[1.1.3] KSO (Kerbin Shuttle Orbiter) Legacy Packs & Development Updates

[Avalon304]

16 minutes ago, Raptor22 said:

Will you add support for CoolRockets?

It'd be pretty neat to see the condensation plumes coming from the rocket engines as it sits on the launchpad.

The current KSOS aready supports CoolRockets. I imagine its likely that future versions will possibly support it too.

[Raptor22]

Oh cool!

I guess it's just because I have an old version of coolrockets

[Avalon304]

8 minutes ago, Raptor22 said:

Oh cool!

I guess it's just because I have an old version of coolrockets

We have configs for it, anyway. Its also possible that CoolRockets has changed something and they are outdated, but they are there.

[vardicd]

@Nazari1382 Have you seen:

I remember you, or @Avalon304 someone commenting on how bad the stock engine module was at keeping the KSO stable, Could this help^ ? Just trying to be helpful. Figure it can't hurt to ask.

[Avalon304]

2 hours ago, vardicd said:

@Nazari1382 Have you seen:

I remember you, or @Avalon304 someone commenting on how bad the stock engine module was at keeping the KSO stable, Could this help^ ? Just trying to be helpful. Figure it can't hurt to ask.

Knew it was coming... hadnt seen that he had released it. Gonna poke around with it and see how it works.

Edited July 2, 2016 by Avalon304

[RealGecko]

I try to install from CKAN and get this. CKAN problem?

[Nazari1382]

7 hours ago, RealGecko said:

I try to install from CKAN and get this. CKAN problem?

See first post of the thread.

[Djolox]

Oh, thanks god that this mod is still alive! I was afraid that it died long time ago.

[Avalon304]

11 hours ago, Djolox said:

Oh, thanks god that this mod is still alive! I was afraid that it died long time ago.

We most definitely live. Glad to see youre happy to see us though.

[Djolox]

Hey, do the old thermal configs still work? I found it quite problematic as no reentry path (not even the 100km) worked for me. I later added the values from Mk1 Pod and it works now.

[Avalon304]

26 minutes ago, Djolox said:

Hey, do the old thermal configs still work? I found it quite problematic as no reentry path (not even the 100km) worked for me. I later added the values from Mk1 Pod and it works now.

Which thermal configs?

[Djolox]

3 minutes ago, Avalon304 said:

Which thermal configs?

Default in mod, with only Max. temp, not int. ext.

[Avalon304]

1 minute ago, Djolox said:

Default in mod, with only Max. temp, not int. ext.

Yea, those should still work as we havent changed anything in them. (Youre talking about the kso_heat and kso_heat_s25 files, right?)

[shadowlessman]

Can you make this mod compitable with RSS and RO?

[Raptor22]

So, since you are talking about reentry and max temps, I have a question to contribute to the conversation:

Is it possible (either stock or making a plugin) to make a sort of temperature map? The bottom, shielded side can take a beating, while th me top side cannot.

Unfortunately, doing it that way means that Jeb can't reenter the atmosphere upside-down and doing stunts, but it would be realistic.

I'm not requesting that you do this; I'm just wondering if it's even possible, or if the game will just spit it back in your face with a big fat NOPE.

[evileye.x]

Hello everyone. First of all, I'd like to say it's a really great mod for career.

It's plain silly NOT TO HAVE cars in the beginning of a space program until rover tech, and I definitely will not play without KSO anymore.

Yesterday I tried first orbiter (KSP 1.0.5 very heavy modded) and here some thoughts on balance:

1) heat tolerance for cabin 2000 is darn too low. I tweaked it to mk2 - like standard 2400K, because to balance out reentry heat in game, I play on 120% heat. However it is totally possible to survive even with default values if set up PE aggressively enough and keep high pitch angle. 

2) delta-V is darn too high, even with 9 ton payload, because ISP is overpowered on shuttle main engines and oms. Changed to sane 290-315 (vector - like) and 270-320 (swivel - like). Even with that values shuttle is very, very capable. 

3) Having 6 kerbals shuttle cabin is quite overpowered me thinks, but I just will not fly more than 4 at once at it will be ok.

Other then not working landing gear (however I managed to launch, orbit, reenter and land succesfully (lol) without realizing it has no landing gear module), which is not a great deal, because I use Adjustable Landing Gear  

- this mod is so well made, thank you very much for all your efforts, KSO team!

P.S. forgot to mention that heli tail rotor summons kraken, shifting center of mass and causing phantom torgue. Not sure if you know about that.

[Avalon304]

28 minutes ago, evileye.x said:

Hello everyone. First of all, I'd like to say it's a really great mod for career.

It's plain silly NOT TO HAVE cars in the beginning of a space program until rover tech, and I definitely will not play without KSO anymore.

Yesterday I tried first orbiter (KSP 1.0.5 very heavy modded) and here some thoughts on balance:

1) heat tolerance for cabin 2000 is darn too low. I tweaked it to mk2 - like standard 2400K, because to balance out reentry heat in game, I play on 120% heat. However it is totally possible to survive even with default values if set up PE aggressively enough and keep high pitch angle. 

2) delta-V is darn too high, even with 9 ton payload, because ISP is overpowered on shuttle main engines and oms. Changed to sane 290-315 (vector - like) and 270-320 (swivel - like). Even with that values shuttle is very, very capable. 

3) Having 6 kerbals shuttle cabin is quite overpowered me thinks, but I just will not fly more than 4 at once at it will be ok.

Other then not working landing gear (however I managed to launch, orbit, reenter and land succesfully (lol) without realizing it has no landing gear module), which is not a great deal, because I use Adjustable Landing Gear  

- this mod is so well made, thank you very much for all your efforts, KSO team!

P.S. forgot to mention that heli tail rotor summons kraken, shifting center of mass and causing phantom torgue. Not sure if you know about that.

 

With regards to the gear and rotors, please be sure you are using the proper version of KSOS (and dependancies) for youre version of KSP.

 

In regards to your first point: You play on 120% reentry heat. The KSO is balanced for 100%. The heat tolerance is fine for that value. 

 

The delta-v is high on purpose. The original thought behind the KSO was for it to be an easy way for players to get cargo into orbit, and then to get back safely.

 

And how is 6 kerbals overpowered? The real shuttle holds anywhere from 6-8... but beyond that how can crew capacity be overpowered at all?

[astro_119]

Nazari you were working on the legacy versions of KSO Dauntless and KSO Super 25 and you have finished them, and Helldiver is working on KSO EX because you finished the legacy versions what are you working on now?

Edited July 7, 2016 by BlaZe119

[evileye.x]

21 minutes ago, Avalon304 said:

With regards to the gear and rotors, please be sure you are using the proper version of KSOS (and dependancies) for youre version of KSP.

I have a proper version of Firespitter, SXT props and KAX props, rotors and landing gear working perfectly...

 

21 minutes ago, Avalon304 said:

In regards to your first point: You play on 120% reentry heat. The KSO is balanced for 100%. The heat tolerance is fine for that value. 

Yes, it's totally understandable. It's actually really stock parts are unbalanced, that's why I try it compensate with 120% heat. 

 

21 minutes ago, Avalon304 said:

And how is 6 kerbals overpowered? The real shuttle holds anywhere from 6-8... but beyond that how can crew capacity be overpowered at all?

Overpowered in comparison to stock Mk3, Mk2 cabins, capsules, even B9 cockpits and so on... 

Spoiler

in this case why would I use my dream chaser?  https://www.dropbox.com/s/zguj23qts01nq91/screenshot_2016-06-28--02-02-53.png?dl=0

 

Please keep in mind, I don't want to criticize KSO, because it is a brilliant mod, just wanted to share my thoughts as career player...

Edited July 7, 2016 by evileye.x

[Avalon304]

18 minutes ago, evileye.x said:

I have a proper version of Firespitter, SXT props and KAX props, rotors and landing gear working perfectly...

 

Yes, it's totally understandable. It's actually really stock parts are unbalanced, that's why I try it compensate with 120% heat. 

 

Overpowered in comparison to stock Mk3, Mk2 cabins, capsules, even B9 cockpits and so on... 

  Hide contents

in this case why would I use my dream chaser?  https://www.dropbox.com/s/zguj23qts01nq91/screenshot_2016-06-28--02-02-53.png?dl=0

 

Please keep in mind, I don't want to criticize KSO, because it is a brilliant mod, just wanted to share my thoughts as career player...

WRT the bolded: If You have a 1.0.5 version of Firespitter, then all of the KSOS' parts that rely on Firespitter, should work properly. Unfortunately, if there is something broken in 1.0.5, there is nothing to do, we're well past that point, and I could detect no game breaking issues with the landing gear or with the chopper rotors in 1.1+.

 

WRT crew capacity: If all you were to care about is efficiency of crew transport, then there would be no reason to use your Dreamchaser over the KSO. But then again, if that was your only metric, there would probably never be a reason to use it. Other than, "just because". (Im pretty sure the EX carries 8 kerbals, total, as it exists right now, so that will probably continue to be the case).

 

As far as career goes, Id be willing to say that the intended use of the KSOS as a whole is in sandbox.

[smotheredrun]

Back again, been a crazy week.  Thanks for the replies to my earlier questions.  I will jump in though and say that the KSO is great for career play too, especially after you have unlocked a huge portion of the science/exploration tree.  The Mini Orbiter is a good vehicle for launching some probes and satellites, especially for those low and high Kerbin orbit contract missions. 

[Raptor22]

Evileye.x, you say that you are running on KSP 1.0.5. It's been updated to 1.1.3 since then. There have been more bug fixes.

Also, why use adjustable landing gear? The shuttle has landing gear perfectly tailored for it, so that it blends right into the body.

Also, they are right that the real shuttle has that many people or more. This is just a kerbalized space shuttle. So it is not really overpowered. That just means that you can swap out the crew in your station with less launches.

For example, using the current system of NASA, ESA, and other agency's astronauts hitching a ride along one of Russia's Soyuz spacecraft, it takes two launches to swap out the crew. Back when we had the space shuttle, we could swap out the entire crew with only one launch, plus bring up cargo along the way.

So, it's more efficient. And efficiency is something that KSP players like.

More delta-v means there is more room for error, as well as an extended range.

 

If you don't like the system, you could always cut down on the fuel in the tank and only load 3 kerbals in. You could also change the reentry heat settings or go into the config files and change the max heat tolerances yourself. Easy as pie!

There's lots of ways you could make it more comfortable for yourself without having the devs redo the entire mod.

[smotheredrun]

On 7/7/2016 at 1:31 AM, evileye.x said:

 

It's plain silly NOT TO HAVE cars in the beginning of a space program until rover tech, and I definitely will not play without KSO anymore.

 

It's also fun for rescue missions:

http://i.imgur.com/VKXuJzc.jpg?1

I imagine the call back to police headquarters to explain this one was quite interesting

Edited July 10, 2016 by smotheredrun

[evileye.x]

On 07.07.2016 at 10:39 PM, Raptor22 said:

There's lots of ways you could make it more comfortable for yourself without having the devs redo the entire mod.

Yeah,  that's exactly what I did for my game. I just wanted to share my thoughts regarding career, and did not demand anything from devs... 

Because this mod is awesome as it is

[ironhawx]

Awesome to see this mod alive again!!!!  Awesome mod absolutely love it.  However im having one small issue, the shuttle seems super squirly seems to want to go all over the place.  I remember this thing flying smooth in the past versions.  Even in orbit w/ efl removed and using only oms engines, the shuttle doesn't want to fly straigh but wants to continue to pitch around and flip.  Is this normal behavior?