Do you see the pattern?

[rkman]

19 minutes ago, severedsolo said:

The update policy is what it is.

It changes to. Current policy produces a lot of unhappy customers.

[Guest]

I feel Squad is getting a raw deal by some users unreasonable complaints, I for one am happy with the improvements Squad has made, yes sure there are still problems, but unfortunately that's software development for you. I have not experienced anything that is to bad it makes KSP unplayable. Reminds me of the forums in the early days of X-Plane 10, many users complaining, about broken mods etc every update, then in the next thread wanting more shiny new updates. Give Squad a break, also thanks to those who actually contribute to my enjoyment of KSP by constantly updating and writing mods.

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”. - John Lydgate

[RandomUser]

For the glitchy releases I can agree, but in terms of a pattern in the members leaving, I wouldn't call it unusual.  Being quite involved in game design myself (level design, etc.), I know that most members of a team usually will either wait until a milestone or finish their work, and leave at said milestone, being the updates, though that isn't always the case. 

The new recent release has been exceptionally buggy though, seeming fine in the pre-release, but somehow being further glitched at the final release.  If this were an Early Access game, I could perhaps overlook that.  Kerbal Space Program however, is no longer an Early Access game, and is a fully released product.  With a fully released product, you should give the customer some guarantee of it working as was expected.  1.1.x seems to not be the case, so far.  This is one of the larger problems with this.  I myself haven't experienced some of the bugs that many of the other KSP players have, except for the common landing gear/landing leg glitches. 

Also, is it just me, or are these releases getting more laggy?  In the pre-release, I could have a massive space station and still hit around 40-50FPS, maybe even 60, but now my relatively small space station (last one had modded parts and was deleted) is somehow lagging the game more so than I would expect. 

Anyway, that's just my two cents on the discussion. 

[qromodynmc]

Dont get me wrong but, i think you guys overreacting or overexaggerating about bugs thingy.

Im playing this game since 0.18, i never had truly gamebreaking bugs, there were some problems but none of them was real gamebreaker. Bugs are expected but, dunno.

[Jarin]

Just now, qromodynmc said:

Dont get me wrong but, i think you guys overreacting or overexaggerating about bugs thingy.

Im playing this game since 0.18, i never had truly gamebreaking bugs, there were some problems but none of them was real gamebreaker. Bugs are expected but, dunno.

Lucky you? I haven't had two hours without CTD since 1.1 with or without mods.

[HoloYolo]

1 minute ago, Jarin said:

Lucky you? I haven't had two hours without CTD since 1.1 with or without mods.

Might just be your computer. Have you tried 64-bit?

[Jarin]

1 minute ago, HoloYolo said:

Might just be your computer. Have you tried 64-bit?

Yup. Runs great when it isn't crashing while building or staging. No crash report half the time either.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Jarin

[HoloYolo]

Just now, Jarin said:

Yup. Runs great when it isn't crashing while building or staging. No crash report half the time either.

I have had no problems with building and staging and I have almost pressed the memory limit with 64-bit. Damn, I guess I'm a part of the lucky few.

[Jarin]

1 minute ago, HoloYolo said:

I have had no problems with building and staging and I have almost pressed the memory limit with 64-bit. Damn, I guess I'm a part of the lucky few.

That seems to be the biggest issue. Most of the remaining bugs are inconsistent, I suspect Squad is was having trouble reproducing them, so opted to put it off 'till later.

[Kerbart]

45 minutes ago, godefroi said:

There is no difference between a patch and an update. They're two words for the same process. Regardless of what you call it, code changed, was recompiled, and released to the customers. If a specific mod depended on the exact implementation of the code that changed, then the mod will be broken.

I respectfully disagree. Squad seems to respectfully disagree. After all, we're now at version 1.1.2, not at version 1.8 which, if patches were updates, we'd be at right now. And yet we're at 1.1.2. That tells me something; it's a patch, not an update.

45 minutes ago, godefroi said:

Squad is under no obligation to maintain backwards compatibility for mods no matter how minor the change.

You're missing the point. Call it a patch. Call it an update. Call it a "Spongebob does a dance with Squidward." Of course Squad has no obligation to maintain backwards compatibility. In fact, Squad has no obligation to release any "Spongebob does a dance with Squidwards" at all. The point is that these dances are rushed and released prematurely. Squad comes out with the 1.1.1 dance. Fine. And within a day a 1.1.2 dance is released, changing in-game mechanics to such a point that certain mods break.

I can see releasing a 1.1 with a statement "beware, there be bugs." I can see releasing a 1.1.1 with "yeah, we kinda rushed 1.1 and that was silly, here are some fixes for the issues we should have fixed first before releasing". I can even see releasing a 1.1.2 with "whoops, we mispelled the word 'premature' in the KSPedia"

The problem is not 1.1.2 breaking mods. The problem is that we have a super-rushed patch to fix a rushed patch to fix a rushed release, and the fact that it's breaking things at a pretty low level does not foster a warm fuzzy feeling of Squad trying to spoil us with the best they can deliver, but rather a panicked team, clueless of what they're doing, and kicking out untested patches to the world. I don't think Squad reserves a reputation like that, and I don't think the KSP community deserves software like that.

[Guest]

True Jarin, a lot of problems maybe due to some users computers and KSP settings. Who knows....................:)

I also have no real issues with KSP on my small laptop and desktop, Runs great.

 

Edited May 1, 2016 by m-theory

[godefroi]

20 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

I respectfully disagree. Squad seems to respectfully disagree. After all, we're now at version 1.1.2, not at version 1.8 which, if patches were updates, we'd be at right now. And yet we're at 1.1.2. That tells me something; it's a patch, not an update.

You're assigning meaning to the numbers where there isn't any. Squad doesn't (strictly) follow SemVer, so you can't derive any information at all from any of the components of the version number. We're at 1.1.2 because Squad thought that would be a nice number for where we're at now.

All the people who couldn't launch (or land) a rocket in 1.1.0 or 1.1.1 and who can now do not agree that 1.1.2 was rushed.

[NovaSilisko]

19 minutes ago, m-theory said:

True Jarin, a lot of problems maybe due to some users computers and KSP settings. Who knows....................:)

I also have no real issues with KSP on my small laptop and desktop, Runs great.

Er... congratulations? That doesn't change the fact that a lot of other people are in fact having lots of issues. You can't just blame it on their computers or game settings - that's not fair to them.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, NovaSilisko said:

Er... congratulations? That doesn't change the fact that a lot of other people are in fact having lots of issues. You can't just blame it on their computers or game settings - that's not fair to them.

Fair enough, anyway I'm off to the mun.

[HoloYolo]

2 minutes ago, NovaSilisko said:

Er... congratulations? That doesn't change the fact that a lot of other people are in fact having lots of issues. You can't just blame it on their computers or game settings - that's not fair to them.

Nova, may I ask why it isn't fair? They should know when their computer starts to go out of date and games start to be unplayable.

[NovaSilisko]

4 minutes ago, HoloYolo said:

Nova, may I ask why it isn't fair? They should know when their computer starts to go out of date and games start to be unplayable.

Well, there are of course specific cases where that is indeed the case and I do agree that if you're still running a 12 year old windows XP machine, you shouldn't harbor any expectations for KSP to work very well, but the post in question felt like it was just dismissing everyone having issues as just having computer problems, and that they were therefore of no concern.

Edited May 1, 2016 by NovaSilisko

[HoloYolo]

Just now, NovaSilisko said:

Well, there are of course specific cases where that is indeed the case and I do agree that if you're still running a 12 year old windows XP machine, you shouldn't harbor any expectations for KSP to work very well, but the post in question felt like it was just dismissing everyone having issues as just having computer problems, and therefore were of no concern.

Makes sense. Thank you.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, NovaSilisko said:

Well, there are of course specific cases where that is indeed the case and I do agree that if you're still running a 12 year old windows XP machine, you shouldn't harbor any expectations for KSP to work very well, but the post in question felt like it was just dismissing everyone having issues as just having computer problems, and therefore were of no concern.

I (the post in question) was not dismissing everyone having issues as having computer problems..............just a few

[NovaSilisko]

Just now, m-theory said:

I (the post in question) was not dismissing everyone having issues as having computer problems..............just a few

Even still, it's better to find the details of each specific case before dismissing anyone's issues - some can definitely be dismissed quickly as local computer issues/mod issues, but plenty of times it can turn out to be a bug that's just difficult to reproduce or something ephemeral that only comes up due to a bizarre set of interlocking circumstances.

[Jarin]

9 minutes ago, HoloYolo said:

Nova, may I ask why it isn't fair? They should know when their computer starts to go out of date and games start to be unplayable.

Very up-to-date computer. Patched-up windows 10 pro with recent hardware.

[J.Random]

1 hour ago, Arsonide said:

Unfortunately the underlying issues in this instance require a Unity upgrade that will take time. In the mean time, we wanted to improve the stability of wheels for you guys, and the fix has been very effective at doing so in testing. It is a temporary measure while we do address the underlying issues. When it is no longer necessary, it will be removed.

Fair enough. But it was known prior to release, wasn't it? Wheels were tested in every prerelease build, issues were reported, and yet you (not personally, of course) decided to release instead of saying "screw it, guys, here's what's wrong with this version of Unity, we're upgrading again and/or rebuilding our wheels" and keeping it in development. That's the whole point of this thread: why the rush? Are you late for something?

[HoloYolo]

1 minute ago, J.Random said:

Fair enough. But it was known prior to release, wasn't it? Wheels were tested in every prerelease build, issues were reported, and yet you (not personally, of course) decided to release instead of saying "screw it, guys, here's what's wrong with this version of Unity, we're upgrading again and/or rebuilding our wheels" and keeping it in development. That's the whole point of this thread: why the rush? Are you late for something?

They rushed it because we wanted the update. 1.1.1. and 1.1.2 fixed most of the problems. It was better to rush and patch than take 2 more months to smooth it all out.

[qromodynmc]

1 hour ago, Jarin said:

Lucky you? I haven't had two hours without CTD since 1.1 with or without mods.

Lucky me or maybe unlucky you. I recommend you to try ksp on different computer, maybe one of your friends, problem could be system related.

[Waxing_Kibbous]

24 minutes ago, HoloYolo said:

Nova, may I ask why it isn't fair? They should know when their computer starts to go out of date and games start to be unplayable.

There have been quite a few instances of people having issues, eg CTD, and have decent hardware- i7's, dedicated GPU, lots of RAM. There is something that isn't playing well somewhere. Honestly, it's perfectly reasonable to make players with older rigs turn down settings in order to play, and KSP's system requirements are pretty low. The current version feels unpolished and unoptimized IMO, personally I'm going to stick with 1.05 for a bit until the dust settles.

[Jarin]

5 minutes ago, qromodynmc said:

Lucky me or maybe unlucky you. I recommend you to try ksp on different computer, maybe one of your friends, problem could be system related.

Because the support forum isn't full of people with similar issues. But no, I'm sure it's entirely my computer.