Game Concept Burning in my head [Need Help]

[ZooNamedGames]

8 minutes ago, CliftonM said:

@ZooNamedGames - I'd be perfectly willing to teach you the fundamentals of programming, and then Unity.

Well currently I'm going to need an inspirational pep talk since the more I look at my life the more I realize I'm more of a "leadership" person than a "brains" kind of guy. I'm great at managing things and spear heading concepts but things like language (coding included in this broad category) and mathematics don't come easy to me (I literally have a mental condition that states I suck at math (Dyscalculia)), but creativity and managing does.

Maybe I'm just unlucky that way, having so much creativity and the mind wired for leading rather than working. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Maybe I'm just unlucky that way, having so much creativity and the mind wired for leading rather than working. 

Or maybe you're lucky.  If you want, I'd be fine with working on the project if that's something you'd want.

[ZooNamedGames]

59 minutes ago, CliftonM said:

Or maybe you're lucky.  If you want, I'd be fine with working on the project if that's something you'd want.

Sure, and id love that  . Someone else mentioned that having someone solely direct is hard for the coder since the one directing may not be aware of technical limitations but I'm usually good about avoiding those issues and being aware of them (I may not know HOW to code, but I know how they work and their limitations). So let's take this up on skype  .

[Camacha]

5 hours ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Well currently I'm going to need an inspirational pep talk since the more I look at my life the more I realize I'm more of a "leadership" person than a "brains" kind of guy. I'm great at managing things and spear heading concepts but things like language (coding included in this broad category) and mathematics don't come easy to me (I literally have a mental condition that states I suck at math (Dyscalculia)), but creativity and managing does.

Maybe I'm just unlucky that way, having so much creativity and the mind wired for leading rather than working. 

All right, I feel it is my duty to burst the bubble here. In the most friendly way possible, mind you What you are describing is infamous "the idea guy", known and loathed in the creative industries. That is a function that does not exist, and often means that someone has good ideas, but does not want to spend the time to develop the skills to back those ideas up. Ideas are only part of the story. Making something happen is mostly hard work, and few good ideas. 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. The linked articles do a pretty good job explaining why you need more than just ideas and "leadership".

Of course, when you speak of leadership, there are producers and managers too. Those guys are pretty much professional leaders, right? Managers and producers fall into a couple of categories. First you have the folks that used to be hands on, and grew into a managing position. Those are arguably the best, providing they have people skills too, because they have perfect grasp on what goes into a project and what problems you might find. They used to be the folks creating things themselves and have hard skills to back up their ideas and convince others of those ideas. Then you have the managers and/or producers by trade. These guys can work out well, as long as they realize they are good at managing and not at creative work. They will provide the creative folks with the very best environment they can muster to do their thing, while taking all the other tasks and chores off their hands. That way, the creative folks can spend all their energy on what they do best. Finally you have the managers from hell, ones that try to meddle with all the things they have no experience with. Those are bound to cause a lot of anger and dissent, and a terrible end-product to boot.

Having someone say he is made for leading rather than working raises a plethora of red flags. Leading and creative work are generally mutually exclusive, unless you grew into leadership from the creative pool yourself. It also seems to strongly imply that leading is not working. That would be a grave misunderstanding. Leading is incredibly hard work. Not only are you responsible for keeping everyone working at peak performance and keeping everyone happy, but you also have the responsibility for the well-being of all your team members. If you fail, everyone fails, and you will be the only one to blame. Do you know what bothers most owners of companies that go bankrupt the most? Having to tell their employees they cannot provide for their families any more. That is what you are responsible for, and it is a hell of a pressure to have to deal with. Instead of having to worry about just yourself, you have to worry about everyone. Not to mention that proper leading takes a lot of experience, making mistakes and doing things a little bit better every time. Even most great leaders in history have had to develop their skills, slowly shaping themselves into the people we know from the history books.

So, without wanting to sound harsh, I feel you might be deceiving yourself by telling yourself what you are and are not. You have not even tried programming, so how do you know you would not make a half-decent programmer? If you never get started and truly give it your best, you can tell yourself anything, but it would always be a fantasy.

Finally, very few people call themselves working people instead of creative or leading people. We work because we have a dream and a goal we want to achieve. Skills are always hard-won, whether it is programming, playing an instrument, painting or leading people, but we apply ourselves and push through because we can see that light at the end of the tunnel.

4 hours ago, ZooNamedGames said:

 (I may not know HOW to code, but I know how they work and their limitations).

That makes little sense. If you do not know how to code (in whatever language), you do not know what goes into the projected game and what the limitations might be.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Camacha

[ZooNamedGames]

58 minutes ago, Camacha said:

All right, I feel it is my duty to burst the bubble here. In the most friendly way possible, mind you What you are describing is infamous "the idea guy", known and loathed in the creative industries. That is a function that does not exist, and often means that someone has good ideas, but does not want to spend the time to develop the skills to back those ideas up. Ideas are only part of the story. Making something happen is mostly hard work, and few good ideas. 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. The linked articles do a pretty good job explaining why you need more than just ideas and "leadership".

Of course, when you speak of leadership, there are producers and managers too. Those guys are pretty much professional leaders, right? Managers and producers fall into a couple of categories. First you have the folks that used to be hands on, and grew into a managing position. Those are arguably the best, providing they people skills too, because they have perfect grasp on what goes into a project and what problems you might find. They used to be the folks creating things themselves and have hard skills to back up their ideas and convince others of those ideas. Then you have the managers and/or producers by trade. These guys can work out well, as long as they realize they are good at managing and not at creative work. They will provide the creative folks with the very best environment they can muster to do their thing, while taking all the other tasks and chores off their hands. That way, the creative folks can spend all their energy on what they do best. Finally you have the managers from hell, ones that try to meddle with all the things they have no experience with. Those are bound to cause a lot of anger and dissent, and a terrible end-product to boot.

Having someone say he is made for leading rather than working raises a plethora of red flags. Leading and creative work are generally mutually exclusive, unless you grew into leadership from the creative pool yourself. It also seems to strongly imply that leading is not working. That would be a grave misunderstanding. Leading is incredibly hard work. Not only are you responsible for keeping everyone working at peak performance and keeping everyone happy, but you also have the responsibility for the well-being of all your team members. If you fail, everyone fails, and you will be the only one to blame. Do you know what bothers most owners of companies that go bankrupt? Having to tell their employees they cannot provide for their families any more. That is what you are responsible for, and it is a hell of a pressure to have to deal with. Instead of having to worry about just yourself, you have to worry about everyone. Not to mention that proper leading takes a lot of experience, making mistakes and doing thing a little bit better every time. Even most great leaders in history have had to develop their skills, slowly shaping themselves into the people we know from the history books.

So, without wanting to sound harsh, I feel you might be deceiving yourself by telling yourself what you are and are not. You have not even tried programming, so how do you know you would not make a half-decent programmer? If you never get started and truly give it your best, you can tell yourself anything, but it would always be a fantasy.

Finally, very few people call themselves working people instead of creative or leading people. We work because we have a dream and a goal we want to achieve. Skills are always hard-won, whether it is programming, playing an instrument, painting or leading people, but we apply ourselves and push through because we can see that light at the end of the tunnel.

That makes little sense. If you do not know how to code (in whatever language), you do not know what goes into the projected game and what the limitations might be.

I'm more managerial, and I don't meddle. Ask anyone I've cooperated with professionally or else, I know that the best work is done by those who are more skilled in the area. If I have a good idea, I'll pitch it to them, but ultimately if they say it's silly/unneeded/etc I'll listen since they know better than I could. I also have always been regarded (usually) a decent person and (ironically) a very sociable person (ironic considering the autism mentioned earlier), so I can lead and be a people person.

Management is in itself, it's own line of work. Managing what people do, when, why, and how. I obviously wouldn't lead something I don't know about, so me running the Real Space Program is fitting considering I've read up on a lot of what NASA did in the early days and analyzed it in my spare time and saw what we're good decisions at the time and what they could of done differently.

Be careful pushing my personal life buttons since I break very easily. Again as I said, I wouldn't lead what I wouldn't know about already. And as to your last comment, it's the same as me and geometry and astrophysics. I failed basic HS geometry twice yet calculating how to make a maneuver to slingshot around the moon in RSS is easy (it's a pain in the butt, even though it's easy).

So trust me, your harshness isn't nearly as bad as I am to myself (however it does give me more negative fodder). I'm recovering from depression and what I personally predict, it'll be a long time before I recover from it (if I do). So that's why I quit easily and too be frank, even when I would learn the skill, I would be cheaply mediocre at best. Everything I could do would be looked over for more "impressive" work. 

And as to my dreams, well, simply put, I learned at a young age that Disney movies that tell you to "follow your dreams" were full of lies. 90% of people who do follow they're dreams end up falling short. So instead of metaphorically falling short of my dreams, I'll just walk the distance and end up missing them like everyone else and not be as badly hurt. (Yeah... You start to see my depression here)

[Ten Key]

43 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

90% of people who do follow they're dreams end up falling short. 

Yep. So what?

Dreams are inherently unrealistic endeavors -- they provide motivation, not an end goal. A few people, through luck or sheer stubborn will power manage to hammer their dreams into existence. Sometimes it works out for them. Sometimes it doesn't. But for most of us, we put in the time and effort only to realize our dreams are flawed in one way or another. So we let those dreams go and move on, but that doesn't mean the effort was wasted.

Life is a never ending carousel of opportunities that come at you from odd directions in fits and starts. Sometimes you see them coming, and sometimes you don't. But chasing dreams. . .not just dreaming about them, but really chasing them. . .gives you the skills you need to grab those opportunities as they come around. 

You can't learn without screwing up, life just doesn't work that way. 

[ZooNamedGames]

6 minutes ago, Ten Key said:

Yep. So what?

Dreams are inherently unrealistic endeavors -- they provide motivation, not an end goal. A few people, through luck or sheer stubborn will power manage to hammer their dreams into existence. Sometimes it works out for them. Sometimes it doesn't. But for most of us, we put in the time and effort only to realize our dreams are flawed in one way or another. So we let those dreams go and move on, but that doesn't mean the effort was wasted.

Life is a never ending carousel of opportunities that come at you from odd directions in fits and starts. Sometimes you see them coming, and sometimes you don't. But chasing dreams. . .not just dreaming about them, but really chasing them. . .gives you the skills you need to grab those opportunities as they come around. 

You can't learn without screwing up, life just doesn't work that way. 

Well it seems I've missed most of my opportunitities. I just want to erase the last 15 years or so and do better. I know it's impossible and I should move on but the problems I made for myself persist every day. Ah well, if I'm lucky, within 10 years I'll accept mediocrity with a smile.

[mart]

What can I say, autism sucks. No offense intended as I'm diagnosed with autism myself. Heck, didn't even know it until I changed to the 15th or so job, the 20th or so depression and so on.

Yeah, erasing the first 15 years (make that 20 please) would be nice.

I sucked at math too. So people said "you will never become a programmer". But I did. Problem is, for me it took just that bit harder to master. It didn't come naturally. Didn't like schools and stuff, so I self educated. Even read some books, though I hate that (reminds me of learning). After some time though I finally became that programmer companies wanted to hire. My autism was kind of blurred because I could hop from job to job. They wanted me...

Eventually though I kind of collapsed, the 30th or so depression was too much. Unable to work for 2 years now and I don't think I'll ever program again. Done it for 20 or so years. Think I was working hard to 'fit in' be like the other ones, know as much as the next guy.

You can learn how to program. You can be a good programmer too. And if you are remotely like me you appreciate home scholing, self education, a friend who leads the way. And if you find those ways you'll eventually get there I'm sure.

Bottom line ... Eh where was I going with this. Ah crap, just giving a little support as I know the pains of life being "a little different than the rest".

You know I've had the same "dream". I had the game I want boiling inside for more than 20 years. The first steps in programming were focused on coding that particular game. Never succeeded in finishing it. I also looked for that particular friend that would lead the way show me the ropes and code with me. Never find him (or her). Coding a game takes a lot of different kind of talents all put together. And though I have some of everything in me, it's just impossible to do alone. And finding the right support and people, well never worked for me.

 

[ZooNamedGames]

1 hour ago, mart said:

What can I say, autism sucks. No offense intended as I'm diagnosed with autism myself. Heck, didn't even know it until I changed to the 15th or so job, the 20th or so depression and so on.

Yeah, erasing the first 15 years (make that 20 please) would be nice.

I sucked at math too. So people said "you will never become a programmer". But I did. Problem is, for me it took just that bit harder to master. It didn't come naturally. Didn't like schools and stuff, so I self educated. Even read some books, though I hate that (reminds me of learning). After some time though I finally became that programmer companies wanted to hire. My autism was kind of blurred because I could hop from job to job. They wanted me...

Eventually though I kind of collapsed, the 30th or so depression was too much. Unable to work for 2 years now and I don't think I'll ever program again. Done it for 20 or so years. Think I was working hard to 'fit in' be like the other ones, know as much as the next guy.

You can learn how to program. You can be a good programmer too. And if you are remotely like me you appreciate home scholing, self education, a friend who leads the way. And if you find those ways you'll eventually get there I'm sure.

Bottom line ... Eh where was I going with this. Ah crap, just giving a little support as I know the pains of life being "a little different than the rest".

You know I've had the same "dream". I had the game I want boiling inside for more than 20 years. The first steps in programming were focused on coding that particular game. Never succeeded in finishing it. I also looked for that particular friend that would lead the way show me the ropes and code with me. Never find him (or her). Coding a game takes a lot of different kind of talents all put together. And though I have some of everything in me, it's just impossible to do alone. And finding the right support and people, well never worked for me.

 

Well if I begin to understand then at least it's something. Admittedly I'm "too young" to know what's important but yet I know that the rest of my life is impacted by what I've done now. I can safely say I've totally screwed my life up.

[Camacha]

15 hours ago, Ten Key said:

You can't learn without screwing up, life just doesn't work that way. 

I both agree and disagree You cannot learn without making mistakes, but the only way to really screw up and fail is to give up before you even tried. Even if your game never sees the light of day, the things you have learned will help you in ways you could have never imagined. Developing skills always pays off, even if the project fails miserably.

1 hour ago, mart said:

I sucked at math too. So people said "you will never become a programmer". But I did. Problem is, for me it took just that bit harder to master. It didn't come naturally. Didn't like schools and stuff, so I self educated. Even read some books, though I hate that (reminds me of learning). After some time though I finally became that programmer companies wanted to hire. My autism was kind of blurred because I could hop from job to job. They wanted me...

Eventually though I kind of collapsed, the 30th or so depression was too much. Unable to work for 2 years now and I don't think I'll ever program again. Done it for 20 or so years. Think I was working hard to 'fit in' be like the other ones, know as much as the next guy.

 

There are actually companies now that actively seek out autistic people, due to their innate ability to see things a little differently. Rather than having to hide the limitations that autism can bring, the benefits are celebrated. Being different means having a benefit over others, if the difference is employed in a smart way.