New game mode - Budget

[AeroGav]

I've been puzzled by this omission and wonder if there's a mod that adds it.     We have Sandbox mode, where you have full access to everything.   You have career mode, where both science and funds are limited.   And there is science mode, where you start off with fully upgraded facilities and money is no object.

Why isn't there a fourth option, where the whole tech tree is unlocked, but you start off with a shoestring budget, the most basic facilities, and no rep, and have to build economical rockets or increase re-use, to gradually upgrade facilities, build out your space infrastructure and start putting Kerbals further and further afield.

Would reward smart vehicle design and use of SSTOs or just partially re-usable vehicles,  rather than putting you in the position of say NASA at the start of the space race, with no tech but huge resources,  it would be like a present day or near future scenario where a smaller nation that formerly had no space program decides to start exploration?

[Wjolcz]

I agree. Also tons of contracts that make you mine for stuff and bring it back safely to Kerbin. Also mineable xenon.

[tater]

I've posted about this as well, but budget also requires that time be meaningful.

[Kerbalstar]

I agree. But I have another thought is Tech Tree unlocked facilities at max and medium funds. So about where NASA is now. Maybe a difficulty setting for Budget mode.  

[swjr-swis]

Almost all you mention can already be done with a custom career: the only part missing in the settings is a higher starting science maximum to allow unlocking the entire tree from the start.

You can do this yourself by editing the savefile (or from within the game, by using the cheats menu) and giving yourself the science points needed.

[SpaceplaneAddict]

i like the above post however, I do like the idea of a game-mode with a fixed yearly budget.
Supported by the SpaceplaneFreak with full

*Determination.

[Kerbalstar]

I've done that. But it feels a little wrong. Career feels just wrong.

[Nich]

I feel any game where a budget is the main challenge is impossible to balance and no fun to play.  You are either going to be strapped for cash or the game will throw money at you depending on skill level.

Challenge get 1 kerbal orbit for free or a profit (yes this is easy with all the tech unlocked)

[SpaceplaneAddict]

1 hour ago, Nich said:

You are either going to be strapped for cash or the game will throw money at you depending on skill level.

But that's the whole challenge of it. It's like a whole new hard mode.

[Nich]

I have made you a Hard mode Budget persistence file.  

Contracts pay nothing

Most world first pay nothing

You have 10,000 starting cash.  Your mission is feet and flags on every celestial body except Joul.

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0iPRE-stt2CUGNRdkdqYlV6Tms

 

Edited April 20, 2016 by Nich

[SpaceplaneAddict]

2 minutes ago, Nich said:

I have made you a Hard mode Budget persistence file.  

Contracts pay nothing

Most world first pay nothing

You have 100,000 starting cash.  Your mission is feet and flags on every celestial body except Joul.

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0iPRE-stt2CUGNRdkdqYlV6Tms

 

Now that I think about it I probably should have given 10,000 starting kerdits :/

Budget also means you have fixed recurring revenue after a period of time

[Nich]

You have recurring revenue already ;/  Just need to find it.  Unfortunately there are no recurring cost

Never mind I just realized that save file is for 1.0.5  I am going to have to wait until I get home from vacation to 

Edited April 20, 2016 by Nich

[Wjolcz]

14 hours ago, tater said:

I've posted about this as well, but budget also requires that time be meaningful.

Well, yes. But not really.

The problem is that money is not really treated like a resource in career. At least I don't feel like it is.

I would like to see a proper tech research where you have to spend money on actually researching the parts and engines. Maybe such mechanic would make career mode a bit more budget-y. That and the program upkeep costs, of course.

[tater]

No, time needs to matter. You have an annual budget? You can easily unlock the entire tech tree with huge numbers of flights before even the first optimal Duna window happens. How can an annual budget be meaningful if Jeb has never seen a rocket before on Day 1, and by Day 40 he's prepping for a large munar base mission?

The only way to have budgets is to dole out the money for an annual budget a little at a time. Say every XX days. Add a warp button like the warp to morning that warps to the next fiscal month (say a Minmus month, which is ~50 days). 

[AeroGav]

22 hours ago, SpaceplaneAddict said:

Budget also means you have fixed recurring revenue after a period of time

Actually I wish i'd used a different name for this game mode suggestion in the thread title.  "Finance mode" etc.

I don't want an annual budget, which you could just time warp through to next payday and render it meaningless.  You should earn the cash from achievements and contracts instead.  In the same way that Career and Science modes don't just grant you free science every calendar year, you have to do things to earn it.    

You start off with a small amount of money, make a minor achievement/fulfill an unambitious contract,  use the cash generated for a slightly more ambitious next mission and so on to Eeloo/Moho.

Obviously if you find yourself stuck in low Kerbin orbit because things have gone wrong and are unable to make the next leap with cash available, you should still be able to grind out with tourist / 1 star contracts to the next step, rather than being forced to start over.  

22 hours ago, Nich said:

I have made you a Hard mode Budget persistence file.  

Contracts pay nothing

Most world first pay nothing

You have 10,000 starting cash.  Your mission is feet and flags on every celestial body except Joul.

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0iPRE-stt2CUGNRdkdqYlV6Tms

 

I did try  a custom start with minimum money and vast quantity of science, but i was unable to unlock the tech tree because i didn't have the cash to upgrade the R&D building to unlock nodes 5+. I had a load of science points i couldn't spend.

I guess I'll try again and give myself just enough cash to fully upgrade the R&D building to max level as well,  but start the game with every other building a tin shack.    Should be fun ...

[mikegarrison]

2 minutes ago, AeroGav said:

Actually I wish i'd used a different name for this game mode suggestion in the thread title.  "Finance mode" etc.

I don't want an annual budget, which you could just time warp through to next payday and render it meaningless.  You should earn the cash from achievements and contracts instead.  In the same way that Career and Science modes don't just grant you free science every calendar year, you have to do things to earn it.    

You start off with a small amount of money, make a minor achievement/fulfill an unambitious contract,  use the cash generated for a slightly more ambitious next mission and so on to Eeloo/Moho.

Obviously if you find yourself stuck in low Kerbin orbit because things have gone wrong and are unable to make the next leap with cash available, you should still be able to grind out with tourist / 1 star contracts to the next step, rather than being forced to start over.  

Basically, you're talking about a tycoon game. "Space Tycoon".

In most tycoon games, not only do you have to pay for your operations, but you usually have to generate a positive revenue stream. In most cases, they have some mechanism for pulling money from you (having to make interest payments on loans, dividends to shareholders, rents and salaries, etc.). So time is your enemy, rather than your ally. Timewarping is usually allowed, but if you are running in the red it's only going to dig you into a deep hole.

[Nich]

5 minutes ago, AeroGav said:

Actually I wish i'd used a different name for this game mode suggestion in the thread title.  "Finance mode" etc.

I don't want an annual budget, which you could just time warp through to next payday and render it meaningless.  You should earn the cash from achievements and contracts instead.  In the same way that Career and Science modes don't just grant you free science every calendar year, you have to do things to earn it.    

You start off with a small amount of money, make a minor achievement/fulfill an unambitious contract,  use the cash generated for a slightly more ambitious next mission and so on to Eeloo/Moho.

Obviously if you find yourself stuck in low Kerbin orbit because things have gone wrong and are unable to make the next leap with cash available, you should still be able to grind out with tourist / 1 star contracts to the next step, rather than being forced to start over.  

I did try  a custom start with minimum money and vast quantity of science, but i was unable to unlock the tech tree because i didn't have the cash to upgrade the R&D building to unlock nodes 5+. I had a load of science points i couldn't spend.

I guess I'll try again and give myself just enough cash to fully upgrade the R&D building to max level as well,  but start the game with every other building a tin shack.    Should be fun ...

alt-F12 menu will let you max out science with a low level research center.

[Alshain]

I've suggested this before as well.  Basically a Funds only mode, I find unlocking the tech tree annoying and tedious.

[tater]

2 minutes ago, Alshain said:

I've suggested this before as well.  Basically a Funds only mode, I find unlocking the tech tree annoying and tedious.

I'd prefer to see a budget of Funds, AND science points. Add in a tech tree like ETT, then you have 2 budgets, money, and research. The tree would also require Funds. Then you unlock what you think you need for what you want to do---you develop tech to achieve a goal, instead of the opposite.

[Alshain]

2 minutes ago, tater said:

I'd prefer to see a budget of Funds, AND science points. Add in a tech tree like ETT, then you have 2 budgets, money, and research. The tree would also require Funds. Then you unlock what you think you need for what you want to do---you develop tech to achieve a goal, instead of the opposite.

Well, that isn't what I want at all.  I basically want science unlocks gone without me having to max out the starting science and click through it all, and then use funds to unlock new parts instead.   Basically the mix between sandbox and career that we don't have available now.

[tater]

Yeah, that works, too.