How Do Real Life Docking Controls Work?

[Endersmens]

Hello everybody! I have a small question about docking controls in real life.

So, I recently bought a new joystick. A Logitech Extreme3D Pro. I was thinking about selling my old microsoft joystick, but then I realized: I can have legit docking controls now, with one joystick in each hand. I know one stick is for rotation, and one is for translation, however I have no idea which side does what. Is left rotation and right translation? Also, I just realized I could only do forward/back and left/right with translation, wouldn't have an axis for height.... hmm. Anyone know how I could figure out how to set up two joysticks to act as docking controls? One is only two axis, with throttle and buttons, and the other is three axis, also with buttons and throttle, and a 8 direction joystick hat.

Looking forward to answers and any help offered. I really hope this works out so I can have precise and easy docking!  

[Nibb31]

Apollo had an Attitude Controller and a Translation Controller.

 

Edited January 18, 2016 by Nibb31

[Endersmens]

Any idea of how to turn my two joysticks into workable docking controllers?

[Hysterrics]

If you're up for it you should totally do a whole DIY project on it(clamp them on your desk, labels and stuff to make it look like real translation controls.)

Now, I think you might need an external program to bind both joysticks to do what you want, unless KSP has primary/secondary key binding options(much like the ones found in Euro Truck Simulator 2).

 

[monophonic]

11 hours ago, Endersmens said:

Any idea of how to turn my two joysticks into workable docking controllers?

I would suggest a setup like this:

Pitch and yaw with the 2 axis stick in your dominant hand.

Translation with the 3 axis stick in your other hand.

Roll with buttons or the hat. I might try a button on each stick, to roll to the side that stick is on.

IMO roll is the least needed control when docking so I put it in the least accessible position. Then I put attitude and velocity controls where modern military jets put them. I am assuming they would have changed the layout if it was bad.

Finally do note that I have not tried any of this personally. I am unfortunate to own two less joysticks than you do.

[Endersmens]

8 hours ago, Sequinox said:

If you're up for it you should totally do a whole DIY project on it(clamp them on your desk, labels and stuff to make it look like real translation controls.)

Now, I think you might need an external program to bind both joysticks to do what you want, unless KSP has primary/secondary key binding options(much like the ones found in Euro Truck Simulator 2).

 

You can have up to like 32 different joysticks in KSP now.  And there are primary and secondary bindings as well.

[pincushionman]

I'd recommend:

Right hand- Logitech, rotation controls. This would be consistent with normal flight controls.

Left hand- 2-axis stick with the trigger and big thumb button. The problem is how unintuitive this might be. You really want left-right and up-down to be on the axes, and you could get away with fore-aft on the thumb-trigger; but with the stick sitting normally on the desk your brain might have some trouble with it. Notice how the translation control in Nibb31's pics is just…different? There's a reason for that.

If you're up for it, you may want to consider building a mount to hold the stick base sideways (so the stick points toward you), disassembling the handle, and modifying it so you grab it like that translation control. If you're careful, you could do it without having to mess with the wiring in the stick.

Do you have a picture of the 2-axis stick?

[Endersmens]

2 hours ago, pincushionman said:

Do you have a picture of the 2-axis stick?

There is a trigger on the back.

 

Honestly though I care more about translation than rotation, I would ideally want all 3 translation axis's as axis, not buttons. I typically use buttons for rotation anyways, so sacrificing one rotation axis is definitely a possibility.

[pincushionman]

That will also be uncomfortable in the left hand. Speaking as a Precision 2 user here.

Here's the other thing, though - does RCS even DO throttleable thrust? Or is it all-or-nothing you control by applying discrete bursts? If it's the latter you gain nothing by using an analog axis.

[Endersmens]

18 hours ago, pincushionman said:

That will also be uncomfortable in the left hand. Speaking as a Precision 2 user here.

Here's the other thing, though - does RCS even DO throttleable thrust? Or is it all-or-nothing you control by applying discrete bursts? If it's the latter you gain nothing by using an analog axis.

Well when you have fine controls on the RCS slowly thrusts more and more, so I would assume you can hook it up to an axis. If not, there's probably a mod somewhere for it.  

[Nibb31]

In real life, all of the controls above used switches, so it was basically on-off.

[Endersmens]

1 minute ago, Nibb31 said:

In real life, all of the controls above used switches, so it was basically on-off.

But where the RCS bursts as powerful as they are in game? In game they're super twitchy if your craft isn't lacking on control.

[Nibb31]

Probably not.

[Dafni]

RCS definitely reacts to the proportional input of a joystick, even in regular control mode, no fine control mode required.

I have rotation on my left stick and translation on the right (backward/forward on the hat switch, up/down for EVA). I'm a lefty though. Only touch the right stick for docking or EVA, usually only use the throttle lever of that stick while flying around.

If you only want to use one stick you can still do it, by asigning one set of the comands (say translation) to the docking mode, and then just switch mode when required.

[wumpus]

On 1/19/2016 at 11:40 AM, pincushionman said:

Do you have a picture of the 2-axis stick?

Wouldn't an Xbox controller be ideal?  You might want to put it down for anything but docking, but any console game controller with a USB connector (and drivers) should work.

[Endersmens]

Well...not really. You would then have 2 2 axis sticks. Which is worse than what I have now. You would have the triggers, but I still don't see how that would be better. Hmm...

[1greywind]

Real life Soyuz have two sticks with 3-axis (lean left-right, top-down, pull-push) control each: one for translations and one for rotations. And docking telescope (analog device with lenses and mirrors. Soyuz has docking camera too, but main system is analog)  between them:

Sticks can be operated in continuous (RCS fire as long as you provide control input) or in impulse mode (one control input - one small burn, you need to return stick into neutral position before next action).

I can't find good video of actual kosmonaut piloting Soyuz, but this is how it look on simulator:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2ZLgZLD0vk

 

Edited January 20, 2016 by 1greywind

[Endersmens]

Alright. I purchased a second Logitech Extreme 3D pro (also for $3.50, brand new in box! What a steal!) So now I have 2 three axis sticks and my two axis. Would it be easier to use the 2 three axis sticks for docking controls? I could use the hat for vertical control on one of them. Just have to decide if I should put rotation on the left or on the right. I can't decide if my most precise hand should be translation or rotation. (Well, my left is more precise but isn't as strong, and my right arm is more precise than my left arm. It's weird.)

Any ideas?