Combining Science and Engineering

[DChurchill]

I've seen discussions like this in the past, but I thought I'd float it again now that I've had a chance to play 1.1 pretty extensively.

Before taking a long hiatus, since .22 I think, the tech tree was new so I figured it would have matured more in the interim, but not really. I see some tech tree mods, but my thinking was more how it works in general. I'm not thinking about a drastic overhaul, but just adding some logical steps between: Take look at magic goo -> unlock node - acquire new parts which have nothing to do with magic goo -> profit. It's like somehow using your sword alot makes you a better pickpocket, if you follow me.

I'm suggesting adding specific science experiment milestones to unlock specific nodes. Like maybe temperature and pressure measurements before you can unlock a more advanced jet engine. But that's not all, you could only unlock a prototype of that engine until you put x amount of time in with said prototype. Those prototypes might be more inefficient and/or more prone to malfunctions that the final part. You wouldn't even have to create adding any additional parts models. Also, it could be completely, or almost so, agnostic of parts packs and so on. An engine has these particular prototype characteristics, an solar panel this other set. Add in the possibility of failures and malfunctions, this would also give the little green engineers more to do.

Now, ultimately, you'd want to somehow incorporate something like @DMagic fantastic science pack or the TST chem cam and telescopes from @JPLRepo, or the available experiments to unlock nodes might get a little repetitive. There's only so much you can do with 4 stock science experiments.

Does something like this exist now? What would it take to make this work?

[Kerbonaut257]

I am liking this idea. Don't know if you've played stellaris, but they have 3 separate resarch trees, one is like high-tech stuff, one is engineering, and one is biological research. And I feel like KSP could have a couple areas like "atmospheric research" which would lead to upgrades in wings, air breathing engines, fuselages, fairings, etc. "space research" which leads to upgrades in fuels, engines, solar panels, electricity generation, etc. and then maybe "Celestial body research" which leads to advances in landing gear, habitation modules, long range space exploration (nuclear engines), etc.

 

And the way you would do research would be following applicable contracts in those types of situations. So maybe flying a plane and landing it to the island airport would advance that section, and sending a probe outside the atmosphere would advance the space research.

 

And many parts would require a certain level of multiple nodes, for example the RAPIER engine would require an advanced level of tech in atmospheric, and also an advanced amount of tech in space research as well.

 

I dunno. I would much rather have parts unlocked contractually than through spending science points. Though I think ACTUAL science points could be used to upgrade parts. Like making parachutes and control wings for rockets cheaper, or lighter, or things like that. This is why I love Kerbal R&D mod, because it gives science points a value beyond just unlocking parts.

 

And unlocking parts could be done through test contracts with sub-normal test parts. Like maybe to unlock the swivel, you first have to use a crappy version of the swivel to get to space, and then that unlocks the regular part from then on.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Kerbonaut257

[DChurchill]

My thinking is that it would take specific science to unlock a node, then the parts in that node would then become prototypes. The idea of levels of specific types of science being required to unlock a node would fit, too, I suppose, but it might leave out the idea that you have to go get some specific science related to what you want to unlock. Like I already have level 5 in x and y so that means I get to unlock the Rapier without doing anything specific for the rapier node.

I think you could do this as an addon to the existing way the whole tech tree works, without the need to add a whole new mechanic of different science types. I don't know thee guts of how it actually works, other than paying to flip a locked bit on a node with generic science points, so my logic might be inherently flawed. But I'm thinking you might be able to add a list of acceptable science experiments that could unlock that node. Like the temperature and pressure experiments to unlock the jet engine. You'd need a file to keep track of that progress but whatever nodes that are still locked get a completed science experiment in their list of acceptable science, then the gauge gets that much closer to full. When it fills up, then it's considered unlocked, instead of just using generic science to unlock it. And until the required precursor nodes are unlocked, science will not accumulate for that node. So there's always a need for ongoing specific science.

Once it unlocks, then the engineers take over with the prototypes. Once that part gets enough in flight testing, the bugs are considered worked out and it changes from prototype to operational. At that point it's just like it normally would be.

I think that writing some sort of failure code might be the sticking point.

Edited June 2, 2016 by DChurchill

[wasml]

I saw a very similar suggestion a few months ago - don't have the link. But they were suggesting the cost for the prototype would be higher - bring the price down (and refining the part?) would come through use. Would also allow you to advance on more than one front at a time.

6 hours ago, DChurchill said:

I think that writing some sort of failure code might be the sticking point.

Or maybe improve the spec's a bit as it's refined.

 

I like the idea.

[DChurchill]

2 hours ago, wasml said:

Or maybe improve the spec's a bit as it's refined.

In the event that you couldn't get the failure code to work right, that would work. Or even if you could, make the failures a parameter. Have them or don't.

Anyone with any KSP modding experience with the tech tree maybe weigh in on the feasibility of this?