation.  Is there a workaround/fix for this issue?

I haven't seen the issue.

Which version of KSP are you using?

Which version of the mod are you using?

And do you have anyting that might obviously be messing with chute deployment like realChute?

The parachutes have survived OK without much love directed at them in a long time, but mostly because they're kind of a bonus extra that no-one spotted issue with much.

[Genktarov]

On 9/4/2020 at 12:38 AM, TiktaalikDreaming said:

I haven't seen the issue.

Which version of KSP are you using?

Which version of the mod are you using?

And do you have anyting that might obviously be messing with chute deployment like realChute?

The parachutes have survived OK without much love directed at them in a long time, but mostly because they're kind of a bonus extra that no-one spotted issue with much.

I think you described the same issue happening to you right before Kuttabo did his review of the mod.  The parachutes begin deployed (both in VAB build and in the launch environment).  It is only the radial Aggregat parachutes that are affected; the other parachutes work just fine.

Game version is 1.10.1.2939

Mod version is WernhersOldBits 0.19.2

I checked specifically to make sure I don't have RealChute installed.  I don't think I have any mods that should be conflicting, but I'll include a full mod list to see if you or anyone knows what might be conflicting.

Quote

Ablative-Airbrake (AblativeAirbrake 1.0.1)
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[TiktaalikDreaming]

On 9/7/2020 at 7:31 AM, Genktarov said:

I think you described the same issue happening to you right before Kuttabo did his review of the mod.  The parachutes begin deployed (both in VAB build and in the launch environment).  It is only the radial Aggregat parachutes that are affected; the other parachutes work just fine.

Game version is 1.10.1.2939

Mod version is WernhersOldBits 0.19.2

I checked specifically to make sure I don't have RealChute installed.  I don't think I have any mods that should be conflicting, but I'll include a full mod list to see if you or anyone knows what might be conflicting.

 

Just checking you mean the surface attached parachutes, ala

Not the nose cone with parachute?

I've been using the surface attached to test my IVA, and they seem to function well enough.  I do note the nose cone chute doesn't have the canopy named as per ksp parts, and in the past I noticed that means the expanded chute size gets used for craft height, but still functions.

Anyway, can you try this dev build, and let me know if it fixes it?  https://github.com/TiktaalikDreaming/WernhersOldStuff/releases/tag/0.19.200829

 

[TiktaalikDreaming]

Once I get a few more things done, I'll do a full A-4b flight, but this is a better way of showing the cockpit than static images I feel.  

 

Edited September 11, 2020 by TiktaalikDreaming
Updatin video

[TiktaalikDreaming]

It's been a while.  Haven't touched much after getting sidetracked messing around with landing skids that never went anywhere.

Started re-thinking the A-10 engine from scratch.  I'm stealing inspiration from the A-4 obviously, but also the early developments by the Americans and Soviets (esp the German contingent).  

 

[Minmus Taster]

Glad your back!