Is it "moral" to leave kerbals on a planet?

[ToukieToucan]

So, I have a little dilemma: I am playing a carreer mode with RemoteTech and TAC Lifesupport, and I am not sure if I should let kerbals go to Mun/Minmus though I wont have enough fuel nor enough life support to make a colony.

Should I let kerbals freeze/starve to death for a big lump of money or should I be "moral"?

[Rocket In My Pocket]

Is bringing them back to Kerbin not an option for some reason? Should be pretty easy if your just going to the Mun or Minmus. The DV required to go and get back isn't much more than just going on a one way trip.

But to answer your main question, I would say normally no it isn't since they aren't in any real danger, however since you installed a life support mod it seems like your obviously interested in an element of danger/morality. So in your case yes, it would be immoral.

Also, if it's a one way trip why not just send an unmanned probe?

[Evanitis]

I thought this question will include lazyness or other pressing matters, maybe more interesting stuff to do. Those would be horrible reasons to let Kerbals die.

But money? Money is good, useful, and will bring progress to your space program. They will understand.

[RizzoTheRat]

Personally I wouldn't leave them to die.  I always plan to bring them back and if something goes wrong will send a rescue mission.  I'm not using life support though which I presume makes your craft heavier, and rescue missions too slow.  Can you leave some of the life support equipment on the surface and have a lighter stage to get off the mun, or do an Apollo style mission where the majority of the life support equipment stays in orbit?

 

Or just leave them on the surface with a bag of potatoes and see how they do.

[ToukieToucan]

11 minutes ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

Is bringing them back to Kerbin not an option for some reason? Should be pretty easy if your just going to the Mun or Minmus. The DV required to go and get back isn't much more than just going on a one way trip.

But to answer your main question, I would say normally no it isn't since they aren't in any real danger, however since you installed a life support mod it seems like your obviously interested in an element of danger/morality. So in your case yes, it would be immoral.

Also, if it's a one way trip why not just send an unmanned probe?

I am wanting to get some surface samples and I have a contract to plant a flag on minmus.  In adition to that I'm not the best pilot, and for a return trip would need to get some more technology.

[FungusForge]

If you can't scrounge up the Dv for there and back, then if I could still profit, I would make this a multi-launch endeavor. Giving them a boat to come home on would be preferable, especially for the sake of experience. I'd at least do what I could to at least bring back the most valuable (pilot) guy there. If the contract would't profit from a multi-launch then I'd wait until I could manage to bring them home/sustain them.

[stibbons]

I'm playing with TAC-LS too, and the main reason I started doing that was for the added challenge of never losing a Kerbal. Accidents have happened, but no I never deliberately send them on one-way missions.

[RizzoTheRat]

10 minutes ago, ToukieToucan said:

I am wanting to get some surface samples

You'll get a lot more science for them if you can bring them home, or are you planning on landing a lab for them to starve to death in?

[ToukieToucan]

27 minutes ago, RizzoTheRat said:

Personally I wouldn't leave them to die.  I always plan to bring them back and if something goes wrong will send a rescue mission.  I'm not using life support though which I presume makes your craft heavier, and rescue missions too slow.  Can you leave some of the life support equipment on the surface and have a lighter stage to get off the mun, or do an Apollo style mission where the majority of the life support equipment stays in orbit?

 

Or just leave them on the surface with a bag of potatoes and see how they do.

Waiting for a relatively short while (30 days) is no problem with a medium life support container though a perma base is impossible for now until I can recycle things. So I guess that would cancel out an apollo style mission unless I'd have a massive fuel tank thingy in orbit which is no problem for the mun since I have a Mun relay system but Minmus is a different story.

Edited January 19, 2016 by ToukieToucan

[stibbons]

28 minutes ago, ToukieToucan said:

I am wanting to get some surface samples and I have a contract to plant a flag on minmus.  In adition to that I'm not the best pilot, and for a return trip would need to get some more technology.

So get creative - Send an uncrewed lander first with extra supplies, and then try to land your crewed mission nearby.

For bonus points, use the KIS/KAS mods to transfer fuel and life support supplies from the supply drop to your crewed lander for the trip home.

[ToukieToucan]

36 minutes ago, Evanitis said:

I thought this question will include lazyness or other pressing matters, maybe more interesting stuff to do. Those would be horrible reasons to let Kerbals die.

But money? Money is good, useful, and will bring progress to your space program. They will understand.

They'd die as heroes, though would the minimal science be worth it (landed a probe with science experiments on the mun) though?

25 minutes ago, FungusForge said:

If you can't scrounge up the Dv for there and back, then if I could still profit, I would make this a multi-launch endeavor. Giving them a boat to come home on would be preferable, especially for the sake of experience. I'd at least do what I could to at least bring back the most valuable (pilot) guy there. If the contract would't profit from a multi-launch then I'd wait until I could manage to bring them home/sustain them.

Right I could just put the vessel in a mun orbit/escape muns SoI if I'm lucky and then let another vessel save him. Going to Minmus with a kerbal will give me 200,000 money so quite a big lump of money. Might even make a Minmus relay system for 100% coverage.

22 minutes ago, RizzoTheRat said:

You'll get a lot more science for them if you can bring them home, or are you planning on landing a lab for them to starve to death in?

I'll try to do everything I can do save the Kerbal's life...

[ToukieToucan]

5 minutes ago, stibbons said:

So get creative - Send an uncrewed lander first with extra supplies, and then try to land your crewed mission nearby.

For bonus points, use the KIS/KAS mods to transfer fuel and life support supplies from the supply drop to your crewed lander for the trip home.

Interesting, though how do I semi precisely land near a target? Mostly the shown trajectory shown doesn't take the rotation of the planet in account. 

[stibbons]

2 minutes ago, ToukieToucan said:

Interesting, though how do I semi precisely land near a target? Mostly the shown trajectory shown doesn't take the rotation of the planet in account. 

A bit more fuel than a regular landing, and just some practice. Quicksave, pitch your landing site a little bit ahead of your target, see how that one goes, then quickload and try again. The flats on Minmus are a pretty good place to work on this, actually. The gravity's low enough that you can bring yourself to a dead stop 10km directly above your target and then come down without burning too much fuel.

[DrMarlboro]

What I have done in the past is drop a life support container near the landing site, then park a smaller one in orbit. This way, the crew can dock with the one in orbit and top off their life support, then land near the supply site. You can continue to land more life support in this way until you can establish a colony if you want as well. 

[RizzoTheRat]

Precision landings usually involve judicious use of the quicksave in my case.   One way which usually works but isn't the most efficient is to put a manoeuvre node over the target site dropping the speed to zero, to find out how long a burn you need to stop, then start that burn at half the time from the node (ie if it's a 30 second burn start 15 seconds from the node).  This lets you counter most of the bodies rotation as you position the node quite soon before landing, and having killed your horizontal speed you drop down vertically on the target. 

30 days is plenty to get to the mun and back, how much extra weight would have to carry to have them survive a day or so in the lander before you could rendezvous with an orbital fuel/supplies dump?  Minimus takes a bit longer but still easily doable in 30 day, and if your lander's manned (kerbal'd) you don't really need a comms network, but could have an antenna on the supply dump if you like to keep in touch.

 

 

Edited January 19, 2016 by RizzoTheRat

[MrOsterman]

I think the very fact that you asked this question will tell you the answer to it.

 

[GoSlash27]

Not moral. If you can't bring them home safely, don't send them.

Best,

-Slashy

[Tfin]

If you bring them back they'll be better at their jobs than anyone else you can find. Well, if you get them to both Mun and Minmus, anyway.

[Guest]

You must bring them back.  Think about the amount of funds you'll lose.  Also, it'll have an effect on your reputation, and will harm your space program more than it will help it.

[swjr-swis]

14 hours ago, ToukieToucan said:

Should I let kerbals freeze/starve to death for a big lump of money or should I be "moral"?

Have you asked them? Face the ones you have picked for the mission, look into those big, googly eyes, and ask them what they think.

(if they actually answer you, run. Don't wait to save. RUN.)

[Guest]

1 hour ago, GoSlash27 said:

Not moral. If you can't bring them home safely, don't send them.

Best,

-Slashy

Order Zero: No one gets left behind.

[JAFO]

14 hours ago, Evanitis said:

I thought this question will include lazyness or other pressing matters, maybe more interesting stuff to do. Those would be horrible reasons to let Kerbals die.

But money? Money is good, useful, and will bring progress to your space program. They will understand.

Ah yes.. what a wonderful world we live in, where money is considered more important than lives.. so glad I don't live in your universe..  

[AbacusWizard]

LEAVE NO KERBAL BEHIND

[AbacusWizard]

17 hours ago, ToukieToucan said:

Interesting, though how do I semi precisely land near a target? Mostly the shown trajectory shown doesn't take the rotation of the planet in account. 

Visualize the direction of the planetoid's spin, and "aim" a little ahead of what you're trying to hit. Select the craft you're trying to land near as a target, and once you're on your way down, use the navball to keep your prograde pointed towards the target (and a little bit up, because gravity).

In other words...

[Evanitis]

6 hours ago, JAFO said:

so glad I don't live in your universe..  

I'd be glad too.