We are losing Squad Staff!

[pandaman]

Actually the title of this thread is misleading, they may have ceased to work on KSP, but they are not (as far as I know) "LOST".  I'm sure someone knows where they are, they just haven't told us yet.

[Frybert]

I knew we should have given them better maps.

[Spartwo]

They've got the max maps they could've brought. They're fine.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Spartwo

[Kerbart]

15 hours ago, JJE64 said:

You guys have it all wrong.  

Microsoft has bought the rights to KSP (...)  Maybe in the next few weeks, you'll come onto the forum to see the big announcement (a la minecraft) that Microsoft has taken over the game, and how great it will be having a big production house pouring resources into development.  It all fits.

My work here is done.  Discuss and enjoy.

Oh boy, this warrants its own thread. I might start one

I can only imagine the horrors of Microsoft Space Program™:

• Clippy: It appears you're trying to launch a rocket. Would you like me to trigger the first stage for you?
• Twelve times per day a popup: You're still using MSP 1.0.5 Click 'OK' to upgrade to 1.1.2 [OK] (note the lack of a "cancel" button)
• EVA's are only possible in Microsoft Space Program Professional, Enterprise Editition

[herbal space program]

These folks leaving by itself says nothing, but it's also clear that the game has reached a major creative crossroads where the decision to mount a  large new development effort in house, sell the game to somebody who will, or call it done and walk away is looming ever closer on the horizon. Although getting it to work right has to be the top priority, if they don't do something to expand the scope of the game fairly soon, a lot of people are going to start losing interest. With that writing on the wall for all to see, things like HarvesteR and some other important people calling it quits will naturally get all of us here in the peanut gallery speculating. I personally hope they decide to keep working on the game and hire the people they'll need to take it to the next step, but if Squad isn't really dedicated to a future as a game developer, then maybe selling out would be the best thing for all concerned. As long as it's not to Microsoft!

[Moesly_Armlis]

16 hours ago, JJE64 said:

Microsoft has bought the rights to KSP so they can develop it as part of their Hololens empire

Wait.  Prank day was a few months ago.

[kiwi1960]

On 10/06/2016 at 8:08 AM, KasperVld said:

As a lot of people have already stated, this sort of thing often happens when large, long duration projects (such as KSP) hit a new major milestone. I have much respect for both Felipe and Dan for sticking with us over the past year while developing 1.1, and not leaving the team midway through. It's never a good time, but there are definitely worse times to leave. I can't wait to see what they'll come up with next as both are incredibly talented people who no doubt will bring enjoyment to many people in the future.

As for KSP, we have grown a lot over the past year(s), and so has the team. We have plenty of ideas for KSP in the future

 

But are they good ideas? New blood is always good...

[CG_Kerbin]

On 6/10/2016 at 8:05 PM, Spartwo said:

They've got the max maps they could've brought. They're fine.

IF ONLY THEY'D RAISED THE LEVEL CAP, FOOLS...! 

(sorry about caps)

[wumpus]

On 6/10/2016 at 3:54 PM, herbal space program said:

These folks leaving by itself says nothing, but it's also clear that the game has reached a major creative crossroads where the decision to mount a  large new development effort in house, sell the game to somebody who will, or call it done and walk away is looming ever closer on the horizon. Although getting it to work right has to be the top priority, if they don't do something to expand the scope of the game fairly soon, a lot of people are going to start losing interest. With that writing on the wall for all to see, things like HarvesteR and some other important people calling it quits will naturally get all of us here in the peanut gallery speculating. I personally hope they decide to keep working on the game and hire the people they'll need to take it to the next step, but if Squad isn't really dedicated to a future as a game developer, then maybe selling out would be the best thing for all concerned. As long as it's not to Microsoft!

KSP as a space simulation with little green men may well be complete.  There are always new parts to be designed, but note that things have been steadily leaning to spaceplanes lately (although there are the obvious lack of liquid fuel "rocket shaped" tanks above 1.75m).  I suspect that this was one of the reasons that HarvesteR left (moving on to Unity 5 was the last big push it needed, although I still whine about the VAB GUI).

KSP as a game (namely career mode) is pretty broken.  It really needs a game designer who understands that he is pretty much stuck with the existing structure, and has to somehow build a game where nothing  was really planned.  This is really a nasty situation which pretty much isn't going to attract the experience it needs: look to mod designers of other games.  I guess my first options would be for mod designers who did things like fix the Oblivion leveling system (although that example is far too ancient for the applicants you are looking for).

Even then career mode would probably make some really hard decisions.  KSP as is (particularly "as HarvesteR insisted on leaving it") makes the current career mode make sense: launching things to even moons is hard unless you have the delta-v of your rocket (manually or through KE).  Similarly, launching to other planets requires outrageous delta-v (which of course you don't know anyway...) unless you can roughly compute a launch window (note that simply knowing the right angles between planets works well enough, but this either requires tedious experiments in sandbox or somebody telling you the "correct" angle).  These issues almost certainly lead to a "career mode" that involves grinding (and grinding, and grinding) around Kerbol until you finally decide to head out to Duna and beyond (see the entire thread about "do most KSP players ever leave the Kerbol system).

It doesn't require a sell off to Microsoft.  It does take a careful decision to hire someone in overall charge of the game.  Presumably someone capable of game design and at least enough knowledge of software to avoid damaging what HarvesteR wrought softwarewise.

Finally, the whole idea that Squad still needs to drive the game forward seems wrong.  Squad *did* do one critical thing that no modder could do: port to Unity 5 (and allow more physics threads in use).  From here on out I suspect that there will be more [simulation] improvement to the game via mods than from Squad.  I suspect this has been true since something like 0.25, but that is simply the mark of a great game that fires the imagination of the community, and not any lack on Squad's part.  I'd say the console ports are what KSP really wants to drive up interest: they are at least at the "playable demo stage" well before 1.1 dropped.

[herbal space program]

2 hours ago, wumpus said:

Finally, the whole idea that Squad still needs to drive the game forward seems wrong.  Squad *did* do one critical thing that no modder could do: port to Unity 5 (and allow more physics threads in use).  From here on out I suspect that there will be more [simulation] improvement to the game via mods than from Squad.  I suspect this has been true since something like 0.25, but that is simply the mark of a great game that fires the imagination of the community, and not any lack on Squad's part.  I'd say the console ports are what KSP really wants to drive up interest: they are at least at the "playable demo stage" well before 1.1 dropped.

Well that's a pretty depressing take on the game. If all they think they want to do is port it to Xbox so they can get more players of what they have now, then they are going to end up losing a whole lot of people for whom there's simply nothing more left to do that seems like fun. I'm close to that point now, having played through career, visited every body multiple times, made various types of space planes, done stuff like Jool5, and plotted low-dV courses to different bodies, etc. I feel like there's still a whole lot of potential for developing this game platform into something as content-rich for experienced  players as it is fun to learn for beginners, but I don't see all of that coming from modders. Being able to do the same old, now thoroughly boring missions on my Xbox as well as my PC offers me no incentive to buy anything more from Squad whatsoever, and I suspect that they will find their console sales of the current game disappointing for this reason. I sure hope that drives them to conclude they need to come up with KSP2, but if instead they conclude that it's time to do something else instead, it will give me a big sad.

Edited June 13, 2016 by herbal space program

[MaxPeck]

I think it would go a long way if Squad could figure out a way to start integrating real-life missions into KSP and thus giving it a point.  They kinda did that with Asteroid day... but now real-world spaceflight is on the verge of really ramping up.  It would be awesome if Squad could start making more official mods in conjunction with the people doing this - i.e. a mod to replicate spaceX's landings, a mod to replicate some of the ISS stuff going on, various deep-space and planetary missions, etc.  I would even almost support the idea of DLC mission packs that are sanctioned by the actual bodies doing to the research.  Maybe even start a virtual mission patch collection or something.  This would provide an almost endless supply of new mission objectives, as players work to replicate what they see happening in the news, as well as provide more of an engineering/STEM focus to the game that's already kind of there, but very nascent.  

[Tw1]

14 hours ago, herbal space program said:

...whole lot of people for whom there's simply nothing more left to do that seems like fun. I'm close to that point now, having played through career, visited every body multiple times, made various types of space planes, done stuff like Jool5, and plotted low-dV courses to different bodies, etc. I feel like there's still a whole lot of potential for developing this game platform into something as content-rich for experienced  players as it is fun to learn for beginners, but I don't see all of that coming from modders.

We're starting to move off the original topic here, but this has been a big theme of some of us's rants on career for a long time now. 

The game has focused far too much on the ticking off of one time goals. The science collection, part and building unlocking, even the significance of one time historic firsts all give a save a finite experience. 

Instead, they should’ve focused on two other things: a rewarding space exploration experience, and keeping your space program going through good management of benifits vs costs. 

It would've been great if they'd followed a model like sims or simcity, where there's always something new to manage due to complex interactions within the City, (or between everything your space program has going on), and just watching and experiencing can be a joy in itself. 

 

Edited June 14, 2016 by Tw1

[klgraham1013]

2 hours ago, Tw1 said:

Instead, they should’ve focused on two other things: a rewarding space exploration experience, and keeping your space program going through good management of benifits vs costs.

Oh, what could have been.

[Corona688]

21 hours ago, herbal space program said:

Well that's a pretty depressing take on the game. If all they think they want to do is port it to Xbox so they can get more players of what they have now, then they are going to end up losing a whole lot of people for whom there's simply nothing more left to do that seems like fun. I'm close to that point now, having played through career, visited every body multiple times, made various types of space planes, done stuff like Jool5, and plotted low-dV courses to different bodies, etc.

That's just business.  Bluntly speaking, they might lose your participation, but they won't lose your money.  KSP isn't a subscription game (for which we're all very thankful) but this means they have to keep reaching out and finding more customers for development to pay for itself.  Once any game gets big enough porting seems to become a necessity...

Which is fine.  Not every game is an MMO.  I think I certainly got my money's worth, even if they stopped development right now, which they're not.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Corona688

[herbal space program]

17 minutes ago, Corona688 said:

That's just business.  Bluntly speaking, they might lose your participation, but they won't lose your money. 

It's certainly true they won't lose the 20 bucks I spent however many years ago, and it's just as true that I've already gotten a lot more out of the game than that 20 bucks' worth. It may also be true that a console port is the least work they can do to get more money out of the game the way it is now, but it's just as true that they can get another 50 bucks or more out of me (and many, many others) now if they just stick with it and populate this awesome playground they're created with some more content. I truly don't mean t to seem like I'm just complaining when I say that. What I'm doing is reminding them that I'm here with significantly more money than I spent in the first place, just waiting for them to give me a reason to spend it.

[wumpus]

9 hours ago, Tw1 said:

We're starting to move off the original topic here, but this has been a big theme of some of us's rants on career for a long time now. 

The game has focused far too much on the ticking off of one time goals. The science collection, part and building unlocking, even the significance of one time historic firsts all give a save a finite experience. 

Instead, they should’ve focused on two other things: a rewarding space exploration experience, and keeping your space program going through good management of benifits vs costs. 

It would've been great if they'd followed a model like sims or simcity, where there's always something new to manage due to complex interactions within the City, (or between everything your space program has going on), and just watching and experiencing can be a joy in itself. 

 

Well, if you can pull that off you have KSP  2.0.  I feel that whoever replaces HarvesteR had better understand gaming (rockets, gravity, simulations and programming are pretty much done.  Career mode and good gaming systems are another thing).  Once career mode is "done", such a game designer could presumably start a KSP 2.0 built from Kerbin up to make a better career mode (instead of the ideal sandbox that HarvesteR made).

Personally: I suspect I'd rather play the .18 demo than play such a KSP 2.0 game, but that is likely because I'd rather play Squad's demo than nearly any other game published.  KSP 2.0 (sim rocket program) might very well be a great game on its own.

[pandaman]

Having read recent devnotes etc. I am optimistic for the future of KSP.

Yes of course it is always a bit 'sad' to see old established team members move on (and Felipe in particular is of course far more than just that), but I do get a sense of 'new life' from the recent devnotes.

Whilst taking nothing away from the efforts and amazing achievements of those that have moved on, and those that will in times to come, I for one am looking at the changes with a positive perspective for what the future holds.

Edited June 15, 2016 by pandaman