What mods to use.

[Madscientist16180]

Hello all. I'm about to restart my career and as everytime, i"m looking to try a new mod list. But there is so many of them, would take me a day to look at them all and choose. For this reason, i'm asking you what modlist you would use to get what i'm looking for.

1-I explored most of the stock planets, so that game will include a planet pack. Here i have no Idea which mod is better.

2- I want that game to focus on planetary base building, ISRU and that kinda stuff. From what i read, the Kolonization mod seems to fit the bill. I guess that ScanSat is also a must to help plan everything?

3-Feeling the techtree is too quickly done, i'm looking at expending it. What should i use? The interstellar mod seem to fit, as do the NearFuturXYZ mod suite.

4-I'd like to explore new, lore friendly engine and other parts. Maybe KWrocektry there?

5-I want to build bases, so i'm looking at a small number of mods to keep the base from lagging too much.

6-I definitly want life support, should i go with the Kolonization related one or TAC? Does both work well together?

7-KAS, KIS, KJR, i guess i'll need them all.

8-Kerbal engineering, i want this game to be MechJeb less, still need to learn to interplanetary transfer without manœuvre planner. 

 

So, i guess this summarize what i want from this new game.

Ho true, what does the remote tech mod do exactly? I gather it "force" you to build a comm network in order to communicate? Is that right? And is that all there is to it?

 

Thank in advance, your input will be really appreciated.

Edit: Maybe i'll try a TechTree rebalancing mod, SETI?

Edited March 14, 2016 by Madscientist16180

[Streetwind]

Well, most of the questions you answer yourself, really. Not much to add to those.

In regards to 1.: Planet packs are a dime a dozen since Kopernicus got off the ground, but if you're looking for particularly high quality, you have to main options. One, Outer Planets Mod adds a large number of solar system analogues beyond the orbit of Jool (and moves Eeloo to be a moon on one ofthe new bodies). Two, New Horizons takes all the stock bodies plus a bunch of custom new ones, and arranges them in a completely different way. If you like the solar system analogue idea, go with OPM; if you want a completely different progression straight from the first launch, go with New Horizons.

In regards to 5.: Number of mods doesn't make bases lag more. Part count alone does that!

In regards to RemoteTech: in addition to the communications network stuff, you also get a "flight computer" for probe cores, with which you can preprogram maneuvers that are then executed autonomously. That becomes important at large distances to Kerbin, since communications delay is a thing - and steering can become hard if every key press takes 5-10 seconds to travel to your vessel.

(Kerbal controlled vessels have neither flight computer nor comms delay. You can also use crewed crafts/stations as local control stations that drastically shorten the delay because you're not transmitting all the way from Kerbin.)

 

Finally: there's an add-on subforum you can use for more detailed questions about mods. Each mod also has its own release thread there.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Streetwind

[Snark]

+1 to Streetwind's excellent advice.  His discussion about OPM and New Horizons is spot on.

You'll definitely want KAS/KIS for base building.

I personally prefer to avoid KJR, I feel that it takes away from the gameplay by making things too easy.  Depends on your taste. 

TAC-LS is good, and it interoperates well with UKS/MKS.  (UKS/MKS has its own simple life support mechanism, but when RoverDude was implementing UKS/MKS, he deliberately set it up to make it compatible with TAC-LS.)  I would recommend TAC-LS for your life-support needs.

As far as base-building is concerned:  I would advise some caution about using UKS/MKS.  I'm not criticizing the mod itself (it's very well done, and huge-- a real tour de force).  However, be advised that it really alters KSP into a different kind of game entirely.  You'll spend your time micromanaging resources and logistics rather than flying rocketships.  Basically, you're playing "Space Tycoon."

There's nothing wrong with that, if that's what you want.  It's very well done.  I did a full play-through with UKS/MKS, and I'm glad that I did it, but once was enough and I won't be going back again-- because it turns out that what I really enjoy about KSP is flying rocket ships, and UKS/MKS really shifts the emphasis away from that, so it's not really for me.

If you'd like an alternative to UKS/MKS:  I suggest Extraplanetary Launchpads.  (Actually, it's not an alternative, because you can be running a UKS/MKS game with Extraplanetary Launchpads.)  This mod lets you mine a new resource (MetalOre) which you can then turn into rocket parts and build ships off-planet.  So you could, for example, set up a base on Minmus and end up building/launching your ships from there instead of from Kerbin.

So, for example, a game that has KIS/KAS for connecting base components together, and Extraplanetary Launchpads for building ships and base components on-site, can be great for base-building even without UKS/MKS.

(Incidentally, I gather that RoverDude has produced another mod, "MKS Lite", to give an experience like UKS/MKS that's "milder" and not quite so extreme, so if you've never done any Kolonization mods before, it might be a good idea to start off with the "lite" one and see how you like it.  I can't speak to what it's like, though, since I've never run the "lite" version myself.)

Edited March 14, 2016 by Snark

[CSE]

1. Planets - if you intend to focus on base building, you're probably going to focus on just one or two worlds. Have a look at either Outer Planets or New Horizons, and pick the one with the planet you like best. The orbit doesn't matter as much. Thinking of engines in point (4), rescales such as K2 (double size) or 64K (6.4x bigger) let you play with more powerful launchers without taking all the difficulty out. There are Module Manager patches for rescaled OPM and perhaps for New Horizons too.

2. Bases - yes, Kolonization and SCANSat. Optional extras: Nertea's Stockalike Station Parts fit in well with the Near Future range, of course, and  Nils277's Kerbal Planetary Base Systems makes bases that look like bases.

3. Tech tree - I'd recommend Community Tech Tree (CTT) if you're finding stock too quick and easy, because it has good support for a wide range of mods. Engineering Tech Tree (ETT) and SETI seem, to me, to be more if you're finding the stock tree illogical and wrong rather than over-too-soon. I don't know Interstellar all that well.

4. Engines - KWRocketry or SpaceY for heavy launch vehicles, especially if you use a rescaled solar system. AIES and Near Future have great deep-space and small probe engines.

5. Lagging - have a look at Dynamic Texture Loader, if you're not using Texture Replacer. (I find it hard to give up the custom spacesuits, though, in a moonbase game.)

6. Life support - USI-LS for the best fit and gameplay. As with the tech tree in (3), I feel if you were after the more detailed realism then you'd already know you wanted TAC.

7. KAS/KIS - definitely. KJR - you might be ok without it, if you decide not to go for a rescaled solar system. Infernal Robotics is worth a look for base assembly too.

8. KER - of course. But don't be put off MechJeb entirely: with slower tech progression and in, perhaps, a 6.4x Kerbin where you really need that shiny new first stage engine, you may find you postpone researching many of the autopilot features. You can make up for it with your own piloting skills much more easily than you could make up for lack of most other parts.

Have fun, and post screenshots of your fantastic base when it's looking good.

[Madscientist16180]

Tks for the advice. I understand what you say about me already answering my own question, it was more of à "there's what i found, is there any other that do the same better" kinda thing.

As for the warning about Kolonization, it does sound like a convincing sale pitch to me lol! That's exactly what i hoped it would be. 

One point went unadressed and i'd really like to know the community opinion, is KWRocetry considered lore friendly? I'm looking at a real challenge for this game, not at making anything easier, same question about the "Near futur" stuffs.

Tks again for taking the time to write such complete answers.

[CSE]

I would say KW is moderately lore-friendly, with AIES/Near Future/SpaceY a little more so. I'd pick the one you think looks coolest; they're all good mods. If you pick two, I'd make it Near Future Propulsion plus one of the others.

Any of these engine packs will make launch and transfer slightly easier than stock engines alone. But I'd echo Snark on this one: don't put a 6.4x Kerbin launch challenge and a Kolonization-class base challenge in the same game, at least not until you've done each separately.

[Geschosskopf]

4 hours ago, Madscientist16180 said:

Hello all. I'm about to restart my career and as everytime, i"m looking to try a new mod list. But there is so many of them, would take me a day to look at them all and choose. For this reason, i'm asking you what modlist you would use to get what i'm looking for.

Hmmm.  Well, 1.1 is coming out in the next few weeks and updates always are major speedbumps for modded games.  Some mods get updated to work in the new KSP version, some never do, and those that do might take several weeks to several months.  So you might want to wait until 1.1 comes out and the mod situation settles down a bit before investing too much time and effort into a new career game.

But OTOH, if you're pretty sure a given mod will get updated soon after 1.1 comes out, now's a perfect time to give it a test-drive.  Either do a sandbox game or a career you don't really take seriously, the point just being to see if you actually like the mod.  That way, you'll have your mod list ready for 1.1.

Anyway, as to your specific stuff...

4 hours ago, Madscientist16180 said:

1-I explored most of the stock planets, so that game will include a planet pack. Here i have no Idea which mod is better.

The Outer Planets Mod (OPM) is wonderful.  Beautiful, realistic yet Kerbal, and likely to survive the 1.1 barrier.  So I recommend it.  

NOTE, however, that you will definitely want Better Time Warp to make getting out there less excruciating (travel times are measured in decades), so be sure to put that on your list as well.

NOTE:  And if you really want life support, you'll almost certainly need DeepFreeze Continued.  Otherwise your Kerbals will starve en route because you simply can't pack enough food for such long trips without that being pretty much all your ship.

 NOTE:  OPM is the only new planets mod I've tried so can't judge the others.  But I'm quite happy with OPM and see no reason to change it for something else just yet.

4 hours ago, Madscientist16180 said:

2- I want that game to focus on planetary base building, ISRU and that kinda stuff. From what i read, the Kolonization mod seems to fit the bill. I guess that ScanSat is also a must to help plan everything?

Yeah, you'll need SCANsat to find where all the MANY resources a fully self-sufficient base needs.  And be sure to configure it to do resources the way you want (such as by disabling stock scanning).  See the SCANsat OP for instructions.

As to making self-sufficient bases, there are 3 main variables there:

1. Which live support system you use (some are easier than others)
2. Which base parts mod you use (each does the life support differently and has more or less other features)\
3. Whether you also want to build ships at the base on top of just keeping Kerbals alive indefinitely.

You asked about life support as a separate question so I'll skip that for now.

As to the base mods themselves, I've tried all of them I think and they all have their strengths and weaknesses.  Their authors all put a huge amount of work into them so they all are good at what they do, they just tend to do different things, or focus on one aspect of the game more than others.  The 2 main variables with them all are 1) portability and 2) system complexity.  Find the mix of those 2 variables that suits you.

Base part mods with rigid, solid modules are the least portable and hardest to assemble, but give your creation an air of permanence.  OTOH, mods with modules that are all or mostly inflatable are the easiest to transport and assemble on-site, but have an impermanent look to them.  To me, functionality trumps aesthetics so I go with inflatables as much as I can.  A base that can be stuffed into several generic shipping containers is MUCH easier to get to another planet, via any type of ship, than is one made of large solid modules that have to be shipped individually.

As to complexity, by that I mean the number of different modules (each of which performs some different process) necessary to make the base self-sufficient in "insert_resource_name_here".and also the number of variables involved in the calculations of those processes.  The more modules required, the more parts the base requires, the more modules you have to send out, and the more modules you have to connect together.  All this makes the base more tasty to the Kraken.  And the more variables are involved in the module processes, the harder it is to ever get the base to function as desired or even know what variable to tweak how much to fix the problem.  The various base mods run the whole spectrum of complexity from the minimum required to "I'll never figure this out".  So pick your poison, but do it carefully.

Long, extensive testdrives are ESSENTIAL, so you know what you're dealing with and can  make informed decisions.  Therefore, I make no specific recommendation here.  That's got to be your decision.

And that's just for basic life support self-sufficiency.  If you want to build your own ships there from scratch, that's a whole 'nother level of complexity on top.  There are several options available here, ranging from Extraplanetary Launchpads itself, to base mods that incorporate it pretty much as-is, to mods that provide their own mechanisms, to Simple Construction.  The latter can turn Ore directly into rockets without going through some number of intermediate stages.  The others require multiple intermediate steps which each require their own modules, have their own processes, etc.  Again, testdrive this feature before committing.

4 hours ago, Madscientist16180 said:

3-Feeling the techtree is too quickly done, i'm looking at expending it. What should i use? The interstellar mod seem to fit, as do the NearFuturXYZ mod suite.

Well, before you go installing a new tech tree, don't forget there are difficulty sliders when you 1st start the game.  You can jack the effective science point cost of each node up considerably by reducing your science rewards.  And you can opt to have purchase costs for each part on each node.  I only recommend using a different tech tree if you just don't like the order and grouping of parts on the stock tech tree.

FWIW, however, this question is kinda moot.  Many of the base part mods use the Community Tech Tree so you'll have that already.  Which of course you can tweak with the difficulty sliders.

4 hours ago, Madscientist16180 said:

4-I'd like to explore new, lore friendly engine and other parts. Maybe KWrocektry there?

I'd go with Space-Y Heavy Lifters instead of KW.  They do the same thing but Space-Y is still active by its author, while KW is not AFAIK.

4 hours ago, Madscientist16180 said:

5-I want to build bases, so i'm looking at a small number of mods to keep the base from lagging too much.

Bases lag.  They necessarily put lots of parts in 1 small place.  Above I talked about the complexity of base mods.  Those of lower complexity have fewer parts so are less laggy.  1.1 MIGHT help a LITTLE with the part-count issue, but don't expect miracles there.

4 hours ago, Madscientist16180 said:

6-I definitly want life support, should i go with the Kolonization related one or TAC? Does both work well together?

Most base mods work with most life support mods so pick your poison.  Life support mods range from simple to complex.  And the more complex the life support system, the more complex the base must be because it then needs more modules to process more life support resources.  And of course the harder it is to make everything balance out because of the greater number of variables.

While I leave it to you to do the testing and determine what life support system you like the best, I will say that after playing with all the life support and base mods, I've about decided that they don't really add enough to the game to be worth all the hassle of trying to work with them and make self-sufficient bases.  As far as I can tell, none of them actually work as advertised, and will let you down in the field, and your game eventually devolves into just micromanaging the systems of the base without ever being able to explore the rest of the planet.  So I'm this >< close to just junking the whole life support mod idea and simply role-playing it.  I mean, why go to all the trouble of setting up something that HAS to work for your game to succeed and then doesn't, despite your best efforts?  Why get trapped in base micromanagement instead of exploration?  Why not just set it all up, say to yourself that it does in fact work, and go on about your REAL business.

The alternative to junking life support is to use it but just forget about being self-sufficient.  Make periodic resupply runs and call it a day.  That's attractive, too.

[Madscientist16180]

That's quite a complete answer!

I'll give it a go with just changing KW to my OP list. 

Tks for the 1.1 comment, i'm aware of the fact, and do not mind. Seasonal worker, i still have a few week of spare time before fall lol. So, i'll give this game a good go before 1.1 get released

Starting the game as soon as i gathered the mods

Edited March 14, 2016 by Madscientist16180

[Vim Razz]

7 hours ago, Madscientist16180 said:

6-I definitly want life support, should i go with the Kolonization related one or TAC? Does both work well together?

If you plan on playing with MKS/OKS, then you'll want to pick one or the other.  I've run them side-by-side (with Snacks in there, too) without MKS though, and they can work well enough that way as long as you're not using them with any other mods that expect you to choose either one or the other.

 

Comparing the two, USI-LS is greedier than TAC-LS in the sense that it will pressure you to design your craft around USI-LS components more aggressively then TAC-LS will. 

USI supplies are much bulkier and heavier than TAC resources, and USI recycling hardware is very light in comparison to TAC, so pretty much every mid-range+ USI-LS ship ends up being a resource recycler.  With TAC-LS the boundaries are a bit fuzzier, and the components are easier to bolt on to another design rather than having to build your design around them.

Of course, USI-LS is designed to work very well with MKS, which is already a super-greedy mod anyway. 

 

And it's worth noting that when I call these mods "greedy", that's not meant to imply that they're bad or anything.  They're great mods.  It just means that they're very demanding in terms of player attention and design decisions centered around their particular components and mechanics.  An MKS game is first and foremost an MKS game.  Any other mods you happen to have installed will pretty much be secondary.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Vim Razz

[Geschosskopf]

1 hour ago, Madscientist16180 said:

I'll give it a go with just changing KW to my OP list. 

Like I said, you're probably better advised to use Space-Y LIfters instead of KW.  KW appears to be a "zombie mod", officially dead but resurrected to some extent by a community effort that could well prove ephemeral, as have many other such efforts before it.  OTOH, Space-Y is alive and well.

1 hour ago, Madscientist16180 said:

Tks for the 1.1 comment, i'm aware of the fact, and do not mind. Seasonal worker, i still have a few week of spare time before fall lol. So, i'll give this game a good go before 1.1 get released

You must live in the Southern Hemisphere.  North of the Equator, the Vernal Equinox is 1 week from today.

[Madscientist16180]

Ish, nope, i made a mistake between fall and spring!  Up here, snow melt late in spring lol

French is my first language (Québec), i got what i think is good English, but sometime i screw up lol!

 

I guess as long as i do not have a vessel using part form KW, i can change it without a glitch?