Finally trying 1.0.5!

[SkyRender]

Due to rather extenuating circumstances, I've only just been able to try out 1.0.5.  It seems interesting, but...  Well, is it just me, or has the atmosphere on Kerbin suddenly become a complete troll?  Not only does the upper atmosphere now seem to be made of superheated material designed to melt spaceships (seriously, stuff starts blowing up when going to orbit now if your trajectory is particularly shallow!), the lower atmosphere appears to have become non-Newtonian.  On top of experiencing absurdly deadly re-entry at 0.01 atmospheric density, I now find that craft not only never drop below supersonic speeds, they actually speed UP as they enter the thickest part of the atmosphere and somehow are going over 300m/s when hitting the ground.  I'm pretty sure that's not how physics work, especially not when your aerodynamic profile has the airstream-exposed part of your craft being a massive flat disc.  Anyone have any suggestions on how to fix or at least address these twin issues?

Edited December 18, 2015 by SkyRender

[Snarfster]

What kind of re-entry trajectory are you using?

I find that with a periapsis of 29 km, I tend to do fine with the standard parachute. I've added some drogues to make it safer, but it's not 100% needed.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Snarfster

[SkyRender]

1 minute ago, Snarfster said:

What kind of re-entry trajectory are you using?

I find that with a periapsis of 29 km, I tend to do fine with the standard parachute. I've added some drogues to make it safer, but it's not 100% needed.

That's the thing: when I tried a 29km re-entry, my craft exploded horribly before even coming close to that height.  I had to raise it to 45km, and this was from a 250km apoapsis.  And even then the craft barely survived re-entry!  I thought it was going to be alright from there, but nope.  Enter the illogical rise in speed as I approached the ground, never once dropping to a low enough speed to safely deploy any parachute type at all.  Something really funky is going on, to say the least.  The only mod I have installed is Kerbal Engineer Redux.  Maybe there's a problem with the first command pod you get now?

[Warzouz]

I use a 10km PE (as in 1.0.4) but heating can be an issue sometimes and drogues are usually necessary for the vehicle I land (usually recoverable SSTO rocket stage from 15T to 450tons).

It's true it's harder than in 1.0.4. Noticeably, Airbrakes are unusable now because of very low temperature tolerance.

[Snarfster]

5 minutes ago, SkyRender said:

That's the thing: when I tried a 29km re-entry, my craft exploded horribly before even coming close to that height.  I had to raise it to 45km, and this was from a 250km apoapsis.  And even then the craft barely survived re-entry!  I thought it was going to be alright from there, but nope.  Enter the illogical rise in speed as I approached the ground, never once dropping to a low enough speed to safely deploy any parachute type at all.  Something really funky is going on, to say the least.  The only mod I have installed is Kerbal Engineer Redux.  Maybe there's a problem with the first command pod you get now?

Start simple: Parachute - Pod - Heatshield.

That should have no issues with a 29km periapsis. (Basically home from Minmus in one go).

[SkyRender]

6 minutes ago, Snarfster said:

Start simple: Parachute - Pod - Heatshield.

That should have no issues with a 29km periapsis. (Basically home from Minmus in one go).

That's more or less exactly what the culprit craft is made of, except no heatshield.  Admittedly that is part of why re-entry is so tricky, but it does not explain why the atmosphere suddenly stops paying attention to the laws of physics when entering the lower atmosphere, never allows me to drop to subsonic speeds, and even speeds my craft up as it enters the final 2km or so of airspace before hitting the ocean.

[evileye.x]

I play at 120% heat level. Really, 1.0.5 adds some challenge to reentry. You need ablator. Don't go too high - you get lot of heat and less drag. But if you go  lower, make sure you have low mass and high drag. Drogue chutes and airbrakes are your friends.

Love 1.0.5, really cool ( hot  ) changes

[Snarfster]

1 hour ago, SkyRender said:

That's more or less exactly what the culprit craft is made of, except no heatshield.  Admittedly that is part of why re-entry is so tricky, but it does not explain why the atmosphere suddenly stops paying attention to the laws of physics when entering the lower atmosphere, never allows me to drop to subsonic speeds, and even speeds my craft up as it enters the final 2km or so of airspace before hitting the ocean.

I am guessing your craft is too sleek to re-enter that way. I really suggest adding a heat shield and keeping it pointed retrograde the whole way down.

[SkyRender]

Something is very wrong with the aero model now, that much I can say for certain.  Maybe it's just the initial capsule's values being way off, but I keep getting the exact same results no matter what: it will go down to around 280m/s (mind you, it takes until the 5km mark to even get that low), then speed UP to 300m/s or so as it plows through those last 5km.  What the heck?  Also, for no sane reason, spinning causes the heat build-up during re-entry to constantly go down.  I am quite certain that would not actually work in real life.

Edited December 18, 2015 by SkyRender

[Bloody_looser]

Looks like screwed-up Physics.cfg. Try redownloading it.

[SkyRender]

2 minutes ago, Bloody_looser said:

Looks like screwed-up Physics.cfg. Try redownloading it.

It'd be easiest if someone could paste the relevant section of said cfg so I can insert it and fix this oddity.

[Hannu2]

It seems to be bug which does not hit to everyone. There has been discussions about it. I do not remember are there solutions because I had never experienced it.

[SkyRender]

It turns out that it was a messed-up Physics.cfg after all.  The atmosphere scalar was 10 times too high, among other things.

[Bloody_looser]

Just now, SkyRender said:

It turns out that it was a messed-up Physics.cfg after all.  The atmosphere scalar was 10 times too high, among other things.

Glad it sorted out

[Endersmens]

Good grief. That's is a bit messed up. After fixing it, what are your thoughts now?

 

Also, glad to hear you finally got back on to KSP. It's been quite a while, glad to see things are settling back down a bit to where you can afford to play again.  

[SkyRender]

1.0.5 is much better with proper physics definitions.  Incidentally, anyone truly wanting to experience HARD mode for KSP should set the aeroFXDensityScalar1 value to 0.09.

EDIT: Apparently somehow save files use their own independent physics definitions from the actual Physics.cfg file, and that information is stored somewhere nonsensical and/or encrypted.  My first 1.0.5 save is completely unusable as a result.  At least it only had two launches done...

Edited December 18, 2015 by SkyRender

[Guest]

I personally have found heat more manageable.  

[NathanKell]

The only physics-related setting in a save is

ReentryHeatScale

and it's in the DIFFICULTY node inside the PARAMETERS node right at the top of the save. ReentryHeatScale = 1 is the same as setting the slider to 100% ingame (it's a ratio not a percent).

[SkyRender]

Looks like it's not fixed after all.  Even when reverting the game to stock and using the correct physics definitions, it's still giving me the same issues: absurd heating at high altitudes, near-zero air resistance at low altitudes.  Suggestions?

EDIT: I have no idea if this is related or not, but loading screen hints aren't showing during the game start-up sequence either.

Edited December 18, 2015 by SkyRender

[Bloody_looser]

5 minutes ago, SkyRender said:

Looks like it's not fixed after all.  Even when reverting the game to stock and using the correct physics definitions, it's still giving me the same issues: absurd heating at high altitudes, near-zero air resistance at low altitudes.  Suggestions?

EDIT: I have no idea if this is related or not, but loading screen hints aren't showing during the game start-up sequence either.

Full redownload is the only way then.

[SkyRender]

7 minutes ago, Bloody_looser said:

Full redownload is the only way then.

Just tried that.  It did not help at all.  Maybe the .ZIP version downloaded from the KSP site is screwed up or something?  That's the only thing I can think of, as both the original download and the new one have the exact same issues.

[GoSlash27]

SkyRender,

 For the heat on the way up, the cure would be to not follow such a shallow launch trajectory. A true gravity turn won't cause overheating as long as you keep your t/w under 2.

 On the way back down, include an ablator, and decouple it from the pod once your deceleration settles down. Additionally, set your periapsis to 32 km on reentry. Don't have your capsule on a collision course with the surface from space and expect it to decelerate in time.

Best,

-Slashy

[SkyRender]

5 minutes ago, GoSlash27 said:

SkyRender,

 For the heat on the way up, the cure would be to not follow such a shallow launch trajectory. A true gravity turn won't cause overheating as long as you keep your t/w under 2.

 On the way back down, include an ablator, and decouple it from the pod once your deceleration settles down. Additionally, set your periapsis to 32 km on reentry. Don't have your capsule on a collision course with the surface from space and expect it to decelerate in time.

Best,

-Slashy

That's not even my problem at this point.  My problem is that the air is no longer behaving like air.  At sea level, everything falls at mach 1.5.  Parachutes can never, ever open because the vessel will never reach a safe speed to deploy them.  The game is effectively unplayable for me as a result of that plus the absurd super-heating that's happening in the upper atmosphere for no good reason.

[numerobis]

I'm definitely not seeing this behaviour, so you're special lucky. At least, assuming you really are entering with the pod's bottom into the wind (if you flip around you'll for sure be going supersonic, it's very pointy!)

Several people have noted a bug where the heat shield sometimes ends up having near-zero drag in some cases. Poor souls.

[GoSlash27]

SkyRender,

 Capsules falling at excessively high speeds is an established issue and I have posted the official workaround for it. If it's not working for you, then you either have a unique bug or there's an error in your procedure. More pics of an example flight would be helpful.

Best,

-Slashy