Bug: parts clip into ground and cause base to rip apart.

[Broco]

Hello guys, I have a big problem with my Minmus Refinery I built. It was planned as a huge fuel supply for my orbital station. The building process was pretty long inculding some errors and fixes but in the end it worked out and I had my facilty completed. It wobbled a bit upon loading and shaked due to some clipping errors with the drills but nothing crucial until the tanks got heavier because of fuel getting loaded into them. I created an album to show my problem.

I wanted to know if I can edit the safegame file in a way that the tanks are on the exact same level as the root part to avoid clipping into the ground or if I can change the root part to the lowest part. Also will this bug be fixed in the next version? In my opinion the altitude of a vessel from the ground should be calculated by the lowest part, not by the root part.

Please help, I spent a whole week building this and its pretty frustrating. I can edit the safe file and lift the whole facility in the air a few centimeters to prevent it from exploding but I have to do this EVERY time I approach it or load it.

Any hints?

 

Also I uploaded the safegame (I excluded everything except the vessel, which is still a lot of code): http://www.file-upload.net/download-11408640/refinery.sfs.html

Edited March 20, 2016 by Broco
Indluded Safegame

[Jaeleth]

Actually... Some bad news... Until squad solves that clliping into terrain extreme reaction, that is

I am having the same problem on a base, curiously on Minmus too. Luckily, it started only to happen at the edge of the base, and destroyed a pipeline extension I planned to put there.

The point is: You cannot build large ground bases... period. You simply can´t. If part count doesn't kills you in the meanwhile, sooner or later they will encounter terrain and until squad finds a way to let them dig a little into moon dust... there is no way. Another solution would be to level terrain (i think someone, somewhere, would be making a mod for that).

There are, currently, 2 workarounds, for future bases, as far as my experience with this annoyance goes:

 

1. Use Klaws to connect buildings, they are cumbersome, ugly and totally un-realistic, but since you can "flex" them by unlocking the pivot, they help solving the problem of going around terrain..

2. Use landing legs. Put everything on landing legs, I even designed some base modules using landing legs, panels (for good looks) and docking ports, and then I wil lower my fuel tanks on top of them, each base takes 3 sr doking ports facing UP, and several docking ports and small docking ports facing the other sides. thus allowing more modules to be attached to each other. But each module rests on landing legs, several of them, to support large fuel tanks.

But... even these workarounds have limits, do try not to stretch your base too much along a single direction and make it more circular.

Oh, and by the way, unless for good looking reasons, you need only one ore tank and one ISRU, and a few drills, just enough so that the whole thing works 24/7 on the energy package you have, the only thing you need to have plenty is fuel tanks, of course.

 

 

SO, on to some PRACTICAL ADVICE:

Since you already have the base in place and, obviously, do not want to waste all those hours (believe me, I know what that means...(sad, rolling eyes )) Try to find the troublesome end. Detach it, if possible, and attach a claw with a docking port on each side, to make an hinge. But this might be more troublesome than one can imagine...

OR... Since the game is, obviously, cheating on you, cheat it back... Find a bit of terrain which you think would've been better to place your base and use Hyperedit MOD to land your entire base at that point... If, for some reason, it still doesn´t works you may go as far as (if you can) relocate (a few centimeters) the offending port by editing the game file.

 

 

One final remark...

Sadly, since I am fond of ground bases, I found that the most efficient in game terms (not in fuel terms, note) is to have a huge self mining spaceship, which lands on planet, drills huge amounts of fuel and brings it all to orbit where smaller ships will dock and refuel. (particularly on low gravity moons)

It will waste huge amounts of fuel up and down but it will save countless game hours doing the landing - docking routine of multiple smaller ships which is always more complex, although fun, when you're talking docking at a ground station, and will prevent the inevitable clipping into terrain problems that occur with permanent ground bases...

 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2016 by Jaeleth

[Broco]

Hey, thanks for your reply, though it takes a lot of hope away from me. I designed the whole base in a way that my big tanker (who has 4 big  Kerbodyne tanks on him) can land on the platform - you see it in the background on the second picture -  and refuel my orbital station so i have huge amounts of fuel always ready for my vessels at all times.

Do you know how I have to edit the safe file in order to move the port? That would be my go-to solution for this since I really dont want to waste more time getting something to work that already worked. Else I will just dump the whole thing and build a new one without docking ports. I didnt build landing legs to save parts but I guess you're right about the fuel tanks and the IRSUs though I would like to have at least 2.

 

Oh regarding the safegame file: I attached the part for the vessel in my post and I found out how to move docking ports but the problem is, if i move them it doesnt move the whole tank-section relative to the port it just moves the docking port so the other end is just connected to "nothing". How can I level out the whole tank section?

[Jaeleth]

3 hours ago, Broco said:

Oh regarding the safegame file: I attached the part for the vessel in my post and I found out how to move docking ports but the problem is, if i move them it doesnt move the whole tank-section relative to the port it just moves the docking port so the other end is just connected to "nothing". How can I level out the whole tank section?

Although I have editd the game file on other purposes before, Ii never relocated docking ports, so I do not know. However, since docking ports work in pairs I would try to find the other docking port  that connects with that one and move it the same amount. Another idea is to detach the ports, in game, relocate the port, editing game file, and then try to inch the whole structure up again, to dock. You will also have to reset the magnet, (which will imply more game file editing or a ship that's capable of pushing the whole thing back and forth.

but... Before that, I would really try to use Hyperedit, it is very easy once you get the precise coordinates where you are and where you want to relocate your base, maybe selecting different terrain slope will solve your problem. In that case I suggest you have some reaction wheels attached to the base so that you can position it while landing.

one final idea, where you would only partially, dump parts, would be to redesign only the tanker section, scrap the old one and replace for a new one... In terms of workload it seems much simpler to replace that base section, than all the other stuff.

 

[Broco]

Ye you're right, I will just replace the tank section... The facility is on flat ground, I dont think another position would be suitable. It's kinda sad but thank you nevertheless
.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Broco