An Actual Space Center, Maybe?

[Matuchkin]

So, to sum it up, here's a nice picture of KSC I found on google images:

And here is a map of the real life KSC (Kennedy Space Center) I also found there:

Now, there are a few differences- more assembly buildings (not seen on map), more other buildings, parking lots (not seen on map), and the massive amount of launch complexes.

Now, I'm not asking Squad to add that useless amount of launch complexes or buildings, but I believe that by being able to gradually expand Kerbal Space Center in that way over the duration of the career mode, we might be able to give the KSC a nice history. that means adding more individual buildings, miscellaneous constructions (parking lots, etc), and custom-made launch complexes to suit your rockets individually.

073198681. I`m afraid I probably went full retard here. Hope you understand what I`m talking about.

EDIT, February 3rd, 2018: Wow, my username was really catchy back then.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Matuchkin

[Claw]

Hmm, that's an interesting idea. Would be neat if, when upgrading, you could specify where you wanted the building to go. Then you could have old and new together in a player chosen layout. Though I imagine all the extra models would impact performance a bit.

[Matuchkin]

 

5 minutes ago, Claw said:

Hmm, that's an interesting idea. Would be neat if, when upgrading, you could specify where you wanted the building to go. Then you could have old and new together in a player chosen layout. Though I imagine all the extra models would impact performance a bit.

That is nice, if I understand your point. What if you could start building your facilities at any point in the game, based on necessity. That would give the KSC a whole new feel as it transforms from a dust heap with two buildings and a pad, turning into a massive spaceport over time. Also, about your point. That is a very good idea, as it will provide different spaceports for every KSP player, making the KSC an actual part of the game.

Edited December 12, 2015 by 073198681

[Rithsom]

I really like this idea. Also, it almost seems like the peninsula that KSC is on was created with this in mind. There is plenty of room to place buildings/launch facilities wherever. Perhaps after the move to Unity 5, the Devs might consider doing this.

[tater]

Kind of pointless given that time is meaningless in KSP so there is no reason to parallelize anything.

[Claw]

I actually always thought it would also be kind of nice to start out with nothing but the land and some funds. Force the player to decide if they want to buy the VAB/pad first, or go for the SPH/runway first. There are other gameplay issues with that (which pretty much forces VAB at this point), but I thought it would be an interesting way to approach the start of the game.

[Matuchkin]

1 minute ago, Claw said:

I actually always thought it would also be kind of nice to start out with nothing but the land and some funds. Force the player to decide if they want to buy the VAB/pad first, or go for the SPH/runway first. There are other gameplay issues with that (which pretty much forces VAB at this point), but I thought it would be an interesting way to approach the start of the game.

Not a bad idea, forcing players to make choices...

5 minutes ago, tater said:

Kind of pointless given that time is meaningless in KSP so there is no reason to parallelize anything.

Yes, but most people here would like a story to this.

[tater]

I'd like something like KCT

[Matuchkin]

1 minute ago, tater said:

I'd like something like KCT

Good idea, though that might be slightly too much.

[322997am]

Having a moveable ksc is essential for good multiplayer.

[pincushionman]

Being able to site your own KSC (or multiple centers later in career (would be cool if it were meaningful. Right now KSC is at an ideal location and there is little reason to consider other launch sites.

But I envision cities across the planet, some of which represent locations of the various agencies. Building from or launching from locations near the agencies would provide discounts for part and launch costs (think transportation costs for materiel). Current KSC wouldn't be near anything, and would have the highest build/launch overhead cost due to that. So you would have to weigh convenience vs. cost in siting your build and launch facilities.

And at certain locations it would be cheaper to use a single manufacturer's parts rather than mixing and matching so much.

…on second thought, this would probably be WAY complicated to track, both from a technical standpoint and in communicating it to the player. Plus without axial tilt the actual advantages of different launch sites just aren't there. So this would be better suited for a mod. It would be an impetus to create more life around Kerbin, though.

Edited December 12, 2015 by pincushionman

[Matuchkin]

11 hours ago, pincushionman said:

Being able to site your own KSC (or multiple centers later in career (would be cool if it were meaningful. Right now KSC is at an ideal location and there is little reason to consider other launch sites.

But I envision cities across the planet, some of which represent locations of the various agencies. Building from or launching from locations near the agencies would provide discounts for part and launch costs (think transportation costs for materiel). Current KSC wouldn't be near anything, and would have the highest build/launch overhead cost due to that. So you would have to weigh convenience vs. cost in siting your build and launch facilities.

And at certain locations it would be cheaper to use a single manufacturer's parts rather than mixing and matching so much.

…on second thought, this would probably be WAY complicated to track, both from a technical standpoint and in communicating it to the player. Plus without axial tilt the actual advantages of different launch sites just aren't there. So this would be better suited for a mod. It would be an impetus to create more life around Kerbin, though.

That is an absolutely amazing idea. I love it.

Also, how about actual politics in the game's career mode? Nothing complicated, just some penalties for flying over other countrys' airspace, etc. That would force a player to plan his launches more carefully, and more.

[KerikBalm]

I don't see a point to having multiple launchpads or runways at the same complex, because you can't use more than one at once anyway.

I *suppose* if you built a new one instead of upgrading an old one, and you broke on of them, you might want to use the other one until you have funds to repair it... but this seems to be such a niche that its not worth contemplating.

That said... a "sim city" like building system could be fun... where I could choose where to place the buildings - though the value of this seems dubious.

What I would like to do is to be able to customize the runway... to extend it to make it longer or wider, to put a ski ramp at one end... or arrestor wires/a gravel pit so stop craft that go off the end with minimal damage. Or to put a runway facing north/south for launches and recovery from polar orbit.

But other launch sites are still the most interesting to me... as well asother *recovery* sites are even more interesting. I'd love to have another space center on the other side of kerbin to recover craft - particularly when returning from mun/minmus/ with very little dV, relying on aerobraking... if KSC is on the wrong side of the planet when you hit the atmosphere, you may have to have a rough landing and a low % recovery. Scatter some space centers around kerbin so that your recoveyr % is higher for craft that can't make it back to KSC.

I would also love to have a launchpad in the mountains - more expensive to build, and a cost per ton penalty to everything you launch from there... but maybe its worth it in some cases (it would take a lot of fine tuning to find a place between OP and pointless.

 

[RocketSquid]

This is interesting. I think the KSC is located in a good place right now, but I would like to be able to extend it towards the water (for easier boat launches) and maybe add new buildings such as a supercomputer for in-game orbital calculations.

[Hysterrics]

I like it, but I don't see it being added. Squad likes to stick to a certain development style to which we think of as "Kerbal". Which is essentially a dumbed down space program. I have always wanted a better space center but no mod really achieves what I'm looking for.

[Matuchkin]

Sequinox, I do notice that one of the major aspects of KSP is the fact that KSC is "dumbed down," but I also see that the forum community is quite sick of using rocket part that were "found lying by the side of the road". It is probably time for the space program to take a more proffesional/ realistic turn.

[Claw]

 

52 minutes ago, Sequinox said:

but no mod really achieves what I'm looking for

I think part of that has to do with the way KSP structures the data for KSC and similar locations. It's not particularly easy to mod in additional locations and I believe it's virtually impossible to add a building.

16 minutes ago, 073198681 said:

I also see that the forum community is quite sick of using rocket part that were "found lying by the side of the road".

It might also be worth pointing out that the forum is a rather small cross section of the player base. There is certainly a spread of thoughts on the "kerbal-esque" features of the game, but that debate would quickly derail this thread, which is about the structure of the KSC complex.

 

So on that subject...I do like the idea of additional locations for probably two main reasons. Even having something simple like the island runway would be nice. Having small areas like this would be great for recovery, and would also be nice if you could spawn smaller craft from them (sort of like how the lower tier buildings work). It would be nice, when wanting to go flying or driving around, to be able to spawn in other locations. I suppose those other locations could also be chosen to give the player some new challenge to flying or getting to orbit. 

[Matuchkin]

7 hours ago, Claw said:

It would be nice, when wanting to go flying or driving around, to be able to spawn in other locations. I suppose those other locations could also be chosen to give the player some new challenge to flying or getting to orbit. 

Those other locations can have other interesting uses. Some locations, such as runways and minuscule launching facilities on remote islands/ deserts, can serve as test grounds for military projects (ICBM series, fighter series, combat simulation training projects) that can take part in the game. Meanwhile, other locations that are more public can serve as airports (NASA contributes to civilian travel, ya know) or spaceports. Also, Kerbin can be divided by simple boundaries that abide by simple politics. Flying over another "country's" airspace may give a player a penalty of some sort. Flying over military airspace boundaries in civilian aircraft will also bring penalties, as will jettisoning/ deorbiting ships onto other countries (skylab?), etc. That political aspect of the game may be way too overboard, yet I just added that for the sake of interest to make this discussion more interesting.

073198681. Really, when I started this topic I was mainly thinking of how to make KSP more interesting, so why not add politics into the soup?

[cfds]

13 hours ago, Claw said:

 

I think part of that has to do with the way KSP structures the data for KSC and similar locations. It's not particularly easy to mod in additional locations and I believe it's virtually impossible to add a building.

Yeah, that ground structures are not modable is rather bad. Just imagine what talented builders could make from the tier 1 and 2 buildings, not mentioning the ability to have multiple launchpads.

[Claw]

It's a thought, but the only way I see political boundraies of any kind added to the game would be by happenstance if/when multiplayer is introduced. That would only happen if players are given different space complexes. And even then, any "politics" would likely come from players rather than a game mechanic.

[SpaceplaneAddict]

Really liking the "more launch complexes."

 

Hmm... more runways, hmm. maybe I could use that to launch a fleet of SSTO fighters at once!

[Gelix]

I think it would be nice if you would have to build each facility before you can use it.  You should also be able to build facilities in other places around kerbin as well. 

[Matuchkin]

Gelix, that was one of the points of this discussion. One of the main things I stated in this thread is that each of the facilities will be built from scratch, adding a sense of history to the game. However, it is possible to speculate on your other point, about being able to build facilities in other places around Kerbin. Some may argue that the game would gain more quality if that was possible, while some may argue that, after all, NASA is largely affected by the fact that the organization can not do anything it wants across the globe (why I mentioned politics).

[Torgo]

I'd like to see 2 buildings added to the space center

The Museum - can house previously used craft for display. Generates a low but steady revenue and reputation stream which can increase as it's improved. Alternatively, contracts could be used in place of a slow drip approach, where the Museum Society requests the craft that did ____. 

The Training Center - your Kerbals can train for upcoming missions (simulation function) and gain some experience (but not as much as on an actual mission). 

I'd love more flexibility in placing the current facilities, and starting with a lot less than what we start with now. It really should start with a small shack and a mound of dirt. 

[Matuchkin]

1 hour ago, Torgo said:

I'd like to see 2 buildings added to the space center

The Museum - can house previously used craft for display. Generates a low but steady revenue and reputation stream which can increase as it's improved. Alternatively, contracts could be used in place of a slow drip approach, where the Museum Society requests the craft that did ____. 

The Training Center - your Kerbals can train for upcoming missions (simulation function) and gain some experience (but not as much as on an actual mission). 

I'd love more flexibility in placing the current facilities, and starting with a lot less than what we start with now. It really should start with a small shack and a mound of dirt. 

Both of these ideas are very nice, especially the museum idea. In my opinion, the museum should be a collection of all the screenshots taken in-game, and the 3d models of all the ships ever used in-game.