1.1 and wheels

[KerikBalm]

I was wondering if anyone could give me information of the nature of the changes to wheel physics coming in 1.1

Recently I started designing 2.5m rovers that I can load an unload via a cargoramp into a mk3 bay. Now I've got a design to transport 4 of these rovers to orbit and beyond...

But proper function relies on the docking port in the mk3 cargobays aligning with the height of the docking port on the rovers. If the wheel suspension changes, I'm worried that these designs will become incompatible, so at the moment I'm holding off on launching these craft in career because I worry they won't work right when they get to laythe.

I need to know whether this will still work or not:

[_stilgar_]

Those wheels will change to different model,  so the height may change as well. 

 

One question though - Why is your cargo bay upside down ? 

[Frank_G]

I wouldnt launch any craft just by estimating neither. Just wait for 1.1. I bet in less than 4 weeks we will be up and away in 64 bit and powered by Unity 5. Time for some decent mission planning and some experimental craft building.

5 minutes ago, _stilgar_ said:

Those wheels will change to different model,  so the height may change as well. 

 

One question though - Why is your cargo bay upside down ? 

Probably to unload by drop-off?

[_stilgar_]

1 minute ago, Frank_G said:

Probably to unload by drop-off?

But he said he uses the ramp and I'm curious why he didn't line up the floor of the ramp with the floor on the bay. 

[KerikBalm]

Because when the docking port connects, the wheels have a tendancy to clip through the bottom of the cargobay, and upon disconnect... it doesn't go well.

So, my solution has been two-fold, both require the upside down cargobay... one is the drop off as mentioned, the other is to have a 2nd docking port to help stabilize /keep the payload from dropping through the floor. That second docking port can be mounted on the "bottom" of the cargobay, but not the "top" on the moving doors.

I didn't have it docked perfectly level, but that was good enough, to stop it from clipping through the floor.

It was clipping through after connecting, until I lowered the planes landing gear, and re-raised the payload landing geat to push the 2nd docking port close to the roof where the attraction pulled it up.

 

Clipping problems I had on earlier designs with a cargobay "right-side-up"

 

But.... if the wheel models are going to change, thats enough info for me to know I should hold off on launching these in career

 

So yes, he was right, I unload by dropoff:

and re-load with the ramp:

Edited March 6, 2016 by KerikBalm

[suicidejunkie]

Heh, neato.  That last image looks like a bird trying to swallow a fish way too big for its throat.

[sal_vager]

We won't know until the pre-release goes public guys and girls.

[selfish_meme]

It clips through because it is the same craft, you need to hold it with a strut which will disappear when you undock, and once undocked it won't clip through the floor

[KerikBalm]

Yea... but the whole point is I want to be able to load and unload... that strut will not re-appear when it re-docks.

I made another thread about this, but the short version is that I want to be able to move equipment from island to island on Laythe.

I've got the following wheeled craft ready or nearly ready:

* Mobile ISRU (1.25 and 2.5m variants)

* Mobile science rover/lab (1.25m and 2.5m variants, 2.5m has a research lab)

* Mobile crew habitat (1.25 and 2.5m versions)

* Mobile fuel depot/fuel truck (1.25 and 2.5m variants)

Then I was also considering a mobile submarine

Together, they consitute a little base, a completely airmobile base that I can relocate to any island on laythe. As I'll only have 1 SSTO to shuttle them one at a time to the surface from orbit, 1 time use fixed struts are not an option.

And what you see in those pictures is a "SSTO module" to allow the craft to get to space (It only has panthers and wheeselys permenantly attached)... which I probably won't have any use for, as it has no payload capacity when "converted" to an SSTO, but whatever... (I have a 2nd version sharing the same fusalage, that can get to and from orbit with a payload in the mk3 bay)... I'm taking it just so that its not stuck on laythe.

In both cases, I'm getting the mk3 planes to laythe by using a LV-N module that also fits in the cargobay... so the payload needs to be loaded after arrival at laythe orbit.

The SSTO module in action:

The way I plan on getting the other "base modules" to laythe (4 at a time):

[selfish_meme]

5 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

Yea... but the whole point is I want to be able to load and unload... that strut will not re-appear when it re-docks.

I made another thread about this, but the short version is that I want to be able to move equipment from island to island on Laythe.

I've got the following wheeled craft ready or nearly ready:

* Mobile ISRU (1.25 and 2.5m variants)

* Mobile science rover/lab (1.25m and 2.5m variants, 2.5m has a research lab)

* Mobile crew habitat (1.25 and 2.5m versions)

* Mobile fuel depot/fuel truck (1.25 and 2.5m variants)

Then I was also considering a mobile submarine

Together, they consitute a little base, a completely airmobile base that I can relocate to any island on laythe. As I'll only have 1 SSTO to shuttle them one at a time to the surface from orbit, 1 time use fixed struts are not an option.

And what you see in those pictures is a "SSTO module" to allow the craft to get to space (It only has panthers and wheeselys permenantly attached)... which I probably won't have any use for, as it has no payload capacity when "converted" to an SSTO, but whatever... (I have a 2nd version sharing the same fusalage, that can get to and from orbit with a payload in the mk3 bay)... I'm taking it just so that its not stuck on laythe.

In both cases, I'm getting the mk3 planes to laythe by using a LV-N module that also fits in the cargobay... so the payload needs to be loaded after arrival at laythe orbit.

The SSTO module in action:

 

 

The way I plan on getting the other "base modules" to laythe (4 at a time):

 

Hehe Great minds and all

I see what you mean about loading and unloading, I remember I had one solution where I put the port on the front and a port on the floor, I had a second set of legs on the rover that lifted it over the floor port, when it docked in front I would raise the legs and it would dock on the floor

[KerikBalm]

Hmm, thats a solution I hadn't thought of... but 2.5m rovers are already quite a tight fit, with very little ground clearance. I wouldn't want to try to get them to even roll over the floor mounted docking port (indeed, even the top mounted one gave me trouble when loading at an angle, I had to drive them up the ramp, put breaks on, switch to the plane, and move the slider on the ramp 1% at a time to lift up the cargoramp with the rover on it until it could drive forward without getting stuck on the ceiling of the cargobay or the docking port on the ceiling).

Then I'd also worry about the rover bottoming out on its docking port on rough terrain. So, for now, I'm sticking with the bottom opening docking ports. My 1.25m rovers don't dock with the top docking port, they are just small enough that the one docking port holds them in place well enough, or the clipping isn't so bad and I can just open the bottom doors prior to release.

In the meantime, I installed the outer planets mod, and will do stuff related to that until 1.1 comes and I can finalize my air-mobile laythe rover-base.

 

BTW... I'm guessing that picture depicts a LV-N cluser firing out the back of the cargo ramp? Is it a detachable LV-N cluster? I've given my LV-N clusters RCS and power generation, and I intend to use them as orbital tugs once at laythe (and I jsut thought of a redesign... currently I've got a 1.25m docking port on the front, but I think I'll use a 2.5m docking port, and another section with a 1.25m docking port on one end, a 2.5m on the other, RCS, a probe core, etc.... as an adaptor that I can detach for pushing 2.5m payloads... and a 2nd adaptor that goes 2.5m-> claw... thye claw one I'll somehow manage to bring with the large cargo ship with those 4 mk3 cargobays)

[selfish_meme]

The cluster is not made to be detachable and it also needs a small bay to have enough depth, but thats OK its a good place to put radiators and panels. Its an SSTA that gets to Kerbin orbit with 3200ms of dV, its on KerbalX, called the KSS Voyager its also VTOL capable on moons and rough terrain off Kerbin. Plus it can refuel itself. Only carries itself and 4 Kerbals though. i only just figured out how efficient the ramp is drag and weight wise, this won't work to anywhere near the efficiency without it.

[KerikBalm]

Hmm, I generally don't like to build "SSTA" craft as they are:

* Inefficient

* exceedingly unrealistic

So I generally stage everything as much as I can while still making it reusable/recoverable. That craft meant to take all those rovers for instance... its a SSTO, in the picture I posted, you see it just after staging of the booster section, which is fully recoverable.

Get to orbit: stage

Get to kerbin escape velocity: stage (and recover/reuse the "ejector" stage after a retroburn and aeorbraking to a lower orbit for refueling or return to kerbin)

Get to target SOI: Capture into highly eliptical orbit, and stage (rendevous with this later, as its used on the return)

Get to low circular orbit around target: stage  a dedicated landing craft(rendevous with the part of the craft in low orbit, generally I leave the lander there so future missions just carry refills for the lander)

You get the idea... except now I'm trying to use modular things that I can put in the cargobay.

Get to low laythe orbit: detach Rapier module, attach the next stage (a LV-N module). I'm thinking I can even make a module to allow it to land on Val...

but I need to be able to load and unload that rapier module on the surface... its a staging of sorts to allow the craft to be better suited for its role in laythe's atmosphere.

So... I'm really hoping that part dimensions stay more or less the same, and the suspension will compress the same amount.

If the wheel physics changes also fix the clipping through the cargobay problems once docked... that would be just perfect.