RC-L01 (2.5m Probe Core) Needs Revamp

[Aegolius13]

I think there needs to be some redesign on the RC-L01, which is the 2.5m probe, a/k/a Remote Guidance Unit.  I must say I love its little brother, the RC-001S - the latter is my go-to probe core for most ships (both manned and unmanned) due to full SAS functionality.  Unfortunately, the bigger RGU is inferior in almost every way.  It's much heavier (0.5 tons vs 0.1), uses more electricity, and has only tiny improvements in SAS torque and electricity storage.

Apart from looking bad next to its little brother, the RC-L01 is also completely eclipsed by both the new HECS-2, and even the Mk2 drone core.  Both feature substantially more battery storage and torque, for much lower mass.   The Mk2 is even pretty competitive in cost.  The HECS-2 costs more, but I guess you pay for the ease of not needing separate batteries and reaction wheels, as well as the "cool factor."  And truth be told, I don't care much about spending a small amount more on my spiffy resuable ships or interplanetary craft.    

Thus, it seems the only real reason you'd ever currently use the RC-L01 is if you have a 2.5m stack and absolutely no place to put a 1.25m probe core.  But that's seldom the case - even on bigger ships I almost always have a tapered front end, with a medium docking port or the like in front, where a probe core could fit.  Heck, if you had no other options you could put in a 2.5m service bay, put NOTHING in it but the smaller RGU, and STILL come out ahead mass-wise.  

It seems like there are two decent solutions.  The first, more humdrum one, is to just reduce the mass and power consumption to be more in line with the smaller RGU.  Basically, imagine the Kerbal engineers took the little one, and did nothing more with it than encased it in an adapter to fit the 2.5m form factor.  Since we have some pretty darn light 2.5m parts (Rockmax adapters, Z4k battery, big reaction wheel), it's apparent "in world" that just building a thin disk to the 2.5m form factor should not add a ton of weight.  

The second option, which I'd endorse, is to leave the  RC-L01 somewhat heavy, and maybe increase the cost, but add some better features to balance it out.  More electricity storage and torque would be goods starts, again to make this competitive with the OKTO-2 as a one-stop solution for several needs.  But there are probably more interesting options as well.  Maybe a little monopropellant, like with the manned command modules?  It's a pain to have to lug even the tiny-sized monopropellant tank if you want to dock an unmanned craft.  Built-in static solar panels or RCS thrusters?  Something brand-new?  

At the end of the day I don't really care if it's not the more practical part ever, but it should at least be interesting and not all-around worse than previous parts.  It's an end-line part that takes 1,000 science to get.  That alone should demand a cool factor, and right now it's just not there.    

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2016 by Aegolius13

[NoMrBond]

It's already getting a revamp as part of the KSP 1.2 Probe and Telemetry feature

It was discussed on last weeks (not this weeks) Squadcast from memory, they had RoverDude answering questions about it for about half the stream

[NoMrBond]

This one;

https://www.twitch.tv/ksptv/v/72827858

[Aegolius13]

Thanks for the link, very interesting stuff that I was not aware is coming.  But not quite sure I understand -- are they saying the RGUs are just going to be relays from  now on, or are also going to retain their probe core functionality?

If they're just relays, I would be sad to lose the little RGU, since as mentioned above I use it all the time (and am surprised the Squad folks are saying it's underused). It's small, not that heavy, not that expensive, easy to fit in almost any design, and definitely more subdued aesthetics-wise than the OKTO-2.

[Alshain]

25 minutes ago, Aegolius13 said:

Thanks for the link, very interesting stuff that I was not aware is coming.  But not quite sure I understand -- are they saying the RGUs are just going to be relays from  now on, or are also going to retain their probe core functionality?

If they're just relays, I would be sad to lose the little RGU, since as mentioned above I use it all the time (and am surprised the Squad folks are saying it's underused). It's small, not that heavy, not that expensive, easy to fit in almost any design, and definitely more subdued aesthetics-wise than the OKTO-2.

No, an RGU is required to create a relay, but the RGU itself will not likely change at all (or only in minor ways to support the relay, probably added tweakables).  That wouldn't make sense anyway as the telemetry system is optional and it would effectively be just removing probe cores.  Someone ( @RoverDude ?) can correct me if I'm wrong, but that was my understanding of it.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Alshain

[RoverDude]

@Alshain - what exactly is the question?

[Alshain]

1 minute ago, RoverDude said:

@Alshain - what exactly is the question?

I think he was asking if the Telemetry system (i.e. requiring the RGU probe cores for relays) will result in any functional changes in the way they currently behave on non-relay craft.

[RoverDude]

By RGU you mean the inline 1.25 and 2.5 cores?

 

[legoclone09]

Just now, RoverDude said:

By RGU you mean the inline 1.25 and 2.5 cores?

 

Yeah he does.

[RoverDude]

Ok thanks.  They are fine as is, they just have the extra capability of being able to allow a kerbal pilot to use them as the computational core of a new control point.

[Alshain]

7 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

By RGU you mean the inline 1.25 and 2.5 cores?

 

Yes, sorry.  Those two are only ones with "Remote Guidance Unit" in their name so I abbreviated it.

[Aegolius13]

 

On 6/24/2016 at 10:41 AM, Alshain said:

No, an RGU is required to create a relay, but the RGU itself will not likely change at all (or only in minor ways to support the relay, probably added tweakables). 

Revisiting this now in 1.2 -- from what I can tell, the Remote Guidance Units did not end up playing a role in the relay system.  Which means the large Remote Guidance unit is still completely useless.   Or is there some other new feature of the big RGU?

 

EDIT: I see the big RGU is "multihop capable."  Guess this has something to do with letting a pilot operate a probe remotely.  So I guess there is now at least one advantage.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Aegolius13

[Jonfliesgoats]

There is a Squadcast?

[Alshain]

7 hours ago, Aegolius13 said:

 

Revisiting this now in 1.2 -- from what I can tell, the Remote Guidance Units did not end up playing a role in the relay system.  Which means the large Remote Guidance unit is still completely useless.   Or is there some other new feature of the big RGU?

 

EDIT: I see the big RGU is "multihop capable."  Guess this has something to do with letting a pilot operate a probe remotely.  So I guess there is now at least one advantage.

Yeah it changed from the original design.  You need the RGU to pilot an unmanned craft remotely from a manned craft, but not for the relay itself.